NFL coaching and executives carousel: news and speculation

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Reverse the example. If the primary candidate were black and the rule said you had to interview white candidates and a white candidate got an obligatory interview, impressed and got the job over the black candidate that had it locked up isn’t that racism?

No. Not in any sense, at all. Being the "primary candidate" doesn't entitle you to a job, especially if you lose out to a more impressive candidate. Nothing in the example you gave is racism, you're talking about discrimination.

There is discrimination involved if there is a limit to the amount of candidates that can be interviewed, but there is no such limit for Rooney Rule purposes.

 

[patfanken]

Getting off the racism "discussion" for a second. Bedard had an interesting take on McDaniels HCing prospects. He was the one guy I thought was surely going, and Patricia, not so much. Bedard had the opposite take. He thinks the Detroit gig will be Patricia's for the asking. However he thins McDaniel might not leave because he risks having a GM he can't work with.

He'd feel comfortable with the Lions, but that gig is likely going to a defensive guy (Patricia), since they want to keep Jim Bob Couter. While the Giants, Colts, and Bears (the 3 jobs McDaniels is in line for) all have GMs in place.

Gettleman is supposedly a good GM with successes in his background. But in the Giants organizational system, the GM runs the show, and while Josh might not need to "run the entire operation" he WILL need to have a real comfort level with the GM. That might not happen in NY.

It was as surprising to be me that Pace was retained as Lewis, but he was. I think that is a deal breaker in Chicago even though the rest of the boxes are ticked off. Talented QB. stable ownersip, great fan base.

Indy is a possibility because Ballard looks like he's doing the right things and he and McDaniels have a history. But the looming shadow of Irsay makes the Colts no sure thing.

I've opined for a while that it would take the perfect job to get McDaniels to uproot his family. None of these are perfect. So perhaps Josh Might not move at all. He could decide to stay and wait for Bill to retire, or if/when the Tennessee job opens up.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Getting off the racism "discussion" for a second. Bedard had an interesting take on McDaniels HCing prospects. He was the one guy I thought was surely going, and Patricia, not so much. Bedard had the opposite take. He thinks the Detroit gig will be Patricia's for the asking. However he thins McDaniel might not leave because he risks having a GM he can't work with.

He'd feel comfortable with the Lions, but that gig is likely going to a defensive guy (Patricia), since they want to keep Jim Bob Couter. While the Giants, Colts, and Bears (the 3 jobs McDaniels is in line for) all have GMs in place.

Gettleman is supposedly a good GM with successes in his background. But in the Giants organizational system, the GM runs the show, and while Josh might not need to "run the entire operation" he WILL need to have a real comfort level with the GM. That might not happen in NY.

It was as surprising to be me that Pace was retained as Lewis, but he was. I think that is a deal breaker in Chicago even though the rest of the boxes are ticked off. Talented QB. stable ownersip, great fan base.

Indy is a possibility because Ballard looks like he's doing the right things and he and McDaniels have a history. But the looming shadow of Irsay makes the Colts no sure thing.

I've opined for a while that it would take the perfect job to get McDaniels to uproot his family. None of these are perfect. So perhaps Josh Might not move at all. He could decide to stay and wait for Bill to retire, or if/when the Tennessee job opens up.

I am a fan of both of these two coaches, but would prefer Patricia stay more. If he turns down Detroit there's a really good chance they're both back for next year.

 

[Love The Drake]

Also Ben McDaniels is in Chicago which to me makes them tbe favorite.

Getting off the racism "discussion" for a second. Bedard had an interesting take on McDaniels HCing prospects. He was the one guy I thought was surely going, and Patricia, not so much. Bedard had the opposite take. He thinks the Detroit gig will be Patricia's for the asking. However he thins McDaniel might not leave because he risks having a GM he can't work with.

He'd feel comfortable with the Lions, but that gig is likely going to a defensive guy (Patricia), since they want to keep Jim Bob Couter. While the Giants, Colts, and Bears (the 3 jobs McDaniels is in line for) all have GMs in place.

Gettleman is supposedly a good GM with successes in his background. But in the Giants organizational system, the GM runs the show, and while Josh might not need to "run the entire operation" he WILL need to have a real comfort level with the GM. That might not happen in NY.

It was as surprising to be me that Pace was retained as Lewis, but he was. I think that is a deal breaker in Chicago even though the rest of the boxes are ticked off. Talented QB. stable ownersip, great fan base.

Indy is a possibility because Ballard looks like he's doing the right things and he and McDaniels have a history. But the looming shadow of Irsay makes the Colts no sure thing.

I've opined for a while that it would take the perfect job to get McDaniels to uproot his family. None of these are perfect. So perhaps Josh Might not move at all. He could decide to stay and wait for Bill to retire, or if/when the Tennessee job opens up.

 

[Ring 6]

No. Not in any sense, at all. Being the "primary candidate" doesn't entitle you to a job, especially if you lose out to a more impressive candidate. Nothing in the example you gave is racism, you're talking about discrimination.

There is discrimination involved if there is a limit to the amount of candidates that can be interviewed, but there is no such limit for Rooney Rule purposes.

Rules about interviewing people because of their race is racism.

 

[Ring 6]

Getting off the racism "discussion" for a second. Bedard had an interesting take on McDaniels HCing prospects. He was the one guy I thought was surely going, and Patricia, not so much. Bedard had the opposite take. He thinks the Detroit gig will be Patricia's for the asking. However he thins McDaniel might not leave because he risks having a GM he can't work with.

He'd feel comfortable with the Lions, but that gig is likely going to a defensive guy (Patricia), since they want to keep Jim Bob Couter. While the Giants, Colts, and Bears (the 3 jobs McDaniels is in line for) all have GMs in place.

Gettleman is supposedly a good GM with successes in his background. But in the Giants organizational system, the GM runs the show, and while Josh might not need to "run the entire operation" he WILL need to have a real comfort level with the GM. That might not happen in NY.

It was as surprising to be me that Pace was retained as Lewis, but he was. I think that is a deal breaker in Chicago even though the rest of the boxes are ticked off. Talented QB. stable ownersip, great fan base.

Indy is a possibility because Ballard looks like he's doing the right things and he and McDaniels have a history. But the looming shadow of Irsay makes the Colts no sure thing.

I've opined for a while that it would take the perfect job to get McDaniels to uproot his family. None of these are perfect. So perhaps Josh Might not move at all. He could decide to stay and wait for Bill to retire, or if/when the Tennessee job opens up.

There will never be a perfect job.

 

[Ring 6]

Ron Rivera had already interviewed with the Steelers at the point that Tomlin was interviewed. They had fulfilled the requirement. Tomlin blew Rooney away in the interview and was hired. There is no quota or edict to hire, so the only thing preventing Whisenhunt and Grimm from getting the job was their own personalities. Neither has done anything since to make it look like the wrong choice.

I was giving a hypothetical example.
What they did afterward has no relevance.
If in fact the Rooney rule forces an interview that wouldn’t otherwise happen and that person gets hired the racist nature of the rule would have resulted in consequences for the guy who would have otherwise gotten the job.

 

[FortressX]

Packers let go of Capers, McCurley, Trgovac, Alex Van Pelt, Bennett
Sources: Packers OC Bennett let go

 

[Ring 6]

Packers let go of Capers, McCurley, Trgovac, Alex Van Pelt, Bennett
Sources: Packers OC Bennett let go

That’s a house cleaning

 

[FortressX]

Yes but they missed something imo.

 

[fnordcircle]

I could see Denver embarking on a 5 year playoff drought.

They mortgaged their future to get to the SB. Just sucks that it paid off for them, I would have loved to see all that money spent on Manning, Ware, Ward, Sanders and Welker amount to jack ****.

 

[Ring 6]

They mortgaged their future to get to the SB. Just sucks that it paid off for them, I would have loved to see all that money spent on Manning, Ware, Ward, Sanders and Welker amount to jack ****.

If only the SB had come down to manning needing to play well or make a clutch play

 

[Deus Irae]

it's not racism when the vast majority of candidates are white. There is no onus to hire.
Call it positive discrimination if you feel the need to give it a handle.
I think if you ever lived somewhere that discriminated against your race you'd feel differently

Your post is ridiculous. Of course it's racism. It's the very definition of it.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I was giving a hypothetical example.
What they did afterward has no relevance.
If in fact the Rooney rule forces an interview that wouldn’t otherwise happen and that person gets hired the racist nature of the rule would have resulted in consequences for the guy who would have otherwise gotten the job.

You are repeating the same bad argument, and ignoring that the word you are looking for is discrimination. Yes, feel bad for Russ Grimm all you want. Poor Ken Whisenhunt. A lot of teams are interviewing 5-7 people for head coaching jobs, if the preferred guy/frontrunner can't beat out one more candidate---especially if that coach is only there to comply-- why is he your guy to begin with?

If a GM really doesn't want to have to interview a coach, and does so only because he is forced to... why would he hire him? Are you worried about some sort of spell being cast in the interview? This is a one day annoyance in the life of Matt Millen or Mark Davis, and a chance to hire someone you wouldn't have thought of otherwise. There was nothing stopping Pittsburgh from hiring those guys; they didn't want to.

I have no tears for a frontrunner losing to an underdog at the game being played. But next time the Pats cut a 4th rounder for a rookie free agent, I'll know that you're sad, because what if that were you that expected to make the team and then a guy who was better took your spot? No fair! I can only imagine how you must have felt when the training camp rosters expanded to 90 and that happened. Those guys weren't even supposed to be there! (stomps feet) What they did afterward has no relevance!

 

[TommyD4207]

Gruden should bring competition to the afc.

Check out Gruden's last 6 seasons in Tampa. It's a lot like Harbaugh's last 5 years in Baltimore.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Your post is ridiculous. Of course it's racism. It's the very definition of it.

It is actually not, no matter how many times you say so. You are talking about discrimination.

The "very definition" of racism concerns the belief of racial superiority. racism | Definition of racism in English by Oxford Dictionaries

The word discrimination is the word that fits here.
discrimination | Definition of discrimination in English by Oxford Dictionaries

 

[varjao]

Yes but they missed something imo.

Yeah, big time, McCarthy is way past his shelf life in GB.

 

[Ring 6]

You are repeating the same bad argument, and ignoring that the word you are looking for is discrimination.

I keep repeating my argument because it is correct. Basing actions on race is racism. If i treat 2 people differently because of their race it is racism, hence if I must interview someone from one RACE it is racism.
Discrimination would be to take actions such as not hiring, firing, etc a person weighting the decision by a factor such as race, sex or sexual orientation. All you need to do is go read the definition of the words and you will understand.

Yes, feel bad for Russ Grimm all you want. Poor Ken Whisenhunt. A lot of teams are interviewing 5-7 people for head coaching jobs, if the preferred guy/frontrunner can't beat out one more candidate---especially if that coach is only there to comply-- why is he your guy to begin with?

What does feeling bad for anyone have to do with it. I am simply pointing out an example where this policy could have a negative effect on someone. You’ll have to show me where I said this particular example would be something to feel sorry about.

If a GM really doesn't want to have to interview a coach, and does so only because he is forced to... why would he hire him? Are you worried about some sort of spell being cast in the interview?

This has nothing to do with the fact that the policy is racist.
If there is some benefit to a person if one race from the Rooney rule that would naturally mean this creates some type of advantage. Again if the rule said you were forced to interview a white candidate there would be outcries and lawsuits. Racist policies do not have to favor the majority race to be racist.

This is a one day annoyance in the life of Matt Millen or Mark Davis, and a chance to hire someone you wouldn't have thought of otherwise. There was nothing stopping Pittsburgh from hiring those guys; they didn't want to.

Potential consequences exist, but don’t need to in order to recognize it’s a racist policy.

[quote{I have no tears for a frontrunner losing to an underdog at the game being played. But next time the Pats cut a 4th rounder for a rookie free agent, I'll know that you're sad, because what if that were you that expected to make the team and then a guy who was better took your spot? No fair! I can only imagine how you must have felt when the training camp rosters expanded to 90 and that happened. Those guys weren't even supposed to be there! (stomps feet) What they did afterward has no relevance![/QUOTE]
Now you are being an idiot, and I am through with you.

 

[Deus Irae]

It is actually not, no matter how many times you say so. You are talking about discrimination.

The "very definition" of racism concerns the belief of racial superiority. racism | Definition of racism in English by Oxford Dictionaries

The word discrimination is the word that fits here.
discrimination | Definition of discrimination in English by Oxford Dictionaries

It actually is.

1 : belief that certain races of people are by birth and nature superior to others
2 : discrimination or hatred based on race

Definition of RACISM
The Rooney rule is clearly discrimination (what's required/accepted for one is not required/accepted for all), and it's based upon race. Therefore, it's the "very definition" of racism.

If you want to argue that said definition should not be applied in the world, I'd be thrilled to hear you argue that in front of the USSC.

 

[Love The Drake]

Report: Cowboys assistant coach could leave for Patriots?
No idea if this is legit but claiming we could be looking to the Cowboys to replace Patricia.
Makes no sense to me I'd rather promote Flo if he doesn't land a head job elsewhere.