Still Have Not Heard It Yet

[sb1]

Can't fault the quarterback when he hands the defensive unit the keys with the lead while telling them that all that unit has to do is not allow a touchdown... and then that unit allows an 88 yard drive for a touchdown while leaving the offense with very little time to respond.

Yep.

When the defense allows that game winning TD drive and also allows the league worst rush offense to punch them in the mouth like that... the QB isn't the one that should take the majority of the blame of that loss.

The drops on our final drive didn't help the offense respond either. We can debate the Welker drop but the other two were egregious.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

The 2011 Pats allowed the 32nd ranked - that would be the league worst - Giants rush offense to get 114 yards on 28 carries and 7 first downs via rush and of course the game winning TD to Bradshaw.

The defense was just awful in that game.

What on earth? GB's was "31st ranked" and just won a SB the year before. Anyone using "passing yards" to described a D is probably a fan of a team that builds a 4-3 D like it's 2001 and gets gassed by the 4th qtr chasing people around with scheming in between the 20s, only to give up more points than what they should.

NY's D was "27th ranked" by yards, which means they allowed a few less yards. Do you realize how outdated "yards allowed" is, especially passing yards, when judging a D in this era?

The fact is, NE's D was good at stopping the run, holding lead RBs to around 80-90 yards per game, was good in the red zone and led the AFC in turnovers created. Their weaknesses were depth (Edelman was at nickel and Moore was our starting LCB), some talent, but mainly lack of experience.

How can a D that allowed 13 points, begging fo rthe offense to pitch in and even just get a FG to ice the game, "awful"?? That makes no sense. Have you seen other Super Bowls with Ds allowing 28+ points and losing? I can rattle numerous supposed superior Ds that fall into that category.

It would have been the fewest points allowed in a SB since the 2000 Ravens.

And, the TOP issue was more about some god awful 1st down decisions by Brady, which could have been easily up to 3+ minutes of clock, if not more.

Do you watch games or just read box score? My goodness. Clearly, the D was the weaker component, but they OUTPLAYED the offense in the postseason.

We aren't even in SB 42 or Sb 46 without the Ds!

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Yep.

When the defense allows that game winning TD drive and also allows the league worst rush offense to punch them in the mouth like that... the QB isn't the one that should take the majority of the blame of that loss.

The drops on our final drive didn't help the offense respond either. We can debate the Welker drop but the other two were egregious.

Umm, every single D at the end of a SB in a dome is gassed. Philly's D wil probably be gassed after chasing our RBs and quick receivers around all game, during a 4 hour Super Bowl in a dome with 80K in there, a halftime show, etc. The team that manages the clock best and has the ball last, usually wins.

GB did it in 2011, Baltimore BARELY did it even though Kaepernick, Seattle ran roughshod over Denver, so that doesn't apply there, same deal with Denver on Carolina.

But, without question this is an offensive era, where everything flows through offenses. To pretend the offense is not to be held accountable, is absolutely laughable, especially when you run around yelling out "GOAT" all day long. Brady was mediocre at best and mediocre QBs don't win SBs in this era. End of story.

Go ahead and throw those Brady footie pajamas into the washing machine, as they need a good wash.

This is why fans all over the country mock Pats fans. Too many of our fans can never admit Brady has an off day.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Can't fault the quarterback when he hands the defensive unit the keys with the lead while telling them that all that unit has to do is not allow a touchdown... and then that unit allows an 88 yard drive for a touchdown while leaving the offense with very little time to respond.

Yes, you can fault the offense which wildly under-performed from their season average as the D OVER-Performed from their season average.

If Brady is the GOAT, why is a mediocre or at times, unacceptable performance, ok?

The game isn't just played in the last 2 mins.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

If your offense scores ZERO points for an entire half of a SB, and your own D keeps holding to FGs, over and over and over, anyone who claims that is on the D, clearly needs to attend night school at the very least.

That's just insulting to every honest Pats' fans' intelligence.

Period.

This isn't 1981 anymore. SBs are won with offense. End of story.

BB knows it, which is why he builds these teams the way he does. It's a war of attrition on offense since 2006. You need a great offense and a good defense. We have these things, and there is no debate that the D outplayed the offense in 2007 and 2011's postseasons. It's in no way, shape or form a debate.

I still get heckling texts from friends about Brady and the offense's choke jobs. Sb 42, in particular. He goes in laughing at Burress's prediction and then craps himself on the field for 4 qtrs. Super.

FAIL

If we do not score at least 20 points from the offense in this game, we lose.

I can tell you that RIGHT NOW. Holy mackerel. Have you been living under a rock?

 

[Kontradiction]

Yes, you can fault the offense which wildly under-performed from their season average as the D OVER-Performed from their season average.

If Brady is the GOAT, why is a mediocre or at times, unacceptable performance, ok?

The game isn't just played in the last 2 mins.

I see you’re not going to touch my last post. I wouldn’t either if I were in your shoes. The D didn’t over-perform at all. Hence 30-40 in passing attempts for Eli, getting gouged on the ground, a quarter more T.O.P. for the Giants, and an 88 yard TD drive to seal the win for New York. Why do you think they were content with letting Bradshaw score? Belichick couldn’t trust that unit to stop them down there and trusted Brady more. That very last sentence should tell you all you need to know about your argument here.

 

[sb1]

What on earth? GB's was "31st ranked" and just won a SB the year before. Anyone using "passing yards" to described a D is probably a fan of a team that builds a 4-3 D like it's 2001 and gets gassed by the 4th qtr chasing people around with scheming in between the 20s, only to give up more points than what they should.

Do you ever hear about a good defense ranked at or near the bottom of the league vs the pass? Or giving up 400 yards passing to JAGs like Vince Young? Me neither.

Perhaps you prefer yards allowed per play. The Pats were 29th in that category.

NY's D was "27th ranked" by yards, which means they allowed a few less yards.

Yes the Giants were not that good either. And that's the only reason why that game was close.

The fact is, NE's D was good at stopping the run, holding lead RBs to around 80 yards per game, was good in the red zone and led the AFC in turnovers created. Their weaknesses were depth (Edelman was at nickel and Moore was our starting LCB), some talent, but mainly lack of experience.

They weren't good at stopping the run in the Super Bowl, that's for sure.

And it sounds like you're describing the Colts defense in the 2000's, the one that we made fun of all the time. They too were very good at getting turnovers. And yet nobody called them a good defense.

Regardless of the reason why they sucked... they sucked.

How can a D that allowed 13 points, begging fo rthe offense to pitch in and even just get a FG to ice the game, "awful"??

Like I said because those Giants were not that good either. Most consider them the worst Super Bowl team of all time. If the Pats defense was good, the NYG were a candidate to get shut out.

Sorry... I saw a defense get punched in the mouth by the league worst rush offense. There really is no other sensible conclusion than the fact they did NOT have a good game in any way, shape or form and that's why they lost that football game, more than anything the QB did or didn't do.

 

[sb1]

Umm, every single D at the end of a SB in a dome is gassed. Philly's D wil probably be gassed after chasing our RBs and quick receivers around all game, during a 4 hour Super Bowl in a dome with 80K in there, a halftime show, etc. The team that manages the clock best and has the ball last, usually wins.

GB did it in 2011, Baltimore BARELY did it even though Kaepernick, Seattle ran roughshod over Denver, so that doesn't apply there, same deal with Denver on Carolina.

But, without question this is an offensive era, where everything flows through offenses. To pretend the offense is not to be held accountable, is absolutely laughable, especially when you run around yelling out "GOAT" all day long. Brady was mediocre at best and mediocre QBs don't win SBs in this era. End of story.

Go ahead and throw those Brady footie pajamas into the washing machine, as they need a good wash.

This is why fans all over the country mock Pats fans. Too many of our fans can never admit Brady has an off day.

I take it you didn't read the part of my post where I said Brady did not have his best game.

But no I won't blame him as the only reason why we lost. Because he wasn't.

 

[sb1]

If your offense scores ZERO points for an entire half of a SB, and your own D keeps holding to FGs, over and over and over, anyone who claims that is on the D, clearly needs to attend night school at the very least.

That's just insulting to every honest Pats' fans' intelligence.

Period.

This isn't 1981 anymore. SBs are won with offense. End of story.

BB knows it, which is why he builds these teams the way he does. It's a war of attrition on offense since 2006. You need a great offense and a good defense. We have these things, and there is no debate that the D outplayed the offense in 2007 and 2011's postseasons. It's in no way, shape or form a debate.

I still get heckling texts from friends about Brady and the offense's choke jobs. Sb 42, in particular. He goes in laughing at Burress's prediction and then craps himself on the field for 4 qtrs. Super.

FAIL

If we do not score at least 20 points from the offense in this game, we lose.

I can tell you that RIGHT NOW. Holy mackerel. Have you been living under a rock?

Yes, that was stupid for Tom to scoff at that, and he learned his lesson. I doubt any Pats fan would disagree with that.

The defense was trash in 2011 and ultimately cost the Patriots the Super Bowl and should have cost them even a trip there. You can deny it, spin it, justify it all you want but that doesn't change the facts.

 

[sb1]

Yes, you can fault the offense which wildly under-performed from their season average as the D OVER-Performed from their season average.

If Brady is the GOAT, why is a mediocre or at times, unacceptable performance, ok?

The game isn't just played in the last 2 mins.

When you get taken to school during the season by Dan Orlovsky and a 2-14 Colts team... "over performing" isn't a high bar to jump over.

 

[sb1]

As for your real argument... yes I'm sure JG presence pushed Brady a bit to get better. Why wouldn't it? I'm sure he was drafted with the intent to replace Brady anticipating a Brady decline... which did not happen.

It doesn't matter now though, he is gone.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

When you get taken to school during the season by Dan Orlovsky and a 2-14 Colts team... "over performing" isn't a high bar to jump over.

Is that the same thing as being taken to the shed by DeShaun Watson, a rookie, overrated Cam Newton or Alex Smith at home?

Whos cares what happened during the season? I am talking about what ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN THE POSTSEASON.

You sound like Reggie Bush telling Foles to "watch game film on NE's D in Sept".

lol

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Yes, that was stupid for Tom to scoff at that, and he learned his lesson. I doubt any Pats fan would disagree with that.

The defense was trash in 2011 and ultimately cost the Patriots the Super Bowl and should have cost them even a trip there. You can deny it, spin it, justify it all you want but that doesn't change the facts.

The defense OVER-ACHIEVED off the Lockout as BB rebuilt it. That has no bearing as to what factually unfolded on your tv screen.

Brady was TRASH in each title game, he admitted as much in the postgame interview (thankfully) after Sterling Moore/Billy Cundiff saved the game, and Brady didn't respond well in SB 42 or SB 46 like I thought he would.

Brady was complacent with all his success.

Head got a bit big.

Sucks to admit, but it's true, IMO. BB drafted Garoppolo and Brady changed for the better.

There is no way you can tell me Brady's postseasons from 2007-2012, are on the same level of his 2014-2017 postseasons.

Do you realize, if not for Hightower/Bronwer/Butler at the end of SB 49, that D allowed 31 points instead of its 24, and the 2011 D would have allowed just 13 vs NYGs, if JUST 1 of Brady's god awful gaffes on 1st downs, never happened on clock alone.

 

[Kontradiction]

Is that the same thing as being taken to the shed by DeShaun Watson, a rookie, overrated Cam Newton or Alex Smith at home?

Whos cares what happened during the season? I am talking about what ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN THE POSTSEASON.

You sound like Reggie Bush telling Foles to "watch game film on NE's D in Sept".

lol

They were brutal in the Super Bowl as well so I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Again, you seem to know this but are choosing to dig your feet in instead of accepting it.

 

[sb1]

Is that the same thing as being taken to the shed by DeShaun Watson, a rookie, overrated Cam Newton or Alex Smith at home?

Whos cares what happened during the season? I am talking about what ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN THE POSTSEASON.

You sound like Reggie Bush telling Foles to "watch game film on NE's D in Sept".

lol

You’re comparing Dan Orlovsky to a very promising rookie, a former NFL MVP and plus another guy who helped the Chiefs get to the playoffs and gave the Wentz Eagles their only loss of the season.

Lol indeed.

And Orlovsky wasn’t the only JAG who took them to school and you know that.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I take it you didn't read the part of my post where I said Brady did not have his best game.

But no I won't blame him as the only reason why we lost. Because he wasn't.

He and the entire offense. His offense. He runs the offense. Even the approach and gameplans sucked throwing 45+ times of the those shotguns, with literally no run game even committed to.

 

[sb1]

He and the entire offense. His offense. He runs the offense. Even the approach and gameplans sucked throwing 45+ times of the those shotguns, with literally no run game even committed to.

For good reason IMO. Law Firm was as JAG as JAGs come. There was no run game to commit to.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

You’re comparing Dan Orlovsky to a very promising rookie, a former NFL MVP and plus another guy who helped the Chiefs get to the playoffs and gave the Wentz Eagles their only loss of the season.

Lol indeed.

And Orlovsky wasn’t the only JAG who took them to school and you know that.

I am not comparing the levels of each's talent. I comparing how silly it is to refer to a red herring as if it means something in January/February.

When Matt Schaub dusted our dynasty defense in 2005, did you you also have this reaction then?

They're outlier examples. Red Herrings. "Brady destroyed his phone"...No, he didn't. He bought a new one, creeped by the NFL front offices, and had an assistant destroy it.

You're pretty desperate here.

 

[sb1]

The defense OVER-ACHIEVED off the Lockout as BB rebuilt it. That has no bearing as to what factually unfolded on your tv screen.

Brady was TRASH in each title game, he admitted as much in the postgame interview (thankfully) after Sterling Moore/Billy Cundiff saved the game, and Brady didn't respond well in SB 42 or SB 46 like I thought he would.

Brady was complacent with all his success.

Head got a bit big.

Sucks to admit, but it's true, IMO. BB drafted Garoppolo and Brady changed for the better.

There is no way you can tell me Brady's postseasons from 2007-2012, are on the same level of his 2014-2017 postseasons.

Do you realize, if not for Hightower/Bronwer/Butler at the end of SB 49, that D allowed 31 points instead of its 24, and the 2011 D would have allowed just 13 vs NYGs, if JUST 1 of Brady's god awful gaffes on 1st downs, never happened on clock alone.

The 2011 Giants offense doesn't belong in the same sentence as the 2014 Seahawks. If a trash defense like the 2011 Patriots were allowed 13 to those Giants, how many would they have allowed to SEA who was far superior? 50? 60?

 

[Richard Camembert]

Why would Michael Irvin want the Eagles to win? Didnt the Eagles injure him and essentially end his career?

Because right now only two teams have won 3 out of 4 SB, the Cowboys and the Patriots, and if the Patriots do it twice then the Cowboys’ achievement is no longer unique or special.

ETA I heard Moose Johnston, the great fullback from those Cowboys teams, voice the same sentiment on Toucher and Rich this morning. Which, believe it or not, is on topic for this public whipping of a thread.