Bruce Irvin cut by Raiders

[RobertWeathers]

Wise is being deployed primarily in a situational rotation with Clayborn on the right edge. In seven games, Wise has more snaps (224), than Clayborn has had in eight (205).

Wise has 12 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 1 pressure, 1 QBH, has forced 1 hold and is credited with a run stuff.
Clayborn has 7 tackles, 2 sacks, 11 QBH, 4 pressures and has forced 2 holds.

Simon and Davis have both been fairly productive in limited snaps as rotational/relief guys on both the right and left (Flowers') edges.

Simon is a 5-year veteran who has played standup OLB and DE in 2-gapping 3-4 defenses. He just turned 28. His cap hit for salary and weekly roster bonuses over the next 8 games is $400k.

Great info but it's not enough production to justify the thought of Irvin not helping.

 

[maineman209]

Yep. They need more playmaking for sure

Simon has 8 tackles, 1 sacks and 1 QBH in just 38 D-snaps so far.

 

[maineman209]

Great info but it's not enough production to justify the thought of Irvin not helping.

I'm not trying to justify anything, merely trying to provide context.

 

[italian pat patriot]

mmm...not so thrilled honestly...

 

[Todd Bradley]

Sign the beast

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm not trying to justify anything, merely trying to provide context.

Yea my comment was more directed towards BB thinking what he had was enough. Sorry.

I have no idea if Irvin can play here or not. What I do know is they need more talent on D.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I get why they are trying to develop Davis and Rivers as Flowers might be gone and Clayborn has basically a 1 year deal They need more experience on the edge, the pass rush and vs the run. Kinda like what Harrison gave them last year. Wise is part-time but decent.

I’d be shocked if Flowers were able to get a ton of money on the open market. What I mean by that is anything over $10M per year. His calling card is being an edge defender but doesn’t exactly scare anyone rushing the passer. In addition, he gets banged up a lot. He’s a great complementary guy on the line but I find it hard to believe he gets top dollar to be the guy at DE. Funny how coaches will defend players to the media and justify their low sack totals until it’s time for an extension.

 

[maineman209]

Yea my comment was more directed towards BB thinking what he had was enough. Sorry.

I have no idea if Irvin can play here or not. What I do know is they need more talent on D.

I'm waiting to see how much Simon can contribute once he's fully recovered from his shoulder injury. I'm also waiting to see if Davis can continue to develop and contribute more over time (not that anyone seems to have given up on Rivers).

Irvin (6030/250, very good pre-draft testing numbers) appears to have had the appropriate experience for an edge role in the Pats schemes.

Simon (6014/260 with solid testing numbers) missed 7 games for Indy last season: 3 games with a mid-season neck injury before being IR'd for the last four games with a shoulder injury.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I’d be shocked if Flowers were able to get a ton of money on the open market. What I mean by that is anything over $10M per year. His calling card is being an edge defender but doesn’t exactly scare anyone rushing the passer. In addition, he gets banged up a lot. He’s a great complementary guy on the line but I find it hard to believe he gets top dollar to be the guy at DE. Funny how coaches will defend players to the media and justify their low sack totals until it’s time for an extension.

I really don't have a feel for what Flowers can fetch on the open market. It could be a situation where the NEP value him more than other teams do. I agree he not an elite pass rusher therefore isn't going to get Chandler Jones money but even if its say $12m AAV w/ $35m in guarantees is that more than the NEP think he is worth....or is it about right? No clue.

All it takes is another team (DET, TN, HOU) to elevate the market for the player.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm waiting to see how much Simon can contribute once he's fully recovered from his shoulder injury. I'm also waiting to see if Davis can continue to develop and contribute more over time (not that anyone seems to have given up on Rivers).

Irvin (6030/250, very good pre-draft testing numbers) appears to have had the appropriate experience for an edge role in the Pats schemes.

Simon (6014/260 with solid testing numbers) missed 7 games for Indy last season: 3 games with a mid-season neck injury before being IR'd for the last four games with a shoulder injury.

Yea thats my issue with these guys. For various reasons they haven't emerged like Flowers did in 2016. If one of those players played at that level I wouldn't be lobbying for help.

I'm not suggesting they be waived but their snaps given to players (Irvin?) who are more impact-players.

 

[maineman209]

Yea thats my issue with these guys. For various reasons they haven't emerged like Flowers did in 2016. If one of those players played at that level I wouldn't be lobbying for help.

I'm not suggesting they be waived but their snaps given to players (Irvin?) who are more impact-players.

Someone would need to be waived, or sent to IR, to make room for Irvin. Irvin doesn't officially go on waivers until Monday (the Raiders didn't actually make the transaction in time on Saturday), so we probably won't know if a team with higher claiming priority than the Pats has snagged him until later Tuesday. If he's not claimed at a $3.756M cap hit, the Pats might try to sign him for something less on Wednesday. Meanwhile, Simon hist the cap for only $400k.

It's possible that Ferentz is waived back to the PS Tuesday or Wednesday, depending on the status of Schwenke and Mason, so that would be a temporary solution. But then, another spot would need to be made for Dawson by Nov. 13th, and possibly yet another for Burkhead by Dec. 4th or 5th (if he's designated for return and begins practicing the week of Nov. 13th).

Davis effectively missed a full year of football with his bulging disk (beginning with the 2017 Combine), so not being an impact player yet isn't surprising.

Simon had an immediate positive impact with five tackles and a sack in his first game with the team (MIA, wk-4). He also set the edge well. So, it's possible that Irvin could, too (though not certain).

OTOH, it's a question of value. Will Irvin be certain to make a larger enough impact than Simon in the Pats scheme to justify the added expense beyond $400k?

 

[HailHydra]

The part about being a complementary player isn't relevant since he wouldn't be a premier pass rusher here. Trey Flowers is without question a Top 10 DE in the league, despite not piling up sacks (we are near the top of the league in pressures but not sacks), so he would afford Bruce Irvin more chances to shine.

On that note... I really do hope we resign Trey Flowers.

 

[Ring 6]

I’d be shocked if Flowers were able to get a ton of money on the open market. What I mean by that is anything over $10M per year. His calling card is being an edge defender but doesn’t exactly scare anyone rushing the passer. In addition, he gets banged up a lot. He’s a great complementary guy on the line but I find it hard to believe he gets top dollar to be the guy at DE. Funny how coaches will defend players to the media and justify their low sack totals until it’s time for an extension.

He will demand a lot of money because he is a complete player. Some teams look at sack numbers only, the smart ones evaluate players.

 

[zipster9]

Someone would need to be waived, or sent to IR, to make room for Irvin. Irvin doesn't officially go on waivers until Monday (the Raiders didn't actually make the transaction in time on Saturday), so we probably won't know if a team with higher claiming priority than the Pats has snagged him until later Tuesday. If he's not claimed at a $3.756M cap hit, the Pats might try to sign him for something less on Wednesday. Meanwhile, Simon hist the cap for only $400k.

It's possible that Ferentz is waived back to the PS Tuesday or Wednesday, depending on the status of Schwenke and Mason, so that would be a temporary solution. But then, another spot would need to be made for Dawson by Nov. 13th, and possibly yet another for Burkhead by Dec. 4th or 5th (if he's designated for return and begins practicing the week of Nov. 13th).

Davis effectively missed a full year of football with his bulging disk (beginning with the 2017 Combine), so not being an impact player yet isn't surprising.

Simon had an immediate positive impact with five tackles and a sack in his first game with the team (MIA, wk-4). He also set the edge well. So, it's possible that Irvin could, too (though not certain).

OTOH, it's a question of value. Will Irvin be certain to make a larger enough impact than Simon in the Pats scheme to justify the added expense beyond $400k?

IMO - Irvin will be claimed before Patriots can get a chance... If luck goes Patriots way, he can be a nice 1/2-yr rental.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Irvin would be a nice mid-season get for us if he clears waivers.

 

[Ring 6]

I think Irvin is very overrated and would be shocked if we claimed him on his ridiculous salary. Maybe we try to sign him for a vet minimum type deal if no one claims him, but I’d rather have Simon.

 

[maineman209]

IMO - Irvin will be claimed before Patriots can get a chance... If luck goes Patriots way, he can be a nice 1/2-yr rental.

I'd think that the (unlikely) ideal situation for the Pats would be if Irvin goes unclaimed and the Pats can avoid the $3.756M cap hit for this season and the $9M cap hit for next season, and then have the opportunity to try to sign him for ~$1M + incentives for the remainder of 2018, with an option on 2019.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The part about being a complementary player isn't relevant since he wouldn't be a premier pass rusher here. Trey Flowers is without question a Top 10 DE in the league, despite not piling up sacks (we are near the top of the league in pressures but not sacks), so he would afford Bruce Irvin more chances to shine.

On that note... I really do hope we resign Trey Flowers.

I’m not a fan of that “pressure” stat as the eye test says their pass rush hasn’t been very good. What does that person define as “pressure” anyway?

He will demand a lot of money because he is a complete player. Some teams look at sack numbers only, the smart ones evaluate players.

Hard to justify paying someone over $10M a year for an edge defender in a passing league. He’s a #2 guy. I say say he gets no more than $10M per year.

 

[farn]

I think Irvin is very overrated and would be shocked if we claimed him on his ridiculous salary. Maybe we try to sign him for a vet minimum type deal if no one claims him, but I’d rather have Simon.

Maybe it isn’t all about « would rather have ». I always fear injuries and if Irvin can help, and they can make the $ work, I’m all for it.

DL often fall during the season. Let’s just get talent in here and I’m confident BB can use that talent to help the team win. Especially if one or two of the current players has a mishap...

 

[maineman209]

Irvin would be a nice mid-season get for us if he clears waivers.

OTOH, the tweet is from Jason La Can'tafforda real crystal ball.