2018 Training Camp Thread - Day 14* (8/14/18)

[PatsFan2]

Yikes.

Beat me to it Kontra.

 

[Joey007]

I can see a trade coming but im not sure for who.
Laquan Treadwell?

Terrelle Pryor is not getting along great in NY. We’ve had interest in him in the past.

 

[Love The Drake]

Terrelle Pryor is not getting along great in NY. We’ve had interest in him in the past.

I think that ship might have sailed.
But who knows.
I was surprised we didnt bring him in.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Lol I'm not sure why people do it to themselves.

The guy is who he is.

It's like when people people say Brady will make him better. Brady doesn't complete a WR. He utilizes their skills a lot better than most.

Huge difference than "making" someone better. Sure he can help them in the film room. Get them acclimated to the offense a bit. But the guy isn't a WR/TE coach.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Also if we bring anyone in I doubt it's a young guy that hasn't caught on w another team. Not at this stage.

 

[Sicilian]

I think I'm being realistic.

I just don't think they are that great and they dont need them to be.

Assuming health the receptions on offense in 2018 will come from Jules, Gronk, Hogs, Hollister, White and Burkhead.

Jules- 70 catches
Gronk- 70 catches
Hogs- 60
White- 60
Hollister- 50
Burkhead- 40

Thats 350 right there. The remaining will go to Patterson, Sony and others.

To be fair, someone recently (Maineman maybe?) did a breakdown of the last ten years or so, and the top targets have always been a combination or 2 WR, a TE, and a RB, with the fifth target varying between the three (no consistent preferred fifth option). I think for me what you've listed will be just fine, the concern becomes one of depth.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Doug Baldwin was a guy i always liked but he’s making some money through 2020.

 

[PatsFan2]

I can see a trade coming but im not sure for who.
Laquan Treadwell?

Then BB have lost it...Laquan Treadwell looks like another Cordarrelle Patterson Offensively no thanks.

 

[bormio]

I think I'm being realistic.

I just don't think they are that great and they dont need them to be.

Assuming health the receptions on offense in 2018 will come from Jules, Gronk, Hogs, Hollister, White and Burkhead.

Jules- 70 catches
Gronk- 70 catches
Hogs- 60
White- 60
Hollister- 50
Burkhead- 40

Thats 350 right there. The remaining will go to Patterson, Sony and others.

Might hit some of those #s, if we hit even 5/6 I would be amazed and 4/6 might be pushing it.

 

[goheels22002]

Care to explain the 'funny rating' about Amendola? Do you think it wasn't a mistake?

I love Danny Amendola and I don't think it was a mistake. The reason the Patriots have been competitive for 18 years is that they don't fall in love with their older veterans.

Put the shoe on your other foot. What would you be saying if the Patriots went out and signed a 31-year-old punt returner and slot receiver?

Besides, Amendola was not about to take another Patriots-friendly deal, so he jumped at the best offer. This was a two-way street. Amendola looked at his situation and correctly concluded that he was about to sign his last NFL contract. He was not going to get $12 million from the Patriots for any length of time. I have no problem with what either side elected to do.

 

[signbabybrady]

Before I dissect this post any further, where did I ask for All-Pro talent at WR?

All I'm trying to say is you can trade Gronk and Edelman for any combo of 2 WR/TE heck even include RB. You have to trade both and both players in return have to come from the same team. What trade are you actually doing?

Our problems with weapons for Brady is greatly exaggerated. We have 2 of the best options in the NFL and there are maybe a handful of teams in the whole NFL that could even put a package together that I would consider in a trade for these guys.

 

[Ring 6]

I think I'm being realistic.

I just don't think they are that great and they dont need them to be.

Assuming health the receptions on offense in 2018 will come from Jules, Gronk, Hogs, Hollister, White and Burkhead.

Jules- 70 catches
Gronk- 70 catches
Hogs- 60
White- 60
Hollister- 50
Burkhead- 40

Thats 350 right there. The remaining will go to Patterson, Sony and others.

I’d hate to think we are relying on a TE2 a backup RB and White to catch 150 passes.

I don’t see Hollister getting that much attention, I’d cut him down around 20-ish, and Burkhead in the sand area and put whoever emerge as WR3 in the 40 range, and increase gronk/Edelman.

 

[BobDigital]

How do you know he will be good here?

How do you know he would take $6m?

Both good questions. The short answers are I don't and I don't. I don't know to a certainty that he will be good here. I don't know to a certainty that a 6M/1yr contract will do it.

We don't know if anyone will be good here before they are here. That goes for WRs, TEs, RBs, DL. LB. CB and any other position you can think of. The Patriots do things slightly different than any other team. Perhaps some positions translate easier than others but nothing is promised.

Did we know that Cooks, Amendola, Welker, Moss, Patten, Hogan be good here? No. Does that mean they shouldn't have tried it? No.

Did we need know that Chad Johnson, Joey Galloway would be bad here? No. Does that mean they shouldn't have tried it? No.

Every time you sign a guy you take a risk. I am saying they should take a risk. Here is what I know. No WR they have every signed to my recollection failed here and succeed after leaving. If someone did then please team me who it is.

Right now I have zero reason to think that a WR whose any good won't work here, as none every failed who were decent. Maybe Dez would fail to work here. I honestly have no idea. But so could anyone else including FAs and draft picks.

As for the 6M. That is a guess. If he is still a FA at this point so I imagine he would go down in price. If someone was willing to pay him the big bucks it would have happened by now i'm sure.

 

[Kontradiction]

All I'm trying to say is you can trade Gronk and Edelman for any combo of 2 WR/TE heck even include RB. You have to trade both and both players in return have to come from the same team. What trade are you actually doing?

Our problems with weapons for Brady is greatly exaggerated. We have 2 of the best options in the NFL and there are maybe a handful of teams in the whole NFL that could even put a package together that I would consider in a trade for these guys.

That's all well and good, but the problem is that those two have very long, very documented injury histories and if either of them get injured this season, there isn't anything in the way of quality coming in behind them. 2016 was ultimately what you want. You don't need all-pros but you do need something of quality. The team still had Edelman, but the burden wasn't totally on him. They also had Hogan, Amendola, and a healthy Mitchell. That was a roster that was very deep at the skill positions and it needed to be because 2015 was another situation where the depth behind the main guys was merely meh at best and it was a disaster once Edelman went down.

Right now, they have Dorsett (bust to date), Patterson (Brady hasn't even looked at him in quite some time in practice and was brought in in the first place for his return abilities), Decker (on his last legs and is having trouble getting separation), McCarron (PS last year), Berrios (undersized rookie), and Britt (can't even get on the field and has dealt with injuries his entire career).

 

[RobertWeathers]

I’d hate to think we are relying on a TE2 a backup RB and White to catch 150 passes.

I don’t see Hollister getting that much attention, I’d cut him down around 20-ish, and Burkhead in the sand area and put whoever emerge as WR3 in the 40 range, and increase gronk/Edelman.

Burkhead caught 30 balls last year and missed a bunch of time.

White catches 50 balls in his sleep.

I see Hollister as an H-back move TE. I think hes gonna play at least 30-40 snaps a game.

 

[Ring 6]

Burkhead caught 30 balls last year and missed a bunch of time.

White catches 50 balls in his sleep.

I see Hollister as an H-back move TE. I think hes gonna play at least 30-40 snaps a game.

If 150 balls are going to those 3 its a sign things aren’t working, not a plan.

 

[luuked]

Yikes.

He is a ST player first and foremost and then a smoke and mirrors piece to manipulate coverages or trick plays. Anything even remotely resembling a WR would be a bonus.

 

[Hyped]

Comments:

- Bringing in a WR at this point likely will not bear fruit for the 2018 season. Dosett only had 12 catches last year. I can't recall a receiver who did well in our offense after being in Foxboro a short time unless it were an ex-player like Deion Branch. So, what we have is what we have....

- Remember Randy Moss during the 2007 pre-season...he never practiced after tweaking his hammy. We were expecting NOTHING until he torched the Jets in week 1. And also, remember Cassell looked like ABSOLUTE crap in the 2008 pre-season that many (myself included) thought he wouldn't even make the 53 man cut....and he later on in the year threw for 400+ yards in Miami..... Point being that...pre-season/camp means crap until week 1.

- Funny.....only weeks ago, I thought we had too much depth at WR..... That being said...even if three of Decker, Dorsett, Britt, and Patterson bounce back quickly and play well in the 3rd pre-season game...and then 3 of 4 make the final cut...those 3 aren't seeing many targets during the season. Edelman, Gronk, Hogan, and White will be seeing at least 50% of all of Brady's attempts during the season....probably as much as 70% (assumes 600 attempts with 150 to Gronk, 100 to Edelman, 85 to Hogan, 75 to White). Three of: Dorsett, Britt, Patterson, and Decker are all gonna be targeted about 200 times MAX COMBINED.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Comments:

- Bringing in a WR at this point likely will not bear fruit for the 2018 season. Dosett only had 12 catches last year. I can't recall a receiver who did well in our offense after being in Foxboro a short time unless it were an ex-player like Deion Branch. So, what we have is what we have....

- Remember Randy Moss during the 2007 pre-season...he never practiced after tweaking his hammy. We were expecting NOTHING until he torched the Jets in week 1. And also, remember Cassell looked like ABSOLUTE crap in the 2008 pre-season that many (myself included) thought he wouldn't even make the 53 man cut....and he later on in the year threw for 400+ yards in Miami..... Point being that...pre-season/camp means crap until week 1.

- Funny.....only weeks ago, I thought we had too much depth at WR..... That being said...even if three of Decker, Dorsett, Britt, and Patterson bounce back quickly and play well in the 3rd pre-season game...and then 3 of 4 make the final cut...those 3 aren't seeing many targets during the season. Edelman, Gronk, Hogan, and White will be seeing at least 50% of all of Brady's attempts during the season....probably as much as 70% (assumes 600 attempts with 150 to Gronk, 100 to Edelman, 85 to Hogan, 75 to White). Three of: Dorsett, Britt, Patterson, and Decker are all gonna be targeted about 200 times MAX COMBINED.

That’s great but that’s relying on a guy coming back from ACL to be your number 1 receiver. You still need other guys to take some snap because i don’t trust hogan at times to beat man coverage. He was injured last season and we don’t know how he will bounce back. It’s still very thin.

 

[signbabybrady]

That's all well and good, but the problem is that those two have very long, very documented injury histories and if either of them get injured this season, there isn't anything in the way of quality coming in behind them. 2016 was ultimately what you want. You don't need all-pros but you do need something of quality. The team still had Edelman, but the burden wasn't totally on him. They also had Hogan, Amendola, and a healthy Mitchell. That was a roster that was very deep at the skill positions and it needed to be because 2015 was another situation where the depth behind the main guys was merely meh at best and it was a disaster once Edelman went down.

Right now, they have Dorsett (bust to date), Patterson (Brady hasn't even looked at him in quite some time in practice and was brought in in the first place for his return abilities), Decker (on his last legs and is having trouble getting separation), McCarron (PS last year), Berrios (undersized rookie), and Britt (can't even get on the field and has dealt with injuries his entire career).

I'll worry about that if they get hurt. The panic level right now does not equal the actual situation.