Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[NormZauchin]

I think it's fair to say that the publicly known facts don't paint a good picture of BB's decision making. I think it's 100% fair to base our opinions on those publicly known facts, largely because BB deliberately hides everything he can and forces us to guess at almost everything.

I also think that we (all involved in these discussions) have to acknowledge that we are operating with insufficient information, to remind ourselves of that occasionally, and to be open to changing our positions when new information comes to light.

Churchill famously said of Russia that it is "a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma." Aptly describes Belichick's thinking on the Super Bowl.

 

[IcyPatriot]

636 replies to go ...

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I’m late to this thread. Just curious, does anyone think they would have fared better with Malcolm Butler instead of Eric Rowe, Jonathan Bademosi and/or Jordan Richards? Please don’t hesitate to use the maximum character count, or even spread your reply out into multiple posts if necessary.

 

[aluminum seats]

You said they were slaughtered.

EXACTLY. Bill absolutely, unequivocally gets the benefit of the doubt for using sound judgement in benching Malcolm. Doesnt mean he was right but it does mean it was well thought out. Thats the part that you don't agree with which is why i say willy -nilly.

Yes Robert, I said they were slaughtered. I was referring to the defense. You’re actually repeating your petty moment? That’s a sign of badly losing an argument.

And no, you’re misstating my position, which is bizarre. You keep saying willy nilly, not me, so stop saying it. I’m saying your view, that because someone has used sound judgement in the past every decision they ever make will be the product of sound judgement is wrong. And pretty obviously so.

 

[chasa]

You said they were slaughtered.

EXACTLY. Bill absolutely, unequivocally gets the benefit of the doubt for using sound judgement in benching Malcolm. Doesnt mean he was right but it does mean it was well thought out. Thats the part that you don't agree with which is why i say willy -nilly.

The defense was in fact slaughtered.

If you think they were not slaughtered, you were watching the wrong game.

 

[reflexblue]

600+ more and it's the #1 thread since Ian changed systems in 2004.

Ok FBN what was the numero uno thread?

 

[maust]

636 replies to go ...

I’m late to this thread. Just curious, does anyone think they would have fared better with Malcolm Butler instead of Eric Rowe, Jonathan Bademosi and/or Jordan Richards? Please don’t hesitate to use the maximum character count, or even spread your reply out into multiple posts if necessary.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Ok FBN what was the numero uno thread?

PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum

 

[obgod3]

A couple decent tackles by our defense might have changed the game, Butler was one of the better tacklers on the team....do the math...I think no matter what this decision will go down as a classically bad decision by BB. He isnt perfect and imho he screwed this one up.

 

[Lee144]

So not playing a player who 1. missed practice
2. wasn’t attentive in the practices he was at
3. didn’t learn the game plan
4. melted down before kickoff

Andy buddy, please stop arguing for the sake of arguing. Let’s trim the bs out of your post and discuss the specific points that you continue throwing around.
1. He missed practice..yes he was ruled out with an illness but, judging from his former teammates comments he returned and attended all remaining.
2. His teammates seem to say otherwise as they were shocked he didn’t play and if I remember correctly, media reported watching him practice.
3. He practiced with the team and knew the game plan and was prepared to play during the SB.
4. Lol at this one. He cried during the national anthem...something that’s occurred probably a million times in the NFL but for you, constitutes a “meltdown”.

So let’s look at facts. He missed a practice, arrived late, admittedly was not as locked in as he could have been for the game.

Are those three reasons enough to make you pull your starting corner out of the biggest game? Maybe for a series or at most a half, but not for the entire game. If you sit him for any amount of time, out of respect for your players that have worked hard and bought in and are putting blood and guts into this, you owe them an explanation. At the same time, you can’t make that call and absolve yourself from any scrutiny when your decision backfires and your team’s defense gets trounced.

My biggest frustration with this is the arrogance this decision is made with. You owe your players and your fan base an explanation and if you don’t think that you do, then your head is too far up your own ass, and you are too detached from reality. You can be the smartest coach in the world but if your players don’t trust you, you’ll be fighting an uphill battle.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy buddy, please stop arguing for the sake of arguing. Let’s trim the bs out of your post and discuss the specific points that you continue throwing around.

My post was in response to a belief that there could be no possible reason that makes sense.

1. He missed practice..yes he was ruled out with an illness but, judging from his former teammates comments he returned and attended all remaining.

Butler himself said he struggled in practice and was not dialed in to the game plan.
No reason to judge anything, he said it himself.

2. His teammates seem to say otherwise as they were shocked he didn’t play and if I remember correctly, media reported watching him practice.

And other teammate said they aren’t surprised at all.

3. He practiced with the team and knew the game plan and was prepared to play during the SB.

That’s not what he said.

4. Lol at this one. He cried during the national anthem...something that’s occurred probably a million times in the NFL but for you, constitutes a “meltdown”.

You are joking right?

So let’s look at facts.

Except we don’t know the facts.

He missed a practice, arrived late, admittedly was not as locked in as he could have been for the game.

That’s what he said.

Are those three reasons enough to make you pull your starting corner out of the biggest game?

The way you frame it no it’s not. Which means there are clearly facts we do not know.

Maybe for a series or at most a half, but not for the entire game.

Belichick day him for the entire game. Belichick knows why, you and I don’t.
I think the safest bet in the world is that Belichick didn’t do it because he wanted to lose so something or things butler did caused the greater coach ever to think it was a terrible idea to our him on the field.

If you sit him for any amount of time, out of respect for your players that have worked hard and bought in and are putting blood and guts into this, you owe them an explanation.

No you don’t. You owe them doing what you think is best.

At the same time, you can’t make that call and absolve yourself from any scrutiny when your decision backfires and your team’s defense gets trounced.

How is he absolving himself from scrutiny? Belichick is 100% accountable to every decision he makes and everything about this football team. That’s exactly why it’s the greatest dynasty ever.

[quite]My biggest frustration with this is the arrogance this decision is made with. [/quote]
So a decision you don’t like is therefore arrogant? If it were arrogance he would be running around trashing butler to deflect blame. He has done none of that.

You owe your players and your fan base an explanation

No you don’t.

and if you don’t think that you do, then your head is too far up your own ass, and you are too detached from reality. You can be the smartest coach in the world but if your players don’t trust you, you’ll be fighting an uphill battle.

Bill Belichicks head is up his ass, he is detached from reality and his players don’t trust him? That’s your position? Wow.
Thank his he won us 5 SBs before he was afflicted with those issues and became a train wreck of a coach overnight.

 

[Mountain_Commando]

What was the #1 thread of all time?

Do I really want to know??

 

[IcyPatriot]

What was the #1 thread of all time?

Do I really want to know??

The 2012 season: the Jets [Mod Edit: STILL] suck

5610 REPLIES

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yes Robert, I said they were slaughtered. I was referring to the defense. You’re actually repeating your petty moment? That’s a sign of badly losing an argument.

And no, you’re misstating my position, which is bizarre. You keep saying willy nilly, not me, so stop saying it. I’m saying your view, that because someone has used sound judgement in the past every decision they ever make will be the product of sound judgement is wrong. And pretty obviously so.

Look, I'm not going to assume what people think or intend to say on this board. Be more specific. It prevents confusion and misunderstandings

For the sake of clarity, do you think Bill used sound judgement? Do you think Bill was put in an impossible situation?

 

[RobertWeathers]

The defense was in fact slaughtered.

If you think they were not slaughtered, you were watching the wrong game.

D was. Team was not. I'm not going to get in the business of trying to assume what people think.

 

[nabwong]

A couple decent tackles by our defense might have changed the game, Butler was one of the better tacklers on the team....do the math...I think no matter what this decision will go down as a classically bad decision by BB. He isnt perfect and imho he screwed this one up.

 

[aluminum seats]

Look, I'm not going to assume what people think or intend to say on this board. Be more specific. It prevents confusion and misunderstandings

For the sake of clarity, do you think Bill used sound judgement? Do you think Bill was put in an impossible situation?

No, you were being petty. But whatever.

I think there are no set of facts, even hypothetical, that justify what occurred during the Super Bowl.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The 2012 season: the Jets [Mod Edit: STILL] suck

5610 REPLIES

Let’s go for the record...the 2012 season has nothing on this.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No, you were being petty. But whatever.

I think there are no set of facts, even hypothetical, that justify what occurred during the Super Bowl.

I'll say it again- be specific. Lots of fans believe they were destroyed in the SB even though they were winning with 2min to go. It's called emotions getting the best of you. Its ok. Its happens.

So your position is regardless of any set of circumstances Malcolm either should have played?

 

[aluminum seats]

I'll say it again- be specific. Lots of fans believe they were destroyed in the SB even though they were winning with 2min to go. It's called emotions getting the best of you. Its ok. Its happens.

So your position is regardless of any set of circumstances Malcolm either should have played?

Passive aggressive, huh. Weak sauce.

Your question isn’t clear. From what I can figure from your poor phrasing, you’re asking if your litany of excuses I’ve already debunked now make sense? Nope, still bad.