The Media still HATES us even though we suck. Want Belichick gone bad.

[Rob0729]

If you look at the passing leaders in Brady's first few seasons the only other QBs consistently in the mix at the top were Manning, Favre, and then Trent Green (first couple), Marc Bugler (second couple). I have no problem calling Manning and Favre elite in that era but Brady is right there with them.

Per football database, in 2003 the Patriots had the 9th ranked passing offense per game and the 27th ranked rushing offense. So Brady was the reason that offense was "slightly above average" and was carrying the offense in his third season as a starter on a Super Bowl team. That defense was great but Brady was far from just along for the ride.

If it wasn't for the defense, the Patriots would not have had the #1 seed and a bye that year. They won two games 12-0 and one 9-3. There were games where the defense had as many TDs in the offense. The defense clearly carried the team during the regular season.

 

[Rob0729]

I fully admit it is a stupid rule but so is the catch rule and fumbling the ball through the end zone is a touch back and numerous other rules. If anything it should be a point in Bill's favor that he knew enough to challenge it.

Fact is that any Super Bowl winning team wins with some luck. The tuck rule was part of that luck. It takes nothing away from the season.

 

[Rob0729]

Brady had IT from day one. That's the "IT" we are hoping to see from Mac but haven't yet.

No chance a team starts 0-2 looking feeble then switches to another QB, then 14-3 the rest of the way with a championship without the new QB being someone very special.

Brady clearly showed signs of being special from day one. It took him several years to reach that potential.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Lol so a rule you don't like = dumb luck? The NFL has tons of stupid rules but in the end of the day they are followed until they get changed. And yes, Brady was clutch from day one. He led them back against San Diego down 10+ for a win in OT in his first couple of starts. He had a comeback win against the Jets that year if I remember correctly. Then in the post season he led them on multiple scoring drives in the snow against Oakland and obviously in the Super Bowl drove them down the field while former hall of fame coach, John Madden, said they should just play for OT. Brady was always clutch.

Troy Brown was clutch in that game and saved Bradys ass. He was the greatest but benefitted from great coaching and some great teammates.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Is your argument that we're time traveling Brady to 2023 as he played in Michigan in 1999? Lol

More realistically, 23 yo Brady in 2023 would've had the modern training and nutrition making him athletically comparable to todays athletes, otherwise he wouldn't have made today's college teams. What made Brady different from other QBs was his intangibles. His drive, his heart, competitiveness, clutchness, the chip on his shoulder. None of that would've changed. Otherwise he wouldn't be Brady.

Honestly, your argument is utter nonsense.

The answer is pretty simple and confirmed by some scouts and GMS. The main knock on Brady was that he platooned with Drew Henson at Michigan. This gave teams and scouts reason for major hesitation to use a high round pick on him. Most of the QBs are college alphas who dominate at that level. Brady played extremely well at UM but there was always this issue that he wasn’t good enough to be the starter full-time. He was in the end but the damage was done to his draft stock. Let's remember Brady wasn’t a five star recruit to begin with.

The other stuff is true: concerns about athleticism and arm strength, a run on mobile QBs (look at the infamous 2000 draft) but the Henson platoon issue was the biggest because it skewed the outlook in Brady so that scouts were looking for reasons why he wasn’t “the man” at Michigan rather than looking at why he became “the man” after a long battle with Henson.

 

[PATS16N0]

If it wasn't for the defense, the Patriots would not have had the #1 seed and a bye that year. They won two games 12-0 and one 9-3. There were games where the defense had as many TDs in the offense. The defense clearly carried the team during the regular season.

There’s such a thing called a salary cap. Having a really good defense meant Tom had to overachieve with scrubs as weapons and he did, dramatically.

You’ve gone full Colts. The mask is off. I really can’t believe this crypto-Patriot hate has been tolerated here for so many years, but it is what it is.

 

[Rob0729]

There’s such a thing called a salary cap. Having a really good defense meant Tom had to overachieve with scrubs as weapons and he did, dramatically.

You’ve gone full Colts. The mask is off. I really can’t believe this crypto-Patriot hate has been tolerated here for so many years, but it is what it is.

The Pats in the early dynasty used a lot of over the hill players other teams thought were washed up. I don't know if they put a lot of money in the defense. Certainly not in 2001. Belichick was praised for signing like 15 free agents that were impactful in that season for the price other teams were paying for one of the top free agents. And before anyone attacks the number, I don't remember the exact number just that it was a lot of low price free agents.

And I am not remotely going Colts to state that Manning was clearly recognized as the best QB in 2004. But whatever gets you through the night.

 

[PATS16N0]

The Pats in the early dynasty used a lot of over the hill players other teams thought were washed up. I don't know if they put a lot of money in the defense. Certainly not in 2001. Belichick was praised for signing like 15 free agents that were impactful in that season for the price other teams were paying for one of the top free agents. And before anyone attacks the number, I don't remember the exact number just that it was a lot of low price free agents.

And I am not remotely going Colts to state that Manning was clearly recognized as the best QB in 2004. But whatever gets you through the night.

He was ‘clearly’ recognized as the best QB in the league by the same people who said he was the best QB in the league in 2007 and beyond and then pouted on the post-game when Brady would own him again or he would embarrass himself in a slightly hyped SNF game. Not really an argument.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Bledsoe 18 games, 2000-01 - 17 ppg

Belichick made him highest paid player in NFL history during that stretch

Brady 14 games, 2001 - 24 ppg

Also without Glenn. Yeah he wasn’t that great or anything. Tha sisstum.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Fact is that any Super Bowl winning team wins with some luck. The tuck rule was part of that luck. It takes nothing away from the season.

Right except that was the exact point you were trying to vomit up.

 

[Rob0729]

Right except that was the exact point you were trying to vomit up.

Thanks for the input snowflake. Love ya, like a brotha.

 

[PATS16N0]

You said he was the single most clutch QB in the league the year he started playing. I was just using the tuck rule to show what a ridiculous statement you made.

You cry about "Brady haters" rewriting history to make Brady look bad, but you live in a Brady fantasyland.

It’s impossible to know who the most clutch player in the league was the year Tom won the Super Bowl with a game winning drive, he just knows it wasn’t Tom.

 

[PATS16N0]

In before Rob does Vinatieri name-drop.

 

[venecol]

I am saying if Brady came out the same way he came out in 2000. The same exact player or the 2023 comparable to what Brady was in 2000. None of this him working on his body like he did when came into the NFL. I am saying if the Brady of 2000 was a draft prospect in 2023, there is a good chance he would never had even made a team's practice squad.

But yes if you move the goalpost and completely change the argument, my argument is utter nonsense. But I was making this argument to debate whether Matthew Judon will play again this year, my argument would be utter nonsense too. But for what I am actually arguing, it isn't nonesense whether you agree or not.

It's utter nonsense because the 1999 Brady would not have even made it on the 2023 Michigan team. To ignore all the advances in sports training, medicine, analytics, nutrition, technology of the last 23 years and teleport 1999 Brady to 2023 is a ridiculuous argument. Show me a picture of a 2023 college QB that looked like Brady did in 2000. There aren't any. Hell, Brady at 46 looks a lot better than 23 yo Brady did in 1999. It's a stupid argument.

 

[PATS16N0]

All Patriot and Brady haters live in a world of alternate universes and bizarre professional sports time-travel. Wild coincidence Rob lives there, too.

 

[venecol]

I am not sure you can say that first sentence. I mean if it wasn't for the tuck rule, he would have lost in the division round because he even admits he had no intention to throw the ball and would have been strip sacked by Woodson.

He was extremely clutch in the Super Bowl though.

And in 2004, two QBs got MVP votes. Manning and Vick. Not Brady. And Manning was the unanimous All Pro QB that year too. Brady was great by 2004. Even elite. But based on the MVP and All Pro voting, he wasn't obviously the best QB in the NFL by then.

Dude you spend as much energy minimizing Brady's early years as you do maximizing Mac's early years. Think about how totally ridiculous that makes you look. Lol

 

[Rob0729]

It's utter nonsense because the 1999 Brady would not have even made it on the 2023 Michigan team. To ignore all the advances in sports training, medicine, analytics, nutrition, technology of the last 23 years and teleport 1999 Brady to 2023 is a ridiculuous argument. Show me a picture of a 2023 college QB that looked like Brady did in 2000. There aren't any. Hell, Brady at 46 looks a lot better than 23 yo Brady did in 1999. It's a stupid argument.

People on this board are arguing that Jake Fromm came into the league in worse shape than Brady did in 2000, but it would be impossible that a player like Brady would be the same.

And again, your argument is ridiculous. I am saying that if Brady was a draft prospect at a comparable level to what he was in 2000, he may never have ever gotten a chance to prove himself. That is it. Now you are bringing in a bunch of other irrelevant BS. I am making a point about the league now and how they view pocket passers. I am not making a point about Brady. This isn't a discussion on Brady. Brady is just an example used to show how the league has changed and moved away from pocket passers.

 

[Rob0729]

Dude you spend as much energy minimizing Brady's early years as you do maximizing Mac's early years. Think about how totally ridiculous that makes you look. Lol

I am not minimizing anything. You and the rest of the Brady cult cannot handle anyone not accepting the false narrative that the second Brady set foot on the football field, he was the greatest player to ever play the game.

 

[PATS16N0]

When ex-Steelers insist Tom Brady was jamming their radio signals from the intelligence bunker beneath Gillette stadium, Rob makes a fist and claims “he knew it.”

 

[Rob0729]

When ex-Steelers insist Tom Brady was jamming their radio signals from the intelligence bunker beneath Gillette stadium, Rob makes a fist and claims “he knew it.”

LOL! Never did that.

You would argue that the radio signals were so afraid Brady's greatness and as soon as they moved towards the field and saw Brady they made an about face and went back to the Steelers' sidelines.