Kraft: zero DV tolerance - no Mixon

[XLIX]

I go in every once in a while and give @EatSleepWinRepeat a dislike on one of his posts and then, every once in a while, I'll sign in and see that he/she disliked 15 of my posts. Always good for a laugh. As a matter of fact, I'm going to go hit him with one now.

haha.... see, that's why I make a good faith effort to keep it 1:1.... otherwise the whole thing increases exponentially and would eventually consume all matter in the known universe.....

 

[Kontradiction]

haha.... see, that's why I make a good faith effort to keep it 1:1.... otherwise the whole thing increases exponentially and would eventually consume all matter in the known universe.....

Sometimes I'll go in and discover that I already disliked the post that I went into, so I'll click "undo rating" and dislike it again.

 

[Wheelman]

Which one? He spammed dislikes into every single post I made in this thread.

But yeah, I think I'll survive. No matter how contentious an argument gets, I never give out disagrees/dislikes unless someone gives me one, then I return the favor on a 1:1 basis. People usually get the idea, but he is extremely slow on the uptake.

Uh, I thought we were just playing a game you wanted to play. You wanted to play this game with me several times in the past but I never had the chance to oblige you. But I have plenty of time now.

 

[Biffins]

I don't understand this red line from Kraft at all. Clearly society as a whole disagrees since the punishment for domestic violence is a lot less severe than a whole lot of other crimes.

Maybe someone on this forum, who agrees with Kraft, can explain to me why it's ok to pass out drunk in your car in the middle of the road but not ok to hit a woman. Seems arbitrary. Is it because the former didn't cause an accident? What if it had?

 

[TB_Helmet]

I don't understand this red line from Kraft at all. Clearly society as a whole disagrees since the punishment for domestic violence is a lot less severe than a whole lot of other crimes.

Maybe someone on this forum, who agrees with Kraft, can explain to me why it's ok to pass out drunk in your car in the middle of the road but not ok to hit a woman. Seems arbitrary. Is it because the former didn't cause an accident? What if it had?

It's a great question. It's completely arbitrary and is fully dependent on what your morals are.

But morality is by definition an arbitrary concept right? My morals say that I don't care if Blount hit a dude, but at the same time I have a problem with Mixon. I draw an arbitrary line between hitting a woman vs a man. I also eat cow all the time but would never eat a dog. All of these decisions are based on my beliefs and are also dependent on context and nuance (which usually don't do well during internet arguments)

If Floyd had killed someone while driving, I wouldn't want him on my team. Ravens fans would be fine with it though, because their middle linebacker killed a guy and there's a statue of him out front of their stadium. But I also feel for Donte Stallworth due to the circumstances of his situation (different thread altogether).

Bottom line, if you think it's ok to break a woman's jaw when she slaps you, and that is your moral code, then I'm not gonna argue with you using logic, because we just have fundamentally different beliefs. I will judge you from a moral belief though and if it were my daughter you did that to I would burn your house down, so there are some practical considerations too.

Deep thoughts on the Pats message board in March.

 

[Love The Drake]

in case anyone hasn't seen the video. whole thing took 15 seconds:

Piece of crap

 

[Love The Drake]

I don't understand this red line from Kraft at all. Clearly society as a whole disagrees since the punishment for domestic violence is a lot less severe than a whole lot of other crimes.

Maybe someone on this forum, who agrees with Kraft, can explain to me why it's ok to pass out drunk in your car in the middle of the road but not ok to hit a woman. Seems arbitrary. Is it because the former didn't cause an accident? What if it had?

a real man never puts his hands on a woman if one attacks you either get away or attempt to restrain them.
Punch them like their a man?
If they dont have a weapon aimed at me or my family there is no reason.
I have friends who say if they want to fight like a man im going to him them like one.
I say no way.
I had one friend say Mixon didnt put any strength in his punch and took it easy on her thats disgusting.
At the end of the day its a WOMAN.
Chances are strong when the Bengals draft him it happens again.

 

[borg]

To the "No Mixon" crowd.....I ask you.....did you root for the cons or the guards in The Longest Yard?

 

[Simpelton]

At the end of the day its a WOMAN.

Yeah, and?

At the end of the day, a woman can kill a man. You see a handful of cases of female on male murder every year in the courts.

I really hope you're not one of those people who scoff at female-on-male domestic violence, considering my brother was a victim of exactly this and it's a very real phenomenon. Females CAN injure, cripple, and even kill males. There is no y chromosome immunity to female based damage here in the real world.

Now I'm gonna backtrack on some stuff I said earlier in this thread because I do feel like the physical mismatch needs to be taken into consideration, and I do think that at the end of the day Mixon's plea bargain was probably fair if not lenient simply based on damage done. But at the same time, I can't help feeling that blanket statements that effectively take Molitor's side only and exactly because she's female miss the point in a huge way.

Perhaps I also have a bit of a white guilt problem because I'm a little nervous about some folks being so quick to take the side of a white woman who was clearly doing her own share of abuse against a black man, in a mostly-white establishment. There are some things you just don't say to a black man and based on some of what I read, Molitor said nearly all of them.

I also feel that Molitor showed such bad judgment in her actions that brought this to a head that even though Mixon showed terrible judgment, the most I'd be comfortable proposing here based on the facts as I understand them is matching penalties. Certainly Mixon should not be the only one suffering consequences based on what I saw. Molitor WAS the one who took it physical, that's not up for debate. The law is here to protect the stupid, but not to reward stupid. Molitor had no business being stupid enough to mix it up physically with a pro running back. I can get behind punishing Mixon as a disincentive because you don't want to reward what he did... I just feel that making him a permanent pariah or attaching labels to him that stick for life just doesn't fit the facts.

Frankly I'm also not as convinced as some on this thread seem to be that Mixon had nothing to fear. I doubt Molitor could have done him any permanent injury, although you never want to give a 0% chance of anything when alcohol is a factor, but Molitor and the male friend together might have done some damage if he hadn't shut the fight down hard before the other guy had a chance to pile on in. Remember he had been directly involved in the exchange of pleasantries in the parking lot and was a party to the disagreement. "I'll distract 'em you suckerpunch 'em" is the oldest fighting tactic in the world. Even if he had no plan to do that, if Mixon feared that that was what was going on, that might trigger the legal standard for self defense. Just food for thought.

The end of the discussion for me is simply that I feel that there is way too much gray in this situation to apply life-altering labels to Mixon over what he did. He was stupid and violent and the target is female. Is that enough to give him the permanent lifetime label of a woman-beater? Others say a definite yes, I don't feel it's that clearcut. If there were other incidents I'd feel differently, even if all of those incidents fell into a gray area too, and if he'd continued his counterattack (and it WAS a counterattack) against Molitor after she was down, that would be enough to seal the deal for any fairminded personm but based on this one situation where there's clearly more than enough fault to go round... I just don't feel the rush to judgment is warranted.

 

[Tony2046]

It's a great question. It's completely arbitrary and is fully dependent on what your morals are.

But morality is by definition an arbitrary concept right? My morals say that I don't care if Blount hit a dude, but at the same time I have a problem with Mixon. I draw an arbitrary line between hitting a woman vs a man. I also eat cow all the time but would never eat a dog. All of these decisions are based on my beliefs and are also dependent on context and nuance (which usually don't do well during internet arguments)

If Floyd had killed someone while driving, I wouldn't want him on my team. Ravens fans would be fine with it though, because their middle linebacker killed a guy and there's a statue of him out front of their stadium. But I also feel for Donte Stallworth due to the circumstances of his situation (different thread altogether).

Bottom line, if you think it's ok to break a woman's jaw when she slaps you, and that is your moral code, then I'm not gonna argue with you using logic, because we just have fundamentally different beliefs. I will judge you from a moral belief though and if it were my daughter you did that to I would burn your house down, so there are some practical considerations too.

Deep thoughts on the Pats message board in March.

Fantastic post TB.

 

[Simpelton]

I will judge you from a moral belief though and if it were my daughter you did that to I would burn your house down, so there are some practical considerations too.

If it were your daughter, I would have hoped you'd have raised her better than to hurl racial insults and pick fights with powerfully built running backs. One of the most important life lessons you can teach any child is how to pick their battles, and it's clear that neither Molitor or Mixon has learned that one. Neither Molitor, by attacking a volatile, intoxicated young athlete, or Mixon, by letting himself be provoked into hitting a woman, picked a battle they could win, and if anything is a takeaway in this thread -- it's that. Mixon may have issues finding favorable matchups on the field if that's the best he can do in the spur of the moment off the field.

Meanwhile if you're not going teach her to avoid violence, at least have the common courtesy to teach your daughter how to win the fights she's going to get into. Molitor picked that fight with no plan for how to win it, it's as obvious as the gesture she gave that beckoned Mixon over to her table when the fracas started. She either needs to get better at picking fights or better at winning them, one of the two.

 

[XLIX]

Uh, I thought we were just playing a game you wanted to play. You wanted to play this game with me several times in the past but I never had the chance to oblige you. But I have plenty of time now.

AFAIK we are even (give or take me miscounting by 1 or 2). If I don't get anymore dislikes then I won't give anymore.

 

[XLIX]

If it were your daughter, I would have hoped you'd have raised her better than to hurl racial insults and pick fights with powerfully built running backs.

There is zero evidence whatsoever that happened and, as noted before, even Mixon backed off that accusation. He knew it was a load of ****.

 

[TB_Helmet]

If it were your daughter, I would have hoped you'd have raised her better than to hurl racial insults and pick fights with powerfully built running backs. One of the most important life lessons you can teach any child is how to pick their battles, and it's clear that neither Molitor or Mixon has learned that one. Neither Molitor, by attacking a volatile, intoxicated young athlete, or Mixon, by letting himself be provoked into hitting a woman, picked a battle they could win, and if anything is a takeaway in this thread -- it's that. Mixon may have issues finding favorable matchups on the field if that's the best he can do in the spur of the moment off the field.

Meanwhile if you're not going teach her to avoid violence, at least have the common courtesy to teach your daughter how to win the fights she's going to get into. Molitor picked that fight with no plan for how to win it, it's as obvious as the gesture she gave that beckoned Mixon over to her table when the fracas started. She either needs to get better at picking fights or better at winning them, one of the two.

Yeah I'm sure if it were your daughter in that situation then you'd be sitting by the hospital bed with her feeding her applesauce and calmly explaining to her that it's her fault her jaw is wired shut and she should have had a better plan to win the fight she picked by gesturing to the pro athlete.

Me, I'd be in the next State Farm commercial with Aaron Rodgers where he's shouting "call the fire department!" outside of Mixon's house.

 

[bbobbo]

Meanwhile if you're not going teach her to avoid violence, at least have the common courtesy to teach your daughter how to win the fights she's going to get into. Molitor picked that fight with no plan for how to win it, it's as obvious as the gesture she gave that beckoned Mixon over to her table when the fracas started. She either needs to get better at picking fights or better at winning them, one of the two.

exactly! as i said before, she's about the size of ronda rousey. she should have been able to beat the crap out of him.








(only joking! and i'm not poking fun at you, just poking fun at my own earlier comment)
.

 

[Tony2046]

Yeah I'm sure if it were your daughter in that situation then you'd be sitting by the hospital bed with her feeding her applesauce and calmly explaining to her that it's her fault her jaw is wired shut and she should have had a better plan to win the fight she picked by gesturing to the pro athlete.

Me, I'd be in the next State Farm commercial with Aaron Rodgers where he's shouting "call the fire department!" outside of Mixon's house.

My best friend's sister was dating a guy who shoved her into a wall and threatened to beat her ass. She told my buddy and her other brother about the incident and they found him, threw him in the back of a pick up truck, drove him to a remote sandpit up in Maine and fired two shots from a nine millimeter next to his ear. hahahhahah. He never shoved her again.

 

[Simpelton]

There is zero evidence whatsoever that happened and, as noted before, even Mixon backed off that accusation. He knew it was a load of ****.

Oh yes, you're right, my mistake. Witnesses suggest that it was in fact the young gay man who threw the racial epithet, and Molitor backed him up verbally when Mixon took exception to that and returned fire for fire.

 

[Simpelton]

My best friend's sister was dating a guy who shoved her into a wall and threatened to beat her ass. She told my buddy and her other brother about the incident and they found him, threw him in the back of a pick up truck, drove him to a remote sandpit up in Maine and fired two shots from a nine millimeter next to his ear. hahahhahah. He never shoved her again.

And you think that Mixon had no reason to fear for his safety? You realize that pushing her away is the thing that a few bright bulbs in this thread suggested Mixon was SUPPOSED to do? And I'm sure restraining her against her will wouldn't have been seen as "violence against women" either. And leaving himself completely vunlerable to the guy who'd been fully involved in the encounter in the parking lot was obviously a fine idea as well.

I hate to use the term, because it gets used far more than it should and it puts me in a position where it's easy to put me in a box, but the white knighting in this thread is getting a little silly. There is an appropriate time to use the term and it seems to apply here. When white knights get going, they don't do half measures. A large minority of people at the very least would have condemned Mixon for doing anything other than nothing no matter who was actually responsible for what happened. Personally I resent the concept, people are assuming the person who started the fight is some kind of delicate flower that needs protecting, and that's just objectively wrong and unjust in a way I wish I was better at putting words to.

You don't put hands on another human being and expect them to just stand there and take it. That's too high a standard of behavior to ask. I'm not saying a right cross to the chops was an appropriate response, but putting all the onus on Mixon when he wasn't the first one to cross the line and resort to violence is ridiculous. Molitor needs to be held responsible for her own role in the fracas, the fact that he's a black man filling a certain stereotype of young black men, and she's a physically attractive blonde white female, notwithstanding.

And yes, putting my cards on the table, I am in fact fully convinced that various racial and gender biases are in play with just how quickly certain of us have put Mixon in a box for this one incident and how presumptively some of us are rushing to Molitor's defense. I mean how could they not be? An attractive white female starts a physical altercation with a young black man who resorts to violence in response and catches 100% of the blame? This is a perfect case study of the race and gender divide in this country.

The fact is that Mixon was in a situation where he couldn't win the moment he was dumb enough to come when Molitor called him to the table. He handled it particularly poorly, but with the toxic state of race and gender relations in this country, I'm not entirely sure there was a winning solution on the table for Mixon in the first place.

 

[Simpelton]

Actually I think the punch was stupid and a hideous overreaction and a precedent we do need to work against in this country. Obviously the perfect decision would be to walk away, turn the other cheek, etc. I just don't think that's realistic or fair when someone is laying their hands on you or that anyone should be expected to take the perfect decision when they're under attack. Personally I think he should have pushed her back then walked away. The problem is that would still have been enough to set the white knights off, and then we're more or less back at this point with Mixon having a lot of hard questions to answer, some of them in front of a judge.

He did a bad job of navigating the scenario, but I'm of the opinion that the scenario itself was no-win in the first place so I have a hard time coming down too hard on Mixon here.

I just think that what is clearly a fight that Molitor started and Mixon ended then walked away from, doesn't make Mixon a woman beater. If there had been other such incidents, or if Mixon had kept attacking or threatening Molitor after she was down, in eituer case I'd be on the other side of this conversation. as is I'd say the plea bargain was pretty fair, especially given that Mixon made the right noises after the incident.

And given the rather large graying factor of Molitor being the one to cross the line into physical violence, I feel that the label of "woman beater" (which is the big thing I was trying to rebut for this entire thread) is inappropriate, that his draft status should be determined by his level of talent, and as long as he keeps his nose clean from here on in, I wouldn't have any problem with Mixon becoming a Patriot.

 

[TennisBallHead]

That's fascinating