Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[lancerman]

The only way it makes sense is if you subscribe to everything BB is about. Commitment to the team. Commitment to yourself to improve. Commitment to winning. Those are uncompromising tenants of his program. I'm sure he believes that if he allows an accommodation regardless of the magnitude of the game, there will be a cracking of the foundation so to speak.

He can believe that. But he has current and former players pissed at him. So much for fearing cracks in the foundation. Cause I see a lot of cracks today.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Umm, err, wow...seriously, butler does not want to even be there and people are blaming bb for butler’s actions????

What planet am i on?

I’m just confused that if all of this is true, he still dresses? Your not going to play unless we’re forced to play you due to injury. To me this was handled terribly.

 

[juny]

Glad we have some random Twitter account's unsourced claims as evidence now.

sharks of vegas?

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Curran has his take up:

Butler benching impacted legacies. How does it alter future?

What happened? We're working on it. But it may turn out to be a "last straw" violation that landed Butler on the bench as opposed to one act of insubordination or stupidity.

Look, I love Malcolm Butler's story as much as the next guy. His competitveness is admirable. But let's not make him out to be a martyr here. Lot to this story. Just because BB isn't giving you the rundown doesn't mean there's nothing there.

Butler's a good kid but he's routinely run afoul of rules since high school.

How does an SEC-level talent end up having to matriculate at West Alabama after getting kicked out of Hinds Community College? Decisions.

Remember Butler wasn't allowed to participate on the field in the 2015 minicamp because he missed a flight and showed up late?

Remember the Twitter "like" of a post earlier this year that was critical of the Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia's plan?

Remember the arm-waving and foot-stomping he'd do if he felt a teammate blew a coverage?

How many little things have there been? Who really knows?

and


And I suspect that Belichick didn't tell Butler or his replacement, Eric Rowe, well in advance because of the reaction it would spark from Butler and maybe from his teammates.

And their reaction is the tip of the iceberg. A Super Bowl win is worth millions to the franchise and ownership. It's legacy time down in Foxboro and Robert Kraft's is in there, too.

I have a feeling there's a General MacArthur-Harry Truman struggle going on where "the franchise" is Robert's but "the team" is Bill's.

And the eye-widening way the Jimmy Garoppolo trade played out feels a little like evidence of that as well.

I don't know how this all ends. But I'm damn sure it's not over.

 

[lancerman]

sharks of vegas?

lol I remember that

 

[Chris Stevenson]

His defense got torched in the secondary and they had their second best CB on the sideline crying because he just found out moments before the game that he wouldn't be playing. Meanwhile another CB found out right after the national anthem that he was starting.

So much for standards, principles, and rules. Even if you believe 100% in your heart that Belichick thought Butler not being out there before the game gave them a better chance to win... they were getting destroyed, why not give him a series and see if he's better?

I know you think Belichick can't do anything wrong, but this game hurt his legacy

Sure about that? Was butler really the second best against larger wrs??? Last time i checked, butler is about 5’10 which is why he wouldn’t be on say, smith schuster or martavis bryant, while rowe would be with help.

Seems our own fans do not remember mocking bb for “smurf” dbs from a handful of years ago.

The problem was not butler, the problem was his attitude and that philly has no real smallish wrs or a slot wr.

 

[Ring 6]

His defense got torched in the secondary and they had their second best CB on the sideline crying because he just found out moments before the game that he wouldn't be playing. Meanwhile another CB found out right after the national anthem that he was starting.

So much for standards, principles, and rules. Even if you believe 100% in your heart that Belichick thought Butler not being out there before the game gave them a better chance to win... they were getting destroyed, why not give him a series and see if he's better?

I know you think Belichick can't do anything wrong, but this game hurt his legacy

Clearly there was a reason butler was benched. Clearly it wasn’t because the best defense we could put on the field, whatever those issues aside, was one that had butler playing zero snaps.
Maybe B.B. did do wrong but if B.B. made this decision based upon the framework he has set up in this franchise and this was discipline consistent with what he has always done worth resoect to the violation then no its not wrong.

I’m not exactly sure what your argument is other than we lost so who can I blame.

 

[gronksmash]

Sounds a little too detailed to not be true. He was benched just because bb is a big meanie?

The crying on the sidelines makes me question his mental commitment, too. I think he was thinking he was a saint, but when it didn’t happen, he lost it. I think bb asked peyton to do that so butler would see he is not worth 12 mil per and a 2nd rd pick.

Haha what? This is professional sports not high school.

 

[Soliel]

He’s not good any more ever since he started using drugs his play has suffered

 

[luuked]

For thise saying why would he pkay himmin special teams, butler played 1 snap in special teams. for all we know that was a mistake because they neglected to tell him he was off that unit as well.

I said it before already. That one snap was most probaby when M. Flowers was being looked at after he remained down on ST.

 

[billikens]

If Butler had made that one tackle on third down that Bedemosi whiffed, even if nothing else differently or better, we likely would have won the game.

I'm not saying that as a knock on Belichick, but on Butler if the reports are true. I have to think something was up for him to be benched. Have you read Kevin Faulk's article in the Player's Tribune on the Patriot Way? Belichick hates it when you're late to a meeting. Remember when he didn't start Richard Seymour when Seymour was late getting home from his grandfather's funeral? This is real stuff. Belichick runs the team with strict discipline, which is why we have won so much. If Butler showed up intoxicated, after curfew, more than once, or anything like that, Belichick would have no option but to bench him or look like a hypocrite and lose credibility with the rest of the team. In other words, he would destroy the Patriot Way.

 

[EddardSnow67]

It wasn't even weed, which is a safe and well known drug. It was some synthetic crap marketed as weed. That stuff is totally unsafe and not well studied.

I agree with you, but technically what he was using is completely legal, whereas actual weed isn't in many places. The NFL also suspends players for marijuana usage, but not "spice," as they call it.

It's an indictment of our drug laws and the priorities of NFL teams and the league itself, though, as what you said about the relative safety of the two substances is absolutely true. Spice is essentially potpourri sprayed with various chemicals. But that's why Jones faced no real discipline for that transgression.

I'm not saying Belichick is callous, but he certainly doesn't seem to have much regard for the player in these situations. He cares more about how the player's actions impact the team. That's been his operating procedure since he got to NE.

Those four points made a big difference in how the end of the game played out, however. With those four points the Patriots would have been down 38-37 after the Eagles scored their last touchdown and only needed a field goal to win the game. The Eagles line would not have been able to assume that Brady was going to pass the ball and a strip sack would have been a lot less likely. Obviously, the defense bears most of the blame for the loss, but the missed XP and field goal is not a nitpicky gripe.

Sure it is, when your kicker was 92.5% for the season and you've had minimal special teams miscues throughout he season and every other aspect of special teams is solid. They were 2-for-3 on field goals and the snap was bobbled. That's the type of thing that happens sometimes in big games.

As far as game situations and how they would differ based on hypotheticals, that's a futile endeavor, considering we just have no idea what would have happened. You really can't definitively say how things would have changed.

It's nitpicky, in my opinion, because the game wasn't won or lost based on that four points. That much we can definitively say, considering the final margin was eight points. You simply can't assume anything and I don't think those miscues should be mentioned in the same breath as the defensive struggles.

However, we're really getting into a lot of subjective, hypothetical stuff here. You have a right to express your opinion and perhaps you're right. I just prefer to focus on what wasn't a fluke, which is to say the defensive performance.

 

[primetime]

Sounds a little too detailed to not be true. He was benched just because bb is a big meanie?

The crying on the sidelines makes me question his mental commitment, too. I think he was thinking he was a saint, but when it didn’t happen, he lost it. I think bb asked peyton to do that so butler would see he is not worth 12 mil per and a 2nd rd pick.

Seems a little too detailed to not be true, don't you think?

 

[Vindicate]

I see it being last second because there's no way they want those antics leaking to the press as a distraction.

If it's true, Butler put the coaches in a tough position, and pushed the envelope at his teams expense on the biggest stage.

Call me crazy, but it makes sense to me. I was reaming Bill last night but as a Patriot, you know what flys and what doesn't. And that **** definitely does not.

 

[Ring 6]

I said it before already. That one snap was most probaby when M. Flowers was being looked at after he remained down on ST.

Or he was on the punt return unit because it only played 1 snap.

 

[Deus Irae]

The only way it makes sense is if you subscribe to everything BB is about. Commitment to the team. Commitment to yourself to improve. Commitment to winning. Those are uncompromising tenants of his program. I'm sure he believes that if he allows an accommodation regardless of the magnitude of the game, there will be a cracking of the foundation so to speak.

I'm not speculating with the following statement. I'm just responding to your "accommodation" comment:

My definition of commitment to team doesn't include needlessly pissing away your best opportunity to win a SB because you have a hair across your ass about a player who you can move on from in about 12 hours. If Bill's definition does include that, he needs to change his definition.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Curran has his take up:

Butler benching impacted legacies. How does it alter future?

What happened? We're working on it. But it may turn out to be a "last straw" violation that landed Butler on the bench as opposed to one act of insubordination or stupidity.

Look, I love Malcolm Butler's story as much as the next guy. His competitveness is admirable. But let's not make him out to be a martyr here. Lot to this story. Just because BB isn't giving you the rundown doesn't mean there's nothing there.

Butler's a good kid but he's routinely run afoul of rules since high school.

How does an SEC-level talent end up having to matriculate at West Alabama after getting kicked out of Hinds Community College? Decisions.

Remember Butler wasn't allowed to participate on the field in the 2015 minicamp because he missed a flight and showed up late?

Remember the Twitter "like" of a post earlier this year that was critical of the Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia's plan?

Remember the arm-waving and foot-stomping he'd do if he felt a teammate blew a coverage?

How many little things have there been? Who really knows?

and


And I suspect that Belichick didn't tell Butler or his replacement, Eric Rowe, well in advance because of the reaction it would spark from Butler and maybe from his teammates.

And their reaction is the tip of the iceberg. A Super Bowl win is worth millions to the franchise and ownership. It's legacy time down in Foxboro and Robert Kraft's is in there, too.

I have a feeling there's a General MacArthur-Harry Truman struggle going on where "the franchise" is Robert's but "the team" is Bill's.

And the eye-widening way the Jimmy Garoppolo trade played out feels a little like evidence of that as well.

I don't know how this all ends. But I'm damn sure it's not over.

See, that “foot stomping”comment ties into my fingerpointing point way back on this thread.

Everyone scapegoated gilmore, but butler was jealous of gilmore’s contract because bb knows butler is not a man lock down cb and butler could not handle it, even though bb reportedly offered him a generous 8 mil per.

I bet bb was trying to move him at the deadline and to promote bademosi if he needed to. Jon jones then would have been the defacto slot cb.

 

[lancerman]

Curran has his take up:

Butler benching impacted legacies. How does it alter future?

What happened? We're working on it. But it may turn out to be a "last straw" violation that landed Butler on the bench as opposed to one act of insubordination or stupidity.

Look, I love Malcolm Butler's story as much as the next guy. His competitveness is admirable. But let's not make him out to be a martyr here. Lot to this story. Just because BB isn't giving you the rundown doesn't mean there's nothing there.

Butler's a good kid but he's routinely run afoul of rules since high school.

How does an SEC-level talent end up having to matriculate at West Alabama after getting kicked out of Hinds Community College? Decisions.

Remember Butler wasn't allowed to participate on the field in the 2015 minicamp because he missed a flight and showed up late?

Remember the Twitter "like" of a post earlier this year that was critical of the Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia's plan?

Remember the arm-waving and foot-stomping he'd do if he felt a teammate blew a coverage?

How many little things have there been? Who really knows?

and


And I suspect that Belichick didn't tell Butler or his replacement, Eric Rowe, well in advance because of the reaction it would spark from Butler and maybe from his teammates.

And their reaction is the tip of the iceberg. A Super Bowl win is worth millions to the franchise and ownership. It's legacy time down in Foxboro and Robert Kraft's is in there, too.

I have a feeling there's a General MacArthur-Harry Truman struggle going on where "the franchise" is Robert's but "the team" is Bill's.

And the eye-widening way the Jimmy Garoppolo trade played out feels a little like evidence of that as well.

I don't know how this all ends. But I'm damn sure it's not over.

So assuming I take this at face value.. (I'm not)

Belichick decided the most important game in the season was his moment to make a line in the stand against a player he had issues with for awhile. Didn't tell him or the guy filling in for him because it might have upset the rest of the team to not have the second best CB out there. And might have also kept it close to his vest because he didn't want the owner getting wind of this and worrying that it might cost the team a Super Bowl which would be against the franchises best interests.

So if I believe this, then I have to assume that the franchise has reached a point of dysfunction not seen since the 90's and I'd also have to assume the ESPN article was 100% correct.

Or I can take it as a grain of salt. Idk. Either way it's a bad look.

 

[Steve102]

Sounds a little too detailed to not be true. He was benched just because bb is a big meanie?

The crying on the sidelines makes me question his mental commitment, too. I think he was thinking he was a saint, but when it didn’t happen, he lost it. I think bb asked peyton to do that so butler would see he is not worth 12 mil per and a 2nd rd pick.

Wait. Belichick colluded with a coach on another team to drive down a player's value? Is that what you're saying?

I think I just took the bait. d%#*!@t.

 

[PatsfanTN]

He’s not good any more ever since he started using drugs his play has suffered

Wait what? What drugs are you using?