Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Patsfanin Philly]

It is interesting that in the very beginning of this, myself, along with a few others were pointing out how clearly obvious it was that the traffic stop after the first visit was illegal. Cops break protocol all the time. It doesn't even make them bad cops either. It's all about what you can get away with. In this situation, they will very likely not get away with it.

I can see a problem with Kraft’s argument that traffic stop identification should be tossed. Fruit of poisonous tree allows evidence obtained illegally to be used if it would have been discovered by other means. If I were the prosecutor, I would argue that Kraft is a well known figure and millions of people would recognize him from video alone. After, the day of the stop, he was seen by tens of millions of people hoisting the Lamar Hunt trophy...after AFC championship game.
I still think he gets the video sealed ... just not by this reason

 

[PatriotsReign]

Also, you have it mixed up.

They didn’t arrest 50 guys and say it’s related to trafficking, they suspected trafficking, got a warrant, investigated and along the way arrested 50 guys for soliciting prostitution. Whether or not they can make the trafficking case the suspicion of it is why they were there.

Human trafficking is a racketeering charge which by law, requires federal investigation. The feds never got involved due to lack of evidence

Racketeering falls under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, commonly referred to as RICO, which legal experts say is a charge often used for human trafficking cases.

 

[Antdawg]

One thing that I've learned while reading this entire thread is how some here have a very low opinion of the honesty of law enforcement. I wonder why.

Because law enforcement and prosecutors have a long, documented history of stretching the truth, outright lies and omission of key facts the defense is supposed to be privy to?

And as I've mentioned, I'm generally sympathetic to law enforcement. But when it's abundantly clear they are wasting all this time, money and resources on something so trivial as a consensual BJ inside a private dwelling, they're going to get even more scrutiny from me when it comes to following proper protocol.

 

[Tony2046]

Someone out there still believes anything that AndyJohnson posts?

I do.

He has been pretty much on the money thus far.

Respectfully imo.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Show me evidence that it was a false claim to get the warrant. That would change everything but there is no evidence of that.
Sorry “my friend thinks” doesn’t cut it

Please link that, I’d like to read it.

Tell you what, show us that the feds were involved

 

[Ring 6]

Police officer KNOW protocol. The fact is, those arrests never would have happened if there was a human trafficking investigation going on

That is not a fact. That is an opinion.
Why would you not arrest the Johns?

 

[PatriotsReign]

While the prostitution sting was said to be part of a crackdown on human and sex trafficking, TMZ Sports reported that nothing has turned up in that regard five months into the investigation. Also, the FBI and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) opted against getting involved in the investigation because of a lack of evidence.

You can attack the source, but the comment on the feds is the truth. If this human trafficking angle had legs, the feds would be involved

 

[Ring 6]

Tell you what, show us that the feds were involved

That’s an odd answer to you make a statement and md asking to direct to where I can read more.
Did you make it up? Why wouldn’t you provide the link?

FYI, nice job trying to ask to prove a negative. Clearly you aren’t interested in a real discussion you think you are trying to win debate points. Jesus. This place.

 

[venecol]

I feel this is subterfuge.
The issue isn’t whether they were able to make a case to prosecute trafficking. An investigation that doesn’t produce arrests is not an illegal investigation.
The standard is probable cause not ultimate proof.
If in fact the warrant was based upon suspicion of trafficking which basically every report says it was the standard is that there was a reasonable judgment of probably cause to suspect trafficking. Not that ultimately that suspicion proved to be correct.
Trafficking has nothing to do with kraft, other than he was arrested as a consequence of an investigation and the basis of that investigation was trafficking. If there was enough proof that trafficking could be occurring the warrant is valid whether the investigation turns out to show trafficking or not.

If kraft were charged with sneaking in the back door and stealing a 20 out of the cash register because it was surveilled in the investigation, his case would also be contingent upon whether the trafficking warrant was legitimate because the evidence against him was a result of the trafficking warrant even though his crime would have had absolutely nothing to do with trafficking. The evidence is only available because of the warrant. Bad warrant=inadmissible tape.

Lmao, you are starting to sound hysterical. Your twisted reasoning is based on what you believe to be "common sense" or some sort of layman's "logic." Your attempts of acting like Perry Mason are laughable. You better let this play out and sit back and learn.

Your recent position is that until there are facts you are sticking with what is known. What is known is the story being told by the cops (which by the way doesn't match the records). However, you fail to acknowledge that what is known may not necessarily be factual. You accuse others of making stuff up but you don't have any more facts than anyone else to defend your position other than a one sided view of the case which is just very lazy and lacks imagination. The possibility of subterfuge coming from the cops to obtain the warrants never occurred to you? Of course not, cops wear white hats, why would they lie?

 

[Antdawg]

If I were the prosecutor, I would argue that Kraft is a well known figure and millions of people would recognize him from video alone. After, the day of the stop, he was seen by tens of millions of people hoisting the Lamar Hunt trophy...after AFC championship game.

By that logic, R. Kelly would have been rotting in prison for the past few years, but he is a free man. The prosecutors not only had tons of video on him, but a mountain of evidence about crimes that go waaaaaaaaaay beyond this mess with Kraft and they still didn't get a conviction.

In any event, I don't necessarily think Kraft is going to deny being at the spa. He's just going to deny offering monetary compensation for sexual favors. I could be wrong about this last part.

 

[PatriotsReign]

That is not a fact. That is an opinion.
Why would you not arrest the Johns?

No, it’s fact. Protocol is protocol and it’s universal in cases like this. You must know a police officer, ask him/her

 

[PatriotsReign]

That’s an odd answer to you make a statement and md asking to direct to where I can read more.
Did you make it up? Why wouldn’t you provide the link?

FYI, nice job trying to ask to prove a negative. Clearly you aren’t interested in a real discussion you think you are trying to win debate points. Jesus. This place.

I just posted it Andy, calm down.

 

[Ring 6]

Human trafficking is a racketeering charge which by law, requires federal investigation. The feds never got involved due to lack of evidence

There was a federal racketeering charge in the larger case, and homelands security is involved.

 

[Ring 6]

No, it’s fact. Protocol is protocol and it’s universal in cases like this. You must know a police officer, ask him/her

You are confused about what a fact is. A police officer saying no one would prosecute the John during a trafficking investigation is flat out opinion.

 

[PatriotsReign]

There was a federal racketeering charge in the larger case, and homelands security is involved.

We’re discussing the spa Kraft went to. The feds refused to get involved

 

[Ring 6]

I just posted it Andy, calm down.

I’m calm as could be.

 

[PatriotsReign]

You are confused about what a fact is. A police officer saying no one would prosecute the John during a trafficking investigation is flat out opinion.

No, it’s protocol. How many times do I have to tell you that?

If a mafia mob or a drug ring is being investigated, they don’t arrest member for small crimes because it blows their investigation

And they certainly don’t announce a wider investigation is on-going!

 

[Ring 6]

I just posted it Andy, calm down.

Oh Jesus “TMZ said”.
That’s less proof than “my friend thinks”

 

[PatriotsReign]

I’m calm as could be.

No Andy, you’re not....and you look tired this morning!

 

[PatriotsReign]

Oh Jesus “TMZ said”.
That’s less proof than “my friend thinks”

No media can print things about the feds that aren’t true. The feds refused to get involved buddy