The 2018 Pats Defensive Line

[TheRainMaker]

Flowers
Hightower
Rivers
Clayborn
Wise
Van noy

There is some quality and depth there if healthy

Looks pretty mediocre to me. Hightower could improve it but I think he'll be used more in coverage.

 

[Deus Irae]

OK, focus on the SB if you must. As an exercise, I would suggest folks list all the players available this year who didn't play in that game. Also, we might list everyone who played in a limited role because of injuries.

Either that, or you could just say that you misread that group of posts and let it go. I'd prefer you did that, because I wasn't focusing on the SB, and was just replying specifically about a clear and specific post. And, not only that, but the injury issue is often going to be irrelevant or misleading, and last year is an excellent example of that.

It is my position that we are likely to be a much better team on defense than the one that played last year. Do you disagree?

It's too soon for anyone outside of the organization to have any even reasonably informed opinion about that.

And yes, I believe that a team that is in the top 5 teams in points allowed against the entire schedule is better than one that is 15th or 20th.

That's a misleading way to put it. It's also not always going to be true, as you must surely recognize.

No, being in the top 5 may not be enough in a particular game. An opposing offense might be much better against our defense than the entire schedule. Of course, the same is true about opposing defenses playing against our offense. In the end, it is better to be top 5 than 15th.

In the end, it doesn't make a damned bit of difference, unless the reason for the higher ranking is because the defense is actually better, and not because of scheduling breaks or the coaches being able to scheme well enough to cover up what will be exposed in the playoffs.

And yes, in the end, matchups may be more important, and how well each team is motivated on that day; and of course, on luck.

Yeah, that's it. BB/Brady teams have a real problem with motivation in the years they don't win the SB. 2009 is not the anomaly. It's the norm.

 

[RayClay]

They didn’t play last year and they could this year. Isn’t Edelman an addition to the offense of 2017?

Actually, Mathews would be an addition to the team if he makes it. Mathews wasn't on our team last year. As an addition, he will need to learn the playbook.

 

[RayClay]

Flowers
Hightower
Rivers
Clayborn
Wise
Van noy

There is some quality and depth there if healthy

Is 3rd round De-OLB pass rusher rivers guaranteed to contribute? I asked Geneo Grissom and Sean Crable but they didn't respond. Wise, really? We're set because we have Wise?

 

[RayClay]

Which is one reason why they may choose to keep Butler over Valentine, as one can argue the importance of having a more versatile player who is able to line up in different spots and provide something of an interior pass rush, as opposed to just another big bodied run stuffer.

Butler played in all 19 games, recording 4 total sacks, at least two which came in very important spots (AFCDG and AFCCG). Ultimately, I’d prefer keeping both, but it’s certainly possible that Valentine is not close to being the lock that most think he is.

I doubt that. If healthy Valentine has a size athleticism combo that is hard to acquire when needed. Obviously, if Valentine can't play healthy that changes, but undersized linemen are not rare. We had another guy at that position who looked great in camp.

Lack of effective monsters inside was evident last year once Branch flaked out. Guy worked hard but the simply got run on up the gut requirig assistance. Belichick quoted someone to the effect that there are only so many 300lb+ athletic players.

 

[Ring 6]

Actually, Mathews would be an addition to the team if he makes it. Mathews wasn't on our team last year. As an addition, he will need to learn the playbook.

So will Edelman.

 

[Ring 6]

Is 3rd round De-OLB pass rusher rivers guaranteed to contribute? I asked Geneo Grissom and Sean Crable but they didn't respond. Wise, really? We're set because we have Wise?

Not sure what you are looking for. If you expect every spot on the team to be”set” with no questions your just going to always be disappointed.

 

[Ring 6]

Looks pretty mediocre to me. Hightower could improve it but I think he'll be used more in coverage.

Flowers is fine there are a lot of options on the other side.

 

[RayClay]

So will Edelman.

I hope he can develop some chemistry with the quarterback.

 

[RayClay]

Not sure what you are looking for. If you expect every spot on the team to be”set” with no questions your just going to always be disappointed.

It is a weak position and has been for a couple years. Looking forward to Clayborn and hopefully some vigorous competition for all except Flowers.

 

[Ring 6]

I hope he can develop some chemistry with the quarterback.

I think he will be fine. He’s a huge addition.

 

[Ring 6]

It is a weak position and has been for a couple years. Looking forward to Clayborn and hopefully some vigorous competition for all except Flowers.

It was strong in 2016 and 2015 and 2014...

 

[mgteich]

OK, I'm almost as much a homer as you are. So, I'm fine stimulating that we have quality with a healthy group of Hightower, Van Noy, Flowers and Clayborne.

I'm not sure I'd rave about Wise and Rivers as quality depth.

Flowers
Hightower
Rivers
Clayborn
Wise
Van noy

There is some quality and depth there if healthy

 

[RayClay]

It was strong in 2016 and 2015 and 2014...

We've lost a lot of players since those years.

 

[RayClay]

OK, I'm almost as much a homer as you are. So, I'm fine stimulating that we have quality with a healthy group of Hightower, Van Noy, Flowers and Clayborne.

I'm not sure I'd rave about Wise and Rivers as quality depth.

If Hightower and Van Noy are not healthy, we are unlikely to replace them adwquately anyway. So we added two LBs who look promising. We hope the other two become stalwarts, but they need to prove it IMO. Competition is good, we don't have the money to trade for and pay a Chandler Jones type, so we need to develop by trying guys.Cassius clown Marsh shows the task. Lots of washouts at the position so we need to work and evaluate harder.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Flowers is fine there are a lot of options on the other side.

Flowers is okay but he's more like a complementary guy like Clayborn. He's not a guy that scares anybody. I really want to see Hightower rush the passer more and his pass rushing style reminds me of Adalius Thomas. Wise Jr. has promise but needs more rush moves if he wants to take the next step. Rivers needs to show the team he can actually play and hopefully he's not the next Shawn Crable.

 

[mgteich]

And yes, we had that issue last year with trying to replace Hightower and Ninkovich (and McClellan).

The team was still AFC Champions.

If Hightower and Van Noy are not healthy, we are unlikely to replace them adwquately anyway.

 

[Ring 6]

OK, I'm almost as much a homer as you are. So, I'm fine stimulating that we have quality with a healthy group of Hightower, Van Noy, Flowers and Clayborne.

I'm not sure I'd rave about Wise and Rivers as quality depth.

Not sure I raved. I listed the players on the roster.

 

[Ring 6]

Flowers is okay but he's more like a complementary guy like Clayborn. He's not a guy that scares anybody. I really want to see Hightower rush the passer more and his pass rushing style reminds me of Adalius Thomas. Wise Jr. has promise but needs more rush moves if he wants to take the next step. Rivers needs to show the team he can actually play and hopefully he's not the next Shawn Crable.

Flowers has been dominant when healthy.

 

[Ring 6]

We've lost a lot of players since those years.

How does that change the fact that you said it has been a weak spot for a couple of years?