Butler visiting Saints

[mosslost]

We gave them a 3rd rounder as well. Give us back our 3rd rounder. Butler for cooks's equal value. I will be pissed if we don't get that back.

what I am saying is that was their original wink wink deal. Hopefully it does not burn us.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Por

I am actually worried about this.....

GTFOH with that nfl. You know how ridiculous that would be after the jests cover up tampering charges. They better butt out.

 

[mosslost]

I guess I'm not as concerned as you, but I can understand where you're coming from.
I believe everything will be fine.

The way Goodell is, I could see all the deals between the teams voided, and picks taken..

 

[Snooky97]

LMAO

BB in the slow drawn out process of flim-flamming Payton out of draft picks.

By the start of TC BB will have all his picks back, Cooks, Payton's picks and only had given up Malcolm and Jordan Richards.

Imagine the uproar.. would be bloody brilliant..

with the 1st pick of the draft the pats take Myles garret...

With the 11th pick the pats take foster

with the 12th pick the pats select... whoever they want..

 

[RobertWeathers]

The way Goodell is, I could see all the deals between the teams voided, and picks taken..

I am worried about the same thing.

Christ the NFL office still uses friggan fax machines.

They can't even keep with with technology and science on ball pressure. How can we expect them to keep up with trades?

 

[mosslost]

Take a different perspective. There are only two scenarios that don't trigger a deflategate style investigation by goodell..
1) saints offer Malcolm a contract and pats match and he stays a Patriot.
2) Saints offer Malcolm a contract and Pats decline and they get Saints pick #11.
Anything else like a sign and trade and Goodell screws the Patriots again. Are we naive enough to not know we have to be like Caesar's wife, above reproach.?
Side deals, wink and nod and discussing trading players not under construction ntract are not allowed.. I am sorry but if this is Pittsburgh and NYG it is not an issue but it is Pats and Saints who have been in th league's doghouse.

I fear you are right.. or put another way I hope you are right and we get either the 11, or Butler on a decent fair deal!

 

[50-yard-line]

Ryan is in Tennessee.
Sheard (down year still solid player) went to Indy.
Hightower looks like he's set on leaving New England and Butler is packing his bags to move to New Orleans.

But Pats added Gilmore!

I don't see how - in any capacity - fbis defense is better than last years. And I personally didn't think last year's was all that great.

Gilmore is not better than butler in my eyes. At best, he's similar in skill as a player. They still haven't made up for the loss at CB2. Combined with Brady turnin 40 I don't like the direction Bill is taking.

Whoa there!

Ealy and Guy for Long and Sheard is not a downgrade, particularly considering the money Sheard just got.

They lost Ryan, yes, and replaced him with Gilmore.

Hightower isn't gone yet at all. No Butler deal has been made yet.

So far, they've upgraded, not downgraded...and I didn't even mention Cooks, who is a legitimate #1 receiver.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

It would be hypocritical if the nfl got involved but it wouldn't shock me from such a corrupt league. Maybe the feds should ransack ****dell's office.

 

[sambam94]

Take a different perspective. There are only two scenarios that don't trigger a deflategate style investigation by goodell..
1) saints offer Malcolm a contract and pats match and he stays a Patriot.
2) Saints offer Malcolm a contract and Pats decline and they get Saints pick #11.
Anything else like a sign and trade and Goodell screws the Patriots again. Are we naive enough to not know we have to be like Caesar's wife, above reproach.?
Side deals, wink and nod and discussing trading players not under construction ntract are not allowed.. I am sorry but if this is Pittsburgh and NYG it is not an issue but it is Pats and Saints who have been in th league's doghouse.

so you are saying the following is somehow against NFL rules:
-Butler visits saints and they agree to terms on a contract
-Butler signs tender
-Pats trade Butler to saints for say pick 32
-Butler signs extension he agreed to with saints

 

[Mack Herron]

so you are saying the following is somehow against NFL rules:
-Butler visits saints and they agree to terms on a contract
-Butler signs tender
-Pats trade Butler to saints for say pick 32
-Butler signs extension he agreed to with saints

This is what we did with Welker.

So if the Saints and Butler can strike a fair deal based on the fact that he’s currently not on the open market and wouldn’t be for a year, the Saints can then approach the Patriots and make an offer for something less than a first-round pick, subject to Butler signing the restricted free agency tender. If the Saints and Patriots reach an understanding, Butler would sign the tender, and the Patriots would trade him.

Saints, Patriots will tread lightly on Malcolm Butler deal

 

[BelichickFan]

This would definitely put "Malcolm, Go" in a different context.

 

[mosslost]

so you are saying the following is somehow against NFL rules:
-Butler visits saints and they agree to terms on a contract
-Butler signs tender
-Pats trade Butler to saints for say pick 32
-Butler signs extension he agreed to with saints

If it is part 2 of a deal worked out between BB and Payton it WOULD be against the rules.. And if it happens it sure looks like that is what happened.... And we have learned that the CBA gives Goodell power to decide basically whatever he wants. He could void all deals between the two teams as a baseline, then impose punishments.

EDIT: if we get 11 it's fine..

 

[patfanken]

1. Still not a single report that Butler has signed his tender, so ANY trade talk is moot.

2. According to Over the Cap, the Saints have just $13MM in cap space. That is NOT much when you consider it will take roughly $3MM to sign their rookies another million to get to 53. That leaves just about 9MM left. There doesn't seem to be enough to get a deal done, even if they could squeeze him in. They'd be ****ed with any injuries. So if Butler expects to get his "top dollar" from the Saints, he put them in a bad situation for this early in the process.

3. I'm still very uncomfortable in what looks like might be basically a straight swap of Butler for Cooks. And it comes back down to the 2 positions the guys play. Simply, a CB is always going to be more valuable than WR of equal talent.

First the CB is going to be on the field 99% of the time, while even the busiest of WR's are in the high 70's. Both Cooks and Edelman were right around 77% last season. And while Cooks offers a dimemsion that we haven't seen in our offense for the last decade, NOT having it hasn't kept us from winning, has it. Having the luxury of two #1 level CB's is likely to have a bigger effect on the Pats winning the game, than a WR who "can take the top off a defense". Last year we saw one of those almost every week. Houston has 2 of them.

Good defense travels, it isn't affected by the weather. I know I've railed enough about losing the draft pick for Cooks, but give this choice, I'd much rather lose the pick than the player. I don't doubt the defense will be good without Butler, but it could be SPECIAL with him.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

 

[50-yard-line]

This is what we did with Welker.

Sure, but ONLY because we gave Miami more than we had to in exchange for them not matching our offer to Welker. The RFA worked out BETTER for Miami in that trade.

For the Pats to go from 11 to 32 on the RFA tender for Butler, particularly after making a big trade with the same team, would imply a wink-wink, which means the Pats were negotiating about a player who was not under contract (tender not signed).

 

[BelichickFan]

3. I'm still very uncomfortable in what looks like might be basically a straight swap of Butler for Cooks. And it comes back down to the 2 positions the guys play. Simply, a CB is always going to be more valuable than WR of equal talent.

Butler has one cheap year left (just under $4M), Cooks has two cheap years left (average of around $5M). That makes a big difference.

 

[JMC00]

Sucks that Belichick is about to allow himself to get fleeced by Sean Payton just because they are buddies. #32 sucks as values for Butler, I'd rather just keep him this year and get a 3rd comp pick when he leaves. It's going to be even more maddening when then cap strapped Saints sign Butler to modest deal. This is Belichick's 1st big screw up in a while, Patriots have all the leverage and are about to get screwed. Now we have to call Revis's fat ass to have any chance of having a decent #2 CB this year.

Yes let's just ignore that Cooks was part of the deal.

Also blame Butler's incompetent agent.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

1. Still not a single report that Butler has signed his tender, so ANY trade talk is moot.

2. According to Over the Cap, the Saints have just $13MM in cap space. That is NOT much when you consider it will take roughly $3MM to sign their rookies another million to get to 53. That leaves just about 9MM left. There doesn't seem to be enough to get a deal done, even if they could squeeze him in. They'd be ****ed with any injuries. So if Butler expects to get his "top dollar" from the Saints, he put them in a bad situation for this early in the process.

3. I'm still very uncomfortable in what looks like might be basically a straight swap of Butler for Cooks. And it comes back down to the 2 positions the guys play. Simply, a CB is always going to be more valuable than WR of equal talent.

First the CB is going to be on the field 99% of the time, while even the busiest of WR's are in the high 70's. Both Cooks and Edelman were right around 77% last season. And while Cooks offers a dimemsion that we haven't seen in our offense for the last decade, NOT having it hasn't kept us from winning, has it. Having the luxury of two #1 level CB's is likely to have a bigger effect on the Pats winning the game, than a WR who "can take the top off a defense". Last year we saw one of those almost every week. Houston has 2 of them.

Good defense travels, it isn't affected by the weather. I know I've railed enough about losing the draft pick for Cooks, but give this choice, I'd much rather lose the pick than the player. I don't doubt the defense will be good without Butler, but it could be SPECIAL with him.

I wouldn't feel bad if they gave us back our 3rd rounder. It has to be included!!!

 

[Marqui]

Yes let's just ignore that Cooks was part of the deal.

Also blame Butler's incompetent agent.

Patriots offered the best package for Cooks, he should not be part of any Butler deal.

 

[Mack Herron]

Sure, but ONLY because we gave Miami more than we had to in exchange for them not matching our offer to Welker. The RFA worked out BETTER for Miami in that trade.

For the Pats to go from 11 to 32 on the RFA tender for Butler, particularly after making a big trade with the same team, would imply a wink-wink, which means the Pats were negotiating about a player who was not under contract (tender not signed).

Show me anything on the CBA that prohibits this.