Gronk Reportedly Still Undecided On Playing Next Year:

[maineman209]

Hmmm ...

Just skimmed back through the posts involved in the "Great Guerrero Debate". As a former marathoner, I find it interesting that anyone is convinced that "electrolyte balance" and "muscle pliability/stretching" are ******** concepts.

Admittedly, I don't know precisely what the "Guerrero Method" definitions and recommendations are, because I've never paid much attention to "training gurus" or adopted any "fitness crazes". I've never partaken of "sports drinks". I tried Gatorade a couple times and it didn't agree with me at all, so I don't even drink that.

However, rejecting the concepts as being unimportant to high-level athletic success, especially for older athletes, is just ignorant.

 

[supafly]

I've never partaken of "sports drinks". I tried Gatorade a couple times and it didn't agree with me at all, so I don't even drink that.

Totally off topic in relation to the Gronk/Guerrero talk, but since I’ve been battling lots of health issues I use a daily app to help track my sugar, sodium, carbs, fats, etc, and Gatorade is simply awful. I’m not overweight at 185-190 lbs, but I’m taking a proactive approach to being more aware of what I’m putting in my body, these days.

Their standard 32 oz bottle has 56 grams of sugar. The daily recommended cutoff for an adult male is 36 grams, and that includes all of your meals, drinks, snacks, etc. For reference’s sake, a tablespoon of sugar is 4 grams, so the daily allotment is 9 tablespoons. They do make an electrolyte infused water called Propel, which is much, much better for you. If you’re still running or working out, you may want to give that a try. Just FYI.

 

[supafly]

Well, first of all, the date for the start of these first OTAs for the Pats wasn't announced until 3-4 weeks ago, IIRC. Secondly, BB said in his pre-draft presser that the team was aware that "a couple of players" wouldn't be able to attend Monday's start "due to prior commitments".

Pretty clearly, Brady's meet & greet with the troops in Qatar has been on the books for months. Gronk has been heavily involved in promoting the "Still Our City" campaign and some of the Marathon bombing memorials. I'm pretty sure his commitments to the relevant events weren't just scheduled last week.

Rather than getting all "OMG! Gronk not attending the start of (voluntary) OTAs!! What does this mean??!!", I've been wondering why TF the Pats felt compelled to schedule that start to coincide with Marathon Day, ever since the date was first announced. I'm sure that there are at least a few other Pats players who had planned to attend some of the related charity events or to attend the race itself to support friends or family who are running in it. It seemed pretty inevitable that it would create some schedule conflicts.

I’m not as concerned with the fact that he’s missing the start of voluntary workouts as I am the coinciding reports that he’s still mulling retirement, and that it’s likely due to his unhappiness with his current compensation.

As mentioned, there is an incentive in the form of 250k for him to attend a certain portion of the voluntary program, so we’ll find out pretty quickly how far he’s going to dig his heels in. Hopefully, he’s back there in a couple of days. You can bet that Brady will be.

 

[maineman209]

Totally off topic in relation to the Gronk/Guerrero talk, but since I’ve been battling lots of health issues I use a daily app to help track my sugar, sodium, carbs, fats, etc, and Gatorade is simply awful. I’m not overweight at 185-190 lbs, but I’m taking a proactive approach to being more aware of what I’m putting in my body, these days.

Their standard 32 oz bottle has 56 grams of sugar. The daily recommended cutoff for an adult male is 36 grams, and that includes all of your meals, drinks, snacks, etc. For reference’s sake, a tablespoon of sugar is 4 grams, so the daily allotment is 9 tablespoons. They do make an electrolyte infused water called Propel, which is much, much better for you. If you’re still running or working out, you may want to give that a try. Just FYI.

Thanks!

My marathoning "career" took place way back in the dark ages when Gatorade was the only commercial sports drink and there was only a handful of running shoes to choose from . I've always managed my calories and electrolytes the old fashion way - through my diet and by "feel".

Anyway, I'm seriously old now. The most strenuous athletic activity I participate in now is gardening. But with 5000sf of my own perennial beds and a few thousand sf more of municipal planting beds that I help maintain as a volunteer, it sometimes feels like a full-contact sport.

 

[maineman209]

I’m not as concerned with the fact that he’s missing the start of voluntary workouts as I am the coinciding reports that he’s still mulling retirement, and that it’s likely due to his unhappiness with his current compensation.

As mentioned, there is an incentive in the form of 250k for him to attend a certain portion of the voluntary program, so we’ll find out pretty quickly how far he’s going to dig his heels in. Hopefully, he’s back there in a couple of days. You can bet that Brady will be.

IDK, it seems to me that the factual reports that Gronk will miss Monday are being leveraged to justify another round of speculative "reports" that he's "still considering retirement".

As far as the workout bonus thing goes, I presume that the Pats have the authority to excuse some absences. Considering the near certainty that the Pats themselves scheduled today's practice well after Brady (and very possibly Gronk) had made prior commitments to ostensibly worthy causes, it's possible that Gronk's absence won't be counted against his workout bonus requirement.

Of course, the way the media works, if that happens, (A) it will be reported as "the Pats caving to Gronk's demands", or (B) studiously ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative.

 

[DarrylS]

After the RS Win, Bruins Win, Celtics OT win and the Marathon, all will take a back seat to the idiots on Sports Talk Radio.. who will have their daily *********** about Gronkowski and similar BS about BB.

The good thing is that the NFL has become a twelve month news cycle, the bad thing is that the NFL has become a twelve month news cycle and the underlying theme is finding some conspiracy..

 

[luuked]

One thing that puzzles me about this discussion is the fact that the bar Guerrero's methods must clear (in order to be approved of by various posters) is something along the lines of indisputable, peer-reviewed, scientific fact.

Yet the traditional training methods of the Patriots' strength and conditioning staff (and presumably many other football-related training staffs) are largely accepted without question, and seemingly without the same degree of scientific proof that folks are requiring of Guerrero and his methods.

Do we have bulletproof, verifiable evidence that the traditional training methods ubiquitous in the sport of football are actually beneficial? Or is all of this stuff regarding training/optimizing one's body for a given sport largely anecdotal and subjective in nature?

Are you kidding?

There are decades of experience and academic research into how strength and conditioning is being coached. Do you think Cabrera was hired and builds the program based on some knee jerk ideas ?

He has a related degree and attends conferences and meetings in the area of sports science regularly. As do most strength and conditioning coaches around the league.

I can't even start to comprehend how you can call multiple decades of all that "maybe anectodal" and yet you seem to have an issue with people critizising Guerrero who is literally the definition of anecdotal coaching.

Seriously ?

 

[BTTA]

Yes, and...all of the assumed impact and benefits of stretching have been called into question in the past few years. It turns out that in many cases the muscles respond to counter the movement, by pulling back, shortening themselves, and tightening up. This has become evident as science advanced enough to allow actual measurement.

Another example comes from weight training, where the deadlift has long been a staple and considered one of the most efficient exercises for overall body strengthening. Now, it is being eschewed as just the opposite.

There's still more to be studied, and the science is developing rapidly. I don't trust anything in this area that's labeled as "certain."

Are you kidding?

There are decades of experience and academic research into how strength and conditioning is being coached. Do you think Cabrera was hired and builds the program based on some knee jerk ideas ?

He has a related degree and attends conferences and meetings in the area of sports science regularly. As do most strength and conditioning coaches around the league.

I can't even start to comprehend how you can call multiple decades of all that "maybe anectodal" and yet you seem to have an issue with people critizising Guerrero who is literally the definition of anecdotal coaching.

Seriously ?

 

[BTTA]

Sugar is now being linked to dementia. It will probably end up being the worst of all the white powders introduced into western civilization.

Totally off topic in relation to the Gronk/Guerrero talk, but since I’ve been battling lots of health issues I use a daily app to help track my sugar, sodium, carbs, fats, etc, and Gatorade is simply awful. I’m not overweight at 185-190 lbs, but I’m taking a proactive approach to being more aware of what I’m putting in my body, these days.

Their standard 32 oz bottle has 56 grams of sugar. The daily recommended cutoff for an adult male is 36 grams, and that includes all of your meals, drinks, snacks, etc. For reference’s sake, a tablespoon of sugar is 4 grams, so the daily allotment is 9 tablespoons. They do make an electrolyte infused water called Propel, which is much, much better for you. If you’re still running or working out, you may want to give that a try. Just FYI.

 

[primetime]

Are you kidding?

There are decades of experience and academic research into how strength and conditioning is being coached. Do you think Cabrera was hired and builds the program based on some knee jerk ideas ?

He has a related degree and attends conferences and meetings in the area of sports science regularly. As do most strength and conditioning coaches around the league.

I can't even start to comprehend how you can call multiple decades of all that "maybe anectodal" and yet you seem to have an issue with people critizising Guerrero who is literally the definition of anecdotal coaching.

Seriously ?

Yeah, exercise and nutrition science has been studied a lot. So has economics. That doesn't mean there's any sort of scientific consensus except on the broadest of principles. Consensus in these fields change like the wind. Fat in your diet is bad for you one day and the next day it's the center of every science-based diet.

That's not to say Guerrero isn't a snake oil salesman, because I think he is, but the science behind traditional strength and conditioning paradigms is hardly rock solid. It's a difference of degree, not kind. In the end, a lot of it is just religion; just depends how mainstream the church you want to worship at is.

 

[1960Pats]

My thoughts after reading this thread;

I'm sick (and tired) of the constant references to 'reports' that drive the mediot train and seem to control the way folks think. It's like the media has become one giant Mort Distort.

Also, can we stop with the idea that Gronk is underpaid? The guy will make 60 million in his 10 year career and so far has missed 21% of the Pats' regular season games played.

If Gronk is at all unhappy it could have something to do with the loss of Amendola and some others. I don't like it either, but I'm not giving up on the Pats because of it.

I don't think we can use a 250K incentive bonus to judge the thinking of a 12 million salaried player, even if the mediots would like that to happen.

All the talk in this thread about Guerrero's methods vs the NYFL's is eerily similar to listening to a debate about climate change.

I can't wait until the draft arrives, even though I won't be watching it.

 

[raduray]

Gronk pay history:

View attachment 20106

That's an illuminating chart. Assuming the reports he's been living off endorsements and hasn't touched his salary are true, then he's got $41M plus whatever that money has earned sitting in the "bank". That's a nice fallback if it turns out he really doesn't love football anymore.

 

[IllegalContact]

I wouldn't be shocked at all if gronk is traded, you can't run a team when one of the key players won't say definitively if hes going to play. BB can't go into the season not knowing for sure if gronks going to be there. If he is traded i doubt the return will be commensurate with him being the goat, because he won't commit to playing.

what do you think you'll get for someone who's not sure they're going to play next season?

I mean if it comes down to him not wanting to be here, it would be pretty easy to move him given his value as opposed to his cap hit.

 

[raduray]

Absolutely. The entire offseason would feel different. The Super Bowl left a terrible mark on the team like how Super Bowl 49 wrecked the Seahawks.

I agree. The way Belichick handled the Butler situation in that game has taken a bit of a shine off him. Amendola alluded to that in his interview and I'm sure others feel the same way. The fact is, many are questioning if Belichick put "team first" in that situation.

 

[luuked]

Yes, and...all of the assumed impact and benefits of stretching have been called into question in the past few years. It turns out that in many cases the muscles respond to counter the movement, by pulling back, shortening themselves, and tightening up. This has become evident as science advanced enough to allow actual measurement.

Another example comes from weight training, where the deadlift has long been a staple and considered one of the most efficient exercises for overall body strengthening. Now, it is being eschewed as just the opposite.

There's still more to be studied, and the science is developing rapidly. I don't trust anything in this area that's labeled as "certain."

The point is that we do whatever is considered the right thing at that time. Which is why Cabrera is on the conference and meetings circuit keeping up-to-date.

If any of the training BB and Cabrera advocate would actually be harmful it would not have been the standard for multiple decades.

Is it the best thing we will ever have? Who knows. But that is not the point.

 

[luuked]

I agree. The way Belichick handled the Butler situation in that game has taken a bit of a shine off him. Amendola alluded to that in his interview and I'm sure others feel the same way. The fact is, many are questioning if Belichick put "team first" in that situation.

Except for multiple player interviews that clearly stated that Butler did it to himself by being **** in practice.

 

[luuked]

Yeah, exercise and nutrition science has been studied a lot. So has economics. That doesn't mean there's any sort of scientific consensus except on the broadest of principles. Consensus in these fields change like the wind. Fat in your diet is bad for you one day and the next day it's the center of every science-based diet.

That's not to say Guerrero isn't a snake oil salesman, because I think he is, but the science behind traditional strength and conditioning paradigms is hardly rock solid. It's a difference of degree, not kind. In the end, a lot of it is just religion; just depends how mainstream the church you want to worship at is.

Which is why I mentioned that our team is usually always around the cutting edge: eg. they bought some of those expensive floatation therapy beds and even had them shipped from Foxboro to the SBs the last two years.

People keep focusing on the wrong thing when it comes to the entire Guerrero issue. It is not about whether his methods are snake oil but all about authority and him making people question plans laid out by Moses Cabrera.

 

[Jackson 2]

what do you think you'll get for someone who's not sure they're going to play next season?

I mean if it comes down to him not wanting to be here, it would be pretty easy to move him given his value as opposed to his cap hit.

All of that also should be placed in the context of Gronkowski's public statements that he doesn't want to play with any QB other than Brady.

 

[Steve102]

Man, there's a lot of hang wringing in this thread. Here's what we know for certain: Nothing.

My thoughts are that I don't have the space in my brain to worry about what a wealthy 28 year old will do when it comes to his career. I don't think I actually care. Whether he's here Week 1 or not, I will be watching. But to hand wring and let it take up space in my brain, can't do it.

 

[Love The Drake]

All of that also should be placed in the context of Gronkowski's public statements that he doesn't want to play with any QB other than Brady.

He may consider Grap and we may consider sending him one of our seconds and Gronk to San Fran for Mayfield or Rosen?
I think if any trade happens that may make the most sense.