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Overall We Are Not As Good As Last Year

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...it's gonna get a lot worse before it gets better...

 
They had injuries last year.

Regardless 8 more months to shape the roster.

Add High, JE11 and no Malcolm hospitalization BS and they win the SB by 2TDs.
You could just as easily say that Carson Wentz could be playing for the Eagles and have them win by a larger margin
 
I don't understand what is so amazing about that.

You missed the part where I wrote, "unless the they draft someone else". In addition, Gillislee failed as the "bigger back role" last year which was not his fault - that is not his game. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked if Gillisle asks for his release at some point during training camp. If Hill is truly over his injury, he'll easily be the featured back in this offense.

Yes he is more dangerous at the 2nd level than the line of scrimmage but I believe more often than not he could pick up a first down if the blocking was poor. I'm not talking about defenders already in the backfield which was most of the blocking Laurence Maroney had which didn't give him any time to dance. Lol.




I guess you didn't pick up on the humor regarding Hogan and Burkhead. I know they don't do this on purpose. Ditto with Mitchell. I agree Brady throws hospital balls which one contributed to Gronk getting his ACL torn by TJ Ward.


Yes, but you still need to have other WR's help out. The less threats on the outside makes it easier to take out Gronk if you haven't noticed.

You missed the part where I said he could have the Hernandez role. Allen is making too much money just to block.

Of course it's possible Garcia steps up out of nowhere, but you can't just assume someone already on the Pats roster or rookie can realistically step up and protect Brady in a pass heavy offense with a now 41 year old QB when the season starts.

The comparison I made for Clayborn to Ealy is that I could see Clayborn not even making the team. Wise having another year in the system will help him not being so undisciplined vs the run. He also needs to learn more pass rush moves than just the track star move. After teams picked up on his only move, he was invisible after week 3.

I agree that solid DT's make your overall run D look better than it might be (see the Vikings defense when they had Pat & Kevin Williams). However, their LB's had a phobia of defending passes in the flat and had a hard time defending RB's in general.

This is not by design. When they had Hightower, Mayo and Collins on the roster, did the exclusively run a two LB set? No. They wanted them all out there but Mayo regressed really bad. They do this now to try to hide their extremely putrid LB corps. I also think BB would rather run a 3-4 but he can't find the players to effectively run his style of defense. LB's are two small these days and it's hard to find DL like Warren and Seymour.

My issue is that they both aren't very good. Rowe couldn't play inside or outside gave up the most yards per play last year. This is all they talked about during Super Bowl week. Too many people here like Jones because he's "fast" but he got beat quite a bit last year.

What are your thoughts on passing on Marcus Peters or what we believe is BB not even attempting to reach out to Sherman? Given how I agree JJones isn't the answer at CB2 either. What about whiffing in speed to make a trade offer for Bennett?

On paper, Peters and Bennett are exactly the type of players this defense could use and they were both had for nothing this offseason by the Rams and Eagles respectively. Were their personalities too big for this team?
 
I agree about not overlooking the salary cap. However, this is something you do when you don't have a QB going on 41. It really defeats the narrative that the Pats are "all in" for Brady after trading Jimmy G.

*Then* we did not (as you say)

LT:
Most important position on the O-line and they let Solder walk.
We were out bid for his services. We were also out bid for WR Danny Amendola and RB Dion Lewis.
 
You could just as easily say that Carson Wentz could be playing for the Eagles and have them win by a larger margin

no no no

the rose glasses guys coming back from injuries thing only works when you're discussing Patriots players
 
What are your thoughts on passing on Marcus Peters or what we believe is BB not even attempting to reach out to Sherman? Given how I agree JJones isn't the answer at CB2 either. What about whiffing in speed to make a trade offer for Bennett?

On paper, Peters and Bennett are exactly the type of players this defense could use and they were both had for nothing this offseason by the Rams and Eagles respectively. Were their personalities too big for this team?
Marcus Peters and Michael Bennett would bring some much needed nastiness to the defense but they are both headcases. I wanted the Pats to sign Bennett after he was a free agent from Tampa Bay as he didn't lose his s*** until he went to Seattle ala Talib when he went to the Broncos. In addition, at some point you'd have to pay Peters and he's too much of a risk.

Sherman was never coming to NE. He not only fit's SF's scheme perfectly but he's familiar with the area and the division. It made too much sense. I don't think he would've done well in NE's man to man heavy scheme especially coming off of an Achilles injury.

I thought Aaron Colvin would've been a better option.
 
The comparison I made for Clayborn to Ealy is that I could see Clayborn not even making the team. Wise having another year in the system will help him not being so undisciplined vs the run. He also needs to learn more pass rush moves than just the track star move. After teams picked up on his only move, he was invisible after week 3.

No he will not. He would produce a 4m dead cap hit. Clayborn will be on the roster unless something extreme happens.

Also the comparison is just silly. Ealy was a low risk gift by the Panthers that could be cut for nothing in terms of dead cap. Clayborn is a chosen FA with a 4m signing bonus.

Yes he is more dangerous at the 2nd level than the line of scrimmage but I believe more often than not he could pick up a first down if the blocking was poor

That is definitely not the memory I have of Blount. He needed good blocking to be competent until he was past the LOS. But whatever.

Yes, but you still need to have other WR's help out. The less threats on the outside makes it easier to take out Gronk if you haven't noticed.

No I dont see it. You will have Cooks on the outside potentially drawing a double, Edelman on the inside doing the same and Gronk as well. And only 2 out of 3 can be doubled. This will open up space for whoever else is on the field on a specific snap.

The goal has to be to use Gronk as a target less often and just let him draw coverages or block. And then go to him a 6-7 times a game for the homerun. Any team still needs to respect him no matter what and you can keep him away from hits by letting him clear space / run decoy routes / block.

Of course it's possible Garcia steps up out of nowhere, but you can't just assume someone already on the Pats roster or rookie can realistically step up and protect Brady in a pass heavy offense with a now 41 year old QB when the season starts.

Anyone would feel better with Solder around but with the contract the Giants offered this was never realistic. Also I doubt anyone is banking anything on Garcia to step up. The job is Waddle's to lose this year and the concerns with him are not about performance but whether he can stay healthy for a full season. If he can then he will be a competent LT.

I agree that solid DT's make your overall run D look better than it might be (see the Vikings defense when they had Pat & Kevin Williams). However, their LB's had a phobia of defending passes in the flat and had a hard time defending RB's in general.

So had the ultra athletic Jamie Collins when he was on the team. Finding LBs that dont get their pants pulled down when they are in coverage against other NFL pros is somewhat the holy grail so good luck expecting the team to find someone capable of doing that consistently.

This is not by design. When they had Hightower, Mayo and Collins on the roster, did the exclusively run a two LB set? No. They wanted them all out there but Mayo regressed really bad. They do this now to try to hide their extremely putrid LB corps. I also think BB would rather run a 3-4 but he can't find the players to effectively run his style of defense. LB's are two small these days and it's hard to find DL like Warren and Seymour.

What you are missing is that the game has evolved to the point where nickel is the new base. You can thank the lazy College football game for that. You rather have another DB on the field than a third LB on the majority of snaps. So yes it is by design and a response to the concepts that are being used by most NFL teams nowadays.

My issue is that they both aren't very good. Rowe couldn't play inside or outside gave up the most yards per play last year. This is all they talked about during Super Bowl week. Too many people here like Jones because he's "fast" but he got beat quite a bit last year.

I am not gigantic Rowe fan myself but he was dealing with injury most of the year and then was the second best DB on the field during the SB after the first quarter. He can be pretty good if he is used in the right matchup. Obviously he is not a #1 corner type that you can just put on anyone.

Jones was imho better than Butler last year. And still has room to grow.
 
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I don't understand what is so amazing about that.

You missed the part where I wrote, "unless the they draft someone else". In addition, Gillislee failed as the "bigger back role" last year which was not his fault - that is not his game. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked if Gillisle asks for his release at some point during training camp. If Hill is truly over his injury, he'll easily be the featured back in this offense.

Yes he is more dangerous at the 2nd level than the line of scrimmage but I believe more often than not he could pick up a first down if the blocking was poor. I'm not talking about defenders already in the backfield which was most of the blocking Laurence Maroney had which didn't give him any time to dance. Lol.




I guess you didn't pick up on the humor regarding Hogan and Burkhead. I know they don't do this on purpose. Ditto with Mitchell. I agree Brady throws hospital balls which one contributed to Gronk getting his ACL torn by TJ Ward.


Yes, but you still need to have other WR's help out. The less threats on the outside makes it easier to take out Gronk if you haven't noticed.

You missed the part where I said he could have the Hernandez role. Allen is making too much money just to block.

Of course it's possible Garcia steps up out of nowhere, but you can't just assume someone already on the Pats roster or rookie can realistically step up and protect Brady in a pass heavy offense with a now 41 year old QB when the season starts.

The comparison I made for Clayborn to Ealy is that I could see Clayborn not even making the team. Wise having another year in the system will help him not being so undisciplined vs the run. He also needs to learn more pass rush moves than just the track star move. After teams picked up on his only move, he was invisible after week 3.

I agree that solid DT's make your overall run D look better than it might be (see the Vikings defense when they had Pat & Kevin Williams). However, their LB's had a phobia of defending passes in the flat and had a hard time defending RB's in general.

This is not by design. When they had Hightower, Mayo and Collins on the roster, did the exclusively run a two LB set? No. They wanted them all out there but Mayo regressed really bad. They do this now to try to hide their extremely putrid LB corps. I also think BB would rather run a 3-4 but he can't find the players to effectively run his style of defense. LB's are two small these days and it's hard to find DL like Warren and Seymour.

My issue is that they both aren't very good. Rowe couldn't play inside or outside gave up the most yards per play last year. This is all they talked about during Super Bowl week. Too many people here like Jones because he's "fast" but he got beat quite a bit last year.

I don't think there really is a "bigger back role", at least not by design. When the Pats have one, they'll scheme to make use of that size when they can (or have no other viable choice, like in 2016). Anyway, at 210 lbs, Gillislee is hardly a "bigger back" compared to Hill at 233 or Blount at 250.

And Gillislee didn't "fail" at anything. In spite of anecdotal "fan evidence" to the contrary, Gillislee consistently picked up the necessary yardage based on down and distance.

You may believe that Blount "more often than not could pick up a first down if the blocking was poor", but we'll never know because the Pats run-blocking was at or very near the top of the league in both 2016 and 2017.

Allen was one of the primary reasons that the 2017 run-blocking was so exceptional, as was Bennett in 2016. Allen was also critical to helping out the tackles in pass-pro. And yet, even with the current "situation" at LT, you think he's "overpaid?"

Wise was "invisible after week-3"? Two of his five regular season sacks came in weeks 15 & 16. And he had two more sacks against the Titans in the Divisional Round.

Solid DTs don't just "make your overall run D look better" - they're the critical anchor for a solid run defense.

Apparently you haven't noticed that the Pats have been running with 5 DBs and 2 LBs on 40%+ of the defensive snaps for years now - yes, even when they had HT, Collins and Mayo on the roster together. They went almost exclusively with 2 LBs in 2017, because they didn't have any more healthy LBs to put in there. LB effectiveness was poor because they healthy ones were woefully inexperienced and overworked - because the DL couldn't stop a minor nosebleed.

Jones "got beat quite a bit last year"? He allowed the lowest completion percentage, the lowest YPC and had the most PBU's per target of any of the Pats CB's last season. He played 439 D-snaps compared to Rowe's 239, and was targeted 51 times compared to Rowe's 20 times and Gilmore's 68. Jones isn't just fast. He's damn good.
 
Complete and total bs. Hospital ball my ass, the throw had nothing to do with it. TJ (Knee Hunter) Ward hit exactly what he was aiming at

You clearly don't know what a "Hospital Ball" is. Doesn't matter had he hit him low or high, Brady led Gronk right into that hit of TJ Ward. Gronk was clearly defenseless when he caught that ball and didn't have time to avoid it. Obviously Brady didn't do this on purpose as he probably didn't see Ward. Those types of throws only work in Madden.

These hits are the reason why Gronk is contemplating retirement.
 
You clearly don't know what a "Hospital Ball" is. Doesn't matter had he hit him low or high, Brady led Gronk right into that hit of TJ Ward. Gronk was clearly defenseless when he caught that ball and didn't have time to avoid it. Obviously Brady didn't do this on purpose as he probably didn't see Ward. Those types of throws only work in Madden.

These hits are the reason why Gronk is contemplating retirement.

You won today's trophy



Congrats.
 
You won today's trophy



Congrats.
The theme of this board - can't debate, just name call and criticize other posters when it doesn't go their way.
 
You clearly don't know what a "Hospital Ball" is. Doesn't matter had he hit him low or high, Brady led Gronk right into that hit of TJ Ward. Gronk was clearly defenseless when he caught that ball and didn't have time to avoid it. Obviously Brady didn't do this on purpose as he probably didn't see Ward. Those types of throws only work in Madden.

These hits are the reason why Gronk is contemplating retirement.
Gronk isn’t defenseless he is a runner at that point. If ward didn’t take the cheap shot at the knees Gronk would have pummeled him.
 
Gronk isn’t defenseless he is a runner at that point. If ward didn’t take the cheap shot at the knees Gronk would have pummeled him.
I guess we can agree to disagree. I see that he didn't have time to locate Ward and truck him.
 
The theme of this board - can't debate, just name call and criticize other posters when it doesn't go their way.

Maybe if you didn't post nonsense you would get the 'debate' you desire. Most intelligent people take the axioms 'fool me once...' and "Never argue with a fool, they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" to heart when in a forum environment. In this instance I went so far in as to include the vid to illustrate the point in the first place yet you tell me I clearly do not know what I am talking about. At least on this subject you have no clue what you are talking about. Not go my way?? lmao Your post contradicted itself and contains the seeds of it's own defeat. Throwing a 'hospital ball' and "he probably didn't see Ward" are pretty much mutually exclusive. Not to mention that's a very common pass and a dirty hit. You shouldn't confuse someone choosing not to engage someone else that doesn't understand the subject with someone unwilling to debate someone who simply disagrees. As a rule I enjoy a good debate, come at me with a good one and we will have it
 
Not much a fan of the clayborn signing. Could have gotten someone better on the interior on a one year deal. Teams need another LB and maybe a corner.

A lot of people are hyping shelton on this board. The guy was a dissapointment in Cleveland. Maybe it was the scheme but we will see once the season comes.
 
Maybe if you didn't post nonsense you would get the 'debate' you desire. Most intelligent people take the axioms 'fool me once...' and "Never argue with a fool, they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" to heart when in a forum environment. In this instance I went so far in as to include the vid to illustrate the point in the first place yet you tell me I clearly do not know what I am talking about. At least on this subject you have no clue what you are talking about. Not go my way?? lmao Your post contradicted itself and contains the seeds of it's own defeat. Throwing a 'hospital ball' and "he probably didn't see Ward" are pretty much mutually exclusive. Not to mention that's a very common pass and a dirty hit. You shouldn't confuse someone choosing not to engage someone else that doesn't understand the subject with someone unwilling to debate someone who simply disagrees. As a rule I enjoy a good debate, come at me with a good one and we will have it
Thanks for telling me how it is.

The point I made about Brady not seeing Ward is that I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that when he threw the ball that there was a clear path for Gronk. I believe there was not a clear path and the throw put him in danger of a cheap shot that he took.

That's fine if you disagree and think Gronk had time to make a football move and avoid TJ Ward's cheap shot. I don't think so.
 
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