2019 Secondary

[mgteich]

Yes, we need to tender J Jones, and re-sign Jason McCourty. Given that, we go into the offseason with a strong unit.

CB: Gilmore, J McCourty, Jackson, Jones, Dawson, (Crossen)
S: McCourty, Chung, Harmon, Melifonwu
ST: Ebner

 

[signbabybrady]

I'd think JMac would be an easy resign. He's played well above expectations and at his age I doubt he gets bank. This comes down to what BB thinks of the kids as it might be more cap wise to rely on the youth. Either way the CB position seems to be in good hands.
Really the only thing the secondary needs is a young safety to start grooming as none of the 3 are spring chickens.

 

[maineman209]

Really the only thing the secondary needs is a young safety to start grooming as none of the 3 are spring chickens.

Could be Melifonwu. He's already received more D-snaps than I expected, and doesn't appear to have effed-up yet. If the Pat build a big lead on the 'Fins, we might see a lot of Melifonwu in place of Chung later in the game.

 

[signbabybrady]

Could be Melifonwu. He's already received more D-snaps than I expected, and doesn't appear to have effed-up yet. If the Pat build a big lead on the 'Fins, we might see a lot of Melifonwu in place of Chung later in the game.

I like Obi he seems like a decent project. He could fill that development role for the SS/big nickel. Then we only need a FS/deep cover development player. Both spots are starting to get old. Definitely neee to start development on one or both spots. Obi is just a start but if he works then we can likely get by in multiple ways if not then safety needs youth.

 

[mgteich]

I'd think JMac would be an easy resign. He's played well above expectations and at his age I doubt he gets bank. This comes down to what BB thinks of the kids as it might be more cap wise to rely on the youth. Either way the CB position seems to be in good hands.
Really the only thing the secondary needs is a young safety to start grooming as none of the 3 are spring chickens.

We drafted Dawson in the 2nd round to fill that role.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The only sure things for next year are Gilly, JC Jackson and Dawson.

There is a 99% chance Harmon is back. Only reason he is a question is they save a bunch if cut. Chung's production has dropped off but should be back. JMC could be caught up in the numbers with younger players. JJ is an RFA. DMC has a big ass cap hit. If he plays hardball, he could be gone. Who knows about Obi Wan Melon Fondu

 

[long distance]

We drafted Dawson in the 2nd round to fill that role.

While he has some S experience and versatility . this particular draft pick was primarily targeting slot defending that was a need. All practice reports confirmed that. IIRC he didn't practice at S. So if he was drafted to “fill“ any role it was slot CB (or slot DB if you like) and core ST of course.

Signing Obi is further sign the search for one or two safety spots for the future is very much ongoing and with letting Richards go I wouldn't be surprised if one of the high picks this coming draft was safety. Id also expect they bring one or two rookie FA safeties (with D.Jones, Travis gone) and if one of the vets doesn't come back for one reason or another . veteran free agent would certainly be an option on a cheap S market..

As for CBs Id expect BB to gather the most competitive group in the league once again for TC and go from there. Jaire Alexander was considered last yr so despite the emergence of JC, versatile potential of Crossen and possible extension of J-Macs career I wouldn't be surprised at another high CB pick - depending on how the cards there fall - plus a bunch of UDFAs that will start for other teams come next September as per usual.

BB is not leaving anything to chance at this position. Several teams only this year lost their seasons for lack of CB depth..

 

[mgteich]

fair enough

Belichick has ignored safety for a couple of years, since our safeties are so good. Obi wan is simply another use for the 4th emergency safety spot. I just don't see Belichick using significant resources on a #4 safety.

While he has some S experience and versatility . this particular draft pick was primarily targeting slot defending that was a need. All practice reports confirmed that. IIRC he didn't practice at S. So if he was drafted to “fill“ any role it was slot CB (or slot DB if you like) and core ST of course.

Signing Obi is further sign the search for one or two safety spots for the future is very much ongoing and with letting Richards go I wouldn't be surprised if one of the high picks this coming draft was safety. Id also expect they bring one or two rookie FA safeties (with D.Jones, Travis gone) and if one of the vets doesn't come back for one reason or another . veteran free agent would certainly be an option on a cheap S market..

As for CBs Id expect BB to gather the most competitive group in the league once again for TC and go from there. Jaire Alexander was considered last yr so despite the emergence of JC, versatile potential of Crossen and possible extension of J-Macs career I wouldn't be surprised at another high CB pick - depending on how the cards there fall - plus a bunch of UDFAs that will start for other teams come next September as per usual.

BB is not leaving anything to chance at this position. Several teams only this year lost their seasons for lack of CB depth..

 

[mgteich]

If we re-sign Jason, I would be shocked to see us using a high (1st 2 rounds) pick on a CB, unless we're already given up on Dawson.

After all, we have Jackson, Jones and Crossen in ADDITION to Gilmore, McCourty and Dawson.

While he has some S experience and versatility . this particular draft pick was primarily targeting slot defending that was a need. All practice reports confirmed that. IIRC he didn't practice at S. So if he was drafted to “fill“ any role it was slot CB (or slot DB if you like) and core ST of course.

Signing Obi is further sign the search for one or two safety spots for the future is very much ongoing and with letting Richards go I wouldn't be surprised if one of the high picks this coming draft was safety. Id also expect they bring one or two rookie FA safeties (with D.Jones, Travis gone) and if one of the vets doesn't come back for one reason or another . veteran free agent would certainly be an option on a cheap S market..

As for CBs Id expect BB to gather the most competitive group in the league once again for TC and go from there. Jaire Alexander was considered last yr so despite the emergence of JC, versatile potential of Crossen and possible extension of J-Macs career I wouldn't be surprised at another high CB pick - depending on how the cards there fall - plus a bunch of UDFAs that will start for other teams come next September as per usual.

BB is not leaving anything to chance at this position. Several teams only this year lost their seasons for lack of CB depth..

 

[maineman209]

The only sure things for next year are Gilly, JC Jackson and Dawson.

There is a 99% chance Harmon is back. Only reason he is a question is they save a bunch if cut. Chung's production has dropped off but should be back. JMC could be caught up in the numbers with younger players. JJ is an RFA. DMC has a big ass cap hit. If he plays hardball, he could be gone. Who knows about Obi Wan Melon Fondu

Harmon turns 28 in January, and is under contract thru 2020, with cap hits of $4.5M and $5.5M. The Pats save $2M off the 2019 cap if they cut him in the spring.

 

[maineman209]

As far as I'm concerned, Obi and Duke are still in the "yet-to-be-proven potential" stage. We'll have to wait and see how they work out.

I've lost a bit of confidence in Crossen for the defense, though he seems to be working out okay on ST.

That leaves Gilmore, Jackson, JJ (RFA) and JMac (if re-signed) as the only "knowns" at CB, plus the threes veteran safeties, but that's not at all a shabby base to build from.

 

[mcmurtry86]

D.McCourty needs to be restructured or cut. He’s a good safety who is in decline and has an extremely high cap hit next year

Given all the other issues the team has to deal with this offseason and the lack of money to do it, I expect some changes in the secondary

 

[mgteich]

.
That leaves Gilmore, Jackson, JJ (RFA) and JMac (if re-signed) as the only "knowns" at CB, plus the threes veteran safeties, but that's not at all a shabby base to build from.

Only 4 known quality quantities at CB and 3 top safeties? I'd be fine if no one else got any reps at all.

 

[luuked]

D.McCourty needs to be restructured or cut. He’s a good safety who is in decline and has an extremely high cap hit next year

Given all the other issues the team has to deal with this offseason and the lack of money to do it, I expect some changes in the secondary

Not sure whats funnier. You saying he is in decline or calling him a safety.

 

[long distance]

If we re-sign Jason, I would be shocked to see us using a high (1st 2 rounds) pick on a CB, unless we're already given up on Dawson.

After all, we have Jackson, Jones and Crossen in ADDITION to Gilmore, McCourty and Dawson.

Id guess you were shocked when they brought in Gilmore for top money and even more shocked learning they kept a solid offer to keep Butler as well.

I don't think anyone has earned the #2 CB spot for 2019. I don't think anyone can in Dec 2018. If opportunity presents itself to add another potential “lock down“ corner via Draft I wouldn't be shocked at all if they go for it even with the solid base you listed. Id prefer top DL this time but CBs seem to have highest priority in building BB D. It has nothing to do with “giving up“ on others but creating the best competition possible for crucial position.

Pats are obviously doing great work with lower seed CBs but that doesn't mean BB won't take opportunity to bring a top CB or prospect if he thinks the price is right.

If Baker f.e. is there when Pats pick I wouldn't be shocked at all if they take him..

 

[mgteich]

Apparently you don't think much of Jason McCourty.

I would be shocked to have us have top corner in Gilmore, re-sign McCourty, and then sign a top corner, even though we have developing youth in Jackson and Jones 9and perhaps even Dawson)

Id guess you were shocked when they brought in Gilmore for top money and even more shocked learning they kept a solid offer to keep Butler as well.

I don't think anyone has earned the #2 CB spot for 2019. I don't think anyone can in Dec 2018. If opportunity presents itself to add another potential “lock down“ corner via Draft I wouldn't be shocked at all if they go for it even with the solid base you listed. Id prefer top DL this time but CBs seem to have highest priority in building BB D. It has nothing to do with “giving up“ on others but creating the best competition possible for crucial position.

Pats are obviously doing great work with lower seed CBs but that doesn't mean BB won't take opportunity to bring a top CB or prospect if he thinks the price is right.

If Baker f.e. is there when Pats pick I wouldn't be shocked at all if they take him..

 

[maineman209]

Apparently you don't think much of Jason McCourty.

I would be shocked to have us have top corner in Gilmore, re-sign McCourty, and then sign a top corner, even though we have developing youth in Jackson and Jones 9and perhaps even Dawson)

It seems to me that the line between safety and corner assignments in BB's schemes is pretty murky. To a significant degree, a top college corner is a top college "DB" who, if he's good enough, probably ends up playing some mix of corner and safety, like Jason and Devin both have been this season. So, then a top college CB has the potential to make the starting secondary younger in more than one role.

 

[mgteich]

I don't understand your point. The way I see it, if we re-sign Jason and tender Jones, we will have no need to spend significant resources on a top college DB. We'll have 7 quality defensive backs, plus a2nd rounder who should at least have some potential (certainly enough not to replace him as yet). That doesn't even count our #9 and #10, Obiwan and Crossen. So, sure, I can see us drafting a defensive back in the 4th or later, and adding camp competition. I just can't see the need to use significant resources.

It seems to me that the line between safety and corner assignments in BB's schemes is pretty murky. To a significant degree, a top college corner is a top college "DB" who, if he's good enough, probably ends up playing some mix of corner and safety, like Jason and Devin both have been this season. So, then a top college CB has the potential to make the starting secondary younger in more than one role.

 

[cstjohn17]

Yes, we need to tender J Jones, and re-sign Jason McCourty. Given that, we go into the offseason with a strong unit.

CB: Gilmore, J McCourty, Jackson, Jones, Dawson, (Crossen)
S: McCourty, Chung, Harmon, Melifonwu
ST: Ebner

Good points, the secondary has been better than expected, I could see a scenario where both McCourties are gone and a younger Safety is brought in. Both Chung and Dmac are getting old and expensive.

 

[supafly]

I don't understand your point. The way I see it, if we re-sign Jason and tender Jones, we will have no need to spend significant resources on a top college DB. We'll have 7 quality defensive backs, plus a2nd rounder who should at least have some potential (certainly enough not to replace him as yet). That doesn't even count our #9 and #10, Obiwan and Crossen. So, sure, I can see us drafting a defensive back in the 4th or later, and adding camp competition. I just can't see the need to use significant resources.

I think one can make an argument that they can and will explore all secondary options, especially if the right player is available. I don’t think you can necessarily pass up on a top round talent for the next 4-5 yrs because you have an aging Jason McCourty or a freaking Jonathan Jones as an RFA. Either of those are fine depth options for the right price, but they are not players to build your team around, either.

(In my opinion) Here’s how your list should go:

Near locks: Gilmore, Dawson, Jackson, and 2/3 of DMac, Chung, and Harmon

Players that may/may not be here (some of which aren’t even under contract for ‘19): JMac, Crossen, Jones, Obiwan