Patriots acquire Marquis Flowers from Cincinnati for a 7th Round Pick

[BobDigital]

I made this joke before but: Do you want to make flowers today!?

First season was great... The second season... Well if time is a flat circle then that will suck again, and again and again.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Cooks, Butlers and the Usher must all dress in Cotton and put the White Flowers in a neat Rowe on the Branch as a Valentine. Have the Mason, the Slater and that other Guy use those two Allen wrenches and Solder to fix the Cannon on top of the High Tower next to the River overlooking the Moore. I want no Killings and no Jonesing before the Wise King gets here in his Carr!

 

[Uptown]

So they can field a team with Two Flowers by the Rivers and a Wise Guy all lined up on the defensive line ?

Ok...sooo I've obviously got waayyy too much time on my hands ...

The 2 Wise Guy Butlers Will Likely avoid their Killings by tending to the King's Flowers and Brown Branches by the Rivers on Valentine's Day in order to live in perfect Harmon(y) while roasting Bad(emosi) Marsh-mellows by the fire.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Part of me feels like a big reason the Pats trade away 7th round picks is for value. Other teams value the pick and frankly I wonder if they are worth having. What is the difference between most 7th round picks and UDFAs?

One is you get an extra year on the draft pick in the contract but the contract is actually substantially bigger per year.

And UDFA makes right now 1.65M over 3 years so an average of .55M and also just .465M the first year. That is the same for any position even premier ones. It is much easier to move on from such a player very quickly were as a draft pick even a late one might cost you a decent chunk of change to move on from for a player who was so high risk in the first place.

A 7th round picks makes 2.4-3M depending on position with signing bonuses typically over 60K. That is about .75M a year with more real money at risk if you cut them. You don't really get to choose those numbers much but with UDFA you can negotiate signing bonuses more.

When you think about it a team may be better off taking their 7th round pick and trading it for a bag of peanuts and getting another UDFA. I mean that literally.

Yep.

Plus with a 7th rounder its a ~5% chance the player lasts 3 years in the league.

With trading a 7th for an established player, you increase your chances of production and paying more is acceptable.

 

[maineman209]

FWIW this team needs ST help.

Snap counts from 2016

A dash to the left of the name means the player is gone, most likely gone or injured


Nate Ebner 359
-Barkevious Mingo 323
Jonathan Jones 307
Brandon King 299
-Brandon Bolden 264
-Geneo Grissom 250
Matt Slater 226
-Shea McClellin 218
Patrick Chung 201
Stephen Gostkowski 175
Alan Branch 153
Joe Cardona 153
Ryan Allen 153
James Develin 151
-Jordan Richards 151
Devin McCourty 142
Duron Harmon 125

Especially against the Chiefs' return game, as Reiss just pointed out.

 

[maineman209]

C. Price reported that Marquis Flowers will wear #59. Just on the off chance that the camera guys decide to give us a chance see the players on the field Thursday night.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

C. Price reported that Marquis Flowers will wear #59. Just on the off chance that the camera guys decide to give us a chance see the players on the field Thursday night.

Excuse me, but I only turn on the game so I can see and hear the expert analysis from the two guys in the Bob's Discount Furniture studios. I can't get that anywhere else. Please don't deny me that by asking them to focus the cameras on the field instead!!!

 

[patfanken]

BTW- anyone know if the Pats giving up the 7th round pick is contingent on Flowers making the time? Teams often have provisos like that in deals that don't make the media coverage the first time around.

Either way what this tells me is that BB is loading up on LB's rather than 4-3 DE's . THAT tells me that he's looking to play more 3 man fronts, and he now has the guys to run it. Brancc/Valentine in the middle to go along with Guy, Brown, and Butler at the ends.

I doubt it will look like the old 3-4 he ran in the early 2000's, but our talent is more suited for that look now, than the 4-3 talent we had last season. It could be the reason he's adding LB's rather than true 4-3 DE's to the roster

 

[RobertWeathers]

Especially against the Chiefs' return game, as Reiss just pointed out.

The guy seems like a helluva athlete. Seeing how he was a core STer in Cinci I can assume he'll be the same here.

 

[Ring 6]

BTW- anyone know if the Pats giving up the 7th round pick is contingent on Flowers making the time? Teams often have provisos like that in deals that don't make the media coverage the first time around.

Either way what this tells me is that BB is loading up on LB's rather than 4-3 DE's . THAT tells me that he's looking to play more 3 man fronts, and he now has the guys to run it. Brancc/Valentine in the middle to go along with Guy, Brown, and Butler at the ends.

I doubt it will look like the old 3-4 he ran in the early 2000's, but our talent is more suited for that look now, than the 4-3 talent we had last season. It could be the reason he's adding LB's rather than true 4-3 DE's to the roster

I disagree and think all this tells us is he needs a special teams player. One flowers will play almost all of the d snaps the other will play few if any.

His position designation is irrelevant to signaling a change.

Essentially what we have done is move HT to replace nink/sheard who basically shared the spot, added Harris to take HT old role, will increase flowers snaps and added Guy and wise to take longs.
We will run the same d.
When nink was out there we called it 425 nickel. With HT in that spot we will call it 335 nickel but it's the same thing.

Your position breakdown appears to leave trey flowers out.

 

[maineman209]

The guy seems like a helluva athlete. Seeing how he was a core STer in Cinci I can assume he'll be the same here.

Reiss wrote that this reminds him of the Pats trading for LB/special teamer Tracy White just before the start of the 2010 season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I disagree and think all this tells us is he needs a special teams player. One flowers will play almost all of the d snaps the other will play few if any.

His position designation is irrelevant to signaling a change.

Essentially what we have done is move HT to replace nink/sheard who basically shared the spot, added Harris to take HT old role, will increase flowers snaps and added Guy and wise to take longs.
We will run the same d.
When nink was out there we called it 425 nickel. With HT in that spot we will call it 335 nickel but it's the same thing.

Your position breakdown appears to leave trey flowers out.

Like Casillas in 2014, because of his speed I think he'll get a look at some kind of a nickel/dime LB backing up Chung but I don't expect him to see any more than 100 snaps with the D.

His value is STs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Reiss wrote that this reminds him of the Pats trading for LB/special teamer Tracy White just before the start of the 2010 season.

...who wound up playing a little bit in nickel and dime.

 

[long distance]

Predominantly ST move like most suspect . but interesting to know he played also S in college and “star“ LB. Similar position was being explored lately w Richards and is part of Chung's game as well..

i do hope this is not connected to Langi's absence..

 

[maineman209]

Like Casillas in 2014, because of his speed I think he'll get a look at some kind of a nickel/dime LB backing up Chung but I don't expect him to see any more than 100 snaps with the D.

His value is STs.

Dussault at PatsProp just speculated that Flowers' arrival may be bad news for Richards. Interesting take.

 

[Ring 6]

Dussault at PatsProp just speculated that Flowers' arrival may be bad news for Richards. Interesting take.

250 LB safety?? Nah.

 

[patchick]

I disagree and think all this tells us is he needs a special teams player. One flowers will play almost all of the d snaps the other will play few if any.

His position designation is irrelevant to signaling a change.

IMO it's impossible to say that at this stage. Just as with James O'Shaughnessy who was primarily a special teamer with KC, they may see Flowers as primarily a special teamer, or they may see untapped defensive potential in him.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Like Casillas in 2014, because of his speed I think he'll get a look at some kind of a nickel/dime LB backing up Chung but I don't expect him to see any more than 100 snaps with the D.

His value is STs.

Think he can do that at 250? Or do you think the Pats would ask him to drop back to his old 235? The 250 weight is why I've thought of him as a ST and an emergency edge rusher, rather than ST and an emergency hybrid SS/LB.

 

[Ring 6]

IMO it's impossible to say that at this stage. Just as with James O'Shaughnessy who was primarily a special teamer with KC, they may see Flowers as primarily a special teamer, or they may see untapped defensive potential in him.

Ok let's say highly unlikely.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Think he can do that at 250? Or do you think the Pats would ask him to drop back to his old 235? The 250 weight is I've thought of him as a ST and an emergency edge rusher, rather than ST and an emergency hybrid SS/LB.

First- I have no idea he can do anything on D .

Based on everything I have read he seems like a guy who's strengths are playing in space and flying around the ball.

Because he played safety I'm assuming he has some kind of coverage skills. I have no idea how good they are.

I do think BB will see what he has with the kid and go from there.

If he determines he can't play a lick of D but is a standout STer, I think he can live with that for a year.

With that said, while Marvin Lewis is a middle of the road HC, I think he knows good defensive players when he sees them.

I saw one report he was listed at 243. I've also seen it at 250. Not sure what to believe?