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Patriots trade for WR Brandin Cooks (NO BUTLER INVOLVED). Gave up 1st & 3rd rounder for Cooks + 4th

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Yeah see this is how I think most Saints fans see it. Cooks loved the offense and Brees and SP have a great relationship, but when you consistanly get better and excell, and D is blowing games you get very frustrated if a winner. I see Cooks as very driven.
A good break down of Cooks I saw from an eagles fan.

Brandin Cooks Film Study: Why the Eagles should trade a first-round pick to the Saints

Kind of shows what we saw and that at such a young age he has abilities that usually takes longer to develop. Cooks has a thing in his gut, you can see it, and does not like to lose as a team. Even if he gets 3 TD's and 300 yrds. It pisses him off. 7-9 did not made Cooks happy even if he got the ball and had a pro game.
I also wonder that if Cooks produces as he did in LA on Turf with 1000-1500 seasons wont that actually reduce other WR's agents bidding war for cash ? When they are not #1 on the team anymore. And personally sense Cooks has never made the big paycheck, Im assuming a 2 year deal, after his 2 years are over, for say 7-8 Mill might workout, if his agent isnt and idiot. I dont know much about it, but that is what I would look for. I dont see Cooks going for 17 mill payday especially if he is in a winning environment, hes not built that way. It wouldnt suprise me if Cooks asked to be traded to the Pats actually.

Eh, we were saying the same about Butler and his salary not long ago. If Cooks succeeds here, he's making 12M/year at the bare minimum, no matter who gives it to him.
 
I'm a fan.

Cooks to me is as explosive a player as there is in this league, and I think he's going to love playing in this offense. You don't get a player like this at #32 in the draft, he's a top 3-5 talent in any draft. To me it's like getting Steve Smith with Chris Johnson's speed, he's a true freak, and he's as young as most players who were rookies this season. With Edelman, Gronk, and Cooks on the field teams are sh.t out of luck, and that's if they don't use their RB's.

I pity the fool who tries to stop this offense...,,.
 
Eh, we were saying the same about Butler and his salary not long ago. If Cooks succeeds here, he's making 12M/year at the bare minimum, no matter who gives it to him.
But would his success reduce other WR's would be asking for higher price? So save a few mil ? and allow that contract to happen ? Assuming he preforms the same. Which Im positive he will. But also knowing Cooks, I dont think he will take a huge deal and move to a losing team.
 
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But would his success reduce other WR's would be asking for higher price? So save a few mil ? and allow that contract to happen ? Assuming he preforms the same. Which Im positive he will. But also knowing Cooks, I dont think he will take a huge deal and move to a losing team.

If he proves out ass good as you think, the Pats will pay him plenty.

Ask Gilmore. Two years from now, Edelman is at or nearing the end of a great career, Amendola is almost certainly done. The Pats will pay market for a key piece - they offered market to Welker.

Two years is a lifetime in the NFL.
 
If he proves out ass good as you think, the Pats will pay him plenty.

Ask Gilmore. Two years from now, Edelman is at or nearing the end of a great career, Amendola is almost certainly done. The Pats will pay market for a key piece - they offered market to Welker.

Two years is a lifetime in the NFL.
ok thanks
 
ok thanks

By the way, let me join the others in saying that i greatly appreciate the perspective of a fan from another team being so civil and cool and informative.

I knew little about Cooks until I read your posts, then went and looked. A lot more excited by him now and that's why I think he'll work out great here nad will get a good payday here.
 
By the way, let me join the others in saying that i greatly appreciate the perspective of a fan from another team being so civil and cool and informative.

I knew little about Cooks until I read your posts, then went and looked. A lot more excited by him now and that's why I think he'll work out great here nad will get a good payday here.
And we Saints fans really apprieciate you letting us contribute as football fans to the forum. I think we just try to give our prespective so it can better help your discussion. But we are rarely not made fun of or value as a teams fans lol. So thanks for that.

I truely believe your fans should embrase him, hes a good kid. Im holding off until he gets his feet wet, kills the the gitters and gets used to the weather and uniform changes that will be new with cleats, but I completely believe you have a #1 WR that you traded for with RB abilities, and with the great coaching at NE he should be very effective 1st season. I dont like getting ahead of the hype. I did it with Bount when some thought he was a bad trade. Hes a very good punch in the mouth RB.
But I feel the same about Cooks. He is going to be something great for NE , I believe. Really happy he found a home with a good team and fan base. I think #10 jersey will be popular in NE next year.
 
Who knows what he'll do. This time last week you could have asked the same question about trading our #1 for a veteran WR. Or signing the highest paid CB of this FA period.
You could have knocked me over with a feather when it was announce he traded our first round pick for a WR.

But for the 2nd one, I'm less surprised. We had the cap space. He have the tough schedule. We had the potential Bulter situation. We had the luxury of seeing him up close and personal twice a year for the last 5 years, so there will be no likely errors in his evaluation. We have the knowledge of the market for what it takes to get a guy with the evaluation they had on him.

It was all there. The need, the availability, the cap space, and we got him for the right price, even if it wasn't a bargain.
 
You could have knocked me over with a feather when it was announce he traded our first round pick for a WR.

But for the 2nd one, I'm less surprised. We had the cap space. He have the tough schedule. We had the potential Bulter situation. We had the luxury of seeing him up close and personal twice a year for the last 5 years, so there will be no likely errors in his evaluation. We have the knowledge of the market for what it takes to get a guy with the evaluation they had on him.

It was all there. The need, the availability, the cap space, and we got him for the right price, even if it wasn't a bargain.
See, I'm kind of feeling the opposite in the sense that I can understand taking a chance on Cooks, who is still under reasonable contract for 2 more years.

I probably wouldn't have predicted Gilmore in a million chances, although it's essentially a 2/32 deal with a team option every year afterwards. Still, that's a lot of money to give to an outsider. Damn.
 
FWIW, I really don't like this line of reasoning. You can always improve, and if you have a chance to do it then you should. Just because the offense was already one of the best in the league doesn't mean it can't get better and more versatile.
You are just stating the obvious, but any trade comes with a cost. I just don't think the cost is justified by the price and the EFFECT of that price. Some people think that a Cook's talent is worthy of a #1. Again it's just me, but I don't think any WR is worth that much, let alone a midget one. But that's just my opinion

I think it can be confidently stated that he'll be fine on all accounts. He excels at running inside routes and using his agility to get open. He's always been good at that, with the physical attributes that make a great, shifty inside receiver: good hands, good 3 cone, great 10 yard split, phenomenal shuttle and short shuttle times. By just about every measure he's quicker and more agile than Amendola was even before his injuries.
Sure the combine numbers are there, BUT.....
You would make me feel a lot better if you can find even ONE highlight clip where he made a guy miss. BTW- I wouldn't have ever brought it up, but Saints fans commented on his lack of YAC, as well as pointing out his forray into being a PR his rookie year that was described as "painful,"

Every time Edelman fields a punt he makes at least one person miss, even when he has a minimal return. You would think someone would his numbers would be a great PR. pherein would be the guy to ask if these were issues in NO.

And we can't ignore that there is a reason that NO wanted him gone despite all the talent and 2 relatively cheap years in their control. The kid shot his way out of town, after three 1100 yd seasons from a HOF QB in a pass happy offense.

BTW- even if these issues were true, I understand that it doesn't necessarily mean they'll be true here. Also "getting open" is why he's coming here. That's not what I meant. It's what he does after he gets the ball. He's going to get a lot of short passes in this offense. He'll need to make people miss to maximize his effectiveness. So go find me that clip.

I agree up to a point, but this being the offseason and all there's also a third option of learning more about Cooks. I strongly recommend that anyone with any doubts about the guy we're getting read this Grantland article from a couple years ago: The Big Promise of Brandin Cooks. This is the kind of guy we want on the Patriots. He will fit right in here, from day one. I'd like to think I'm not prone to hyperbole, and I don't say this lightly, but I strongly believe he'll be a better, younger, more versatile version of Edelman, and that he'll be fully integrated into the offense and ready to go well before week 1. If you read that article, it gives a number of anecdotes and quotes demonstrating why every coach he's played for loves him and why he'll fit in perfectly with our team culture.
your lips to God's ear. Believe me I really hope that all my concerns and questions will be end up being unfounded. And there will be no "I told you so's" regardless of the outcome.

BUT...even if he turns out to be as good as you hope, we still face the issue that 2 seasons from now, is it going to be good enough to make this the FIRST WR to get top dollar in nearly 20 years of BB's tenure?

I do agree here, that's a major concern. Our 2012 draft class is gone with exception of Hightower, and 2013 is gone with the exception of Harmon. 2014 is looking like pretty much a bust of a year, barring a huge trade return for Garoppolo, and while 2015 and 2016 have promise, Malcom Brown hasn't developed anywhere near like I hoped he would. I've got high hopes for Flowers, Mason, Mitchell, Valentine, Jones, etc., but the talent pipeline of cheap, rookie contract talent is looking a lot barer right now than it has at any point since 2009. I like Cooks enough that I'm happy with the trade anyway, though.

I think Malcolm Brown has been fine. When you are drafting in the 30's all you getting most years is the first choice of players with 2nd round grades. So if THAT guy winds up being a productive starter, it was a good pick. He doesn't have to be a star, though Brown can still get better. 2012 WAS a good draft. Jones and Collins aren't here, but we DID get good production from them while they were. Also I always count UDFA's as part of a draft class, and there is always at least one each year.
 
Ken, Moss signed a 3yr $27mm extension in 2008, which was very much "top dollar" at the time. NE was also willing to give Branch a hefty extension in his own right, they just wanted to keep the final year intact which was a major sticking point for Deion and had been since his rookie year.

I understand your reservations, it would just be helpful if you stop repeating things that are factually incorrect.

IMO, as I said before, the investment is a strong indication that Bill is happy to open his checkbook if Cooks lives up to expectations, which further weakens that argument.
 
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If he proves out ass good as you think, the Pats will pay him plenty.

Ask Gilmore. Two years from now, Edelman is at or nearing the end of a great career, Amendola is almost certainly done. The Pats will pay market for a key piece - they offered market to Welker.

Two years is a lifetime in the NFL.

Excuse me if I interrupt the conversation between you two but I personally think one of the biggest issues with retaining Cooks in 2 years will be that he won't see enough targets to be worth a true WR market deal contract. There are only so many passes to go around and Gronk and Edelman will stay key targets on the field.

Add in a couple throws to Hogan and Mitchell and Cooks will most probably be closer to 100-90 catches a year than 130. Of course the key idea with him is that putting him and Gronk on the field might occupy two safeties which opens up the field for others to shine. So his value will still be pretty high for the Pats but a) will this be enough for Cooks given his displeasure in the past and b) is that player worth a market value WR extension ?

That being said you are right two years are a lifetime in the NFL so who knows how everything shakes out..
 
This helps dot the eyes and cross the tees

Jon Robinson - Tennessee Titans - 2017 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

According to PFT's Mike Florio, the Titans offered to swap first-round picks -- No. 5 for No. 11 -- and a third-round pick to the Saints in exchange for Brandin Cooks.

Appearing on 104.5 The Zone in Nashville on Monday, Titans GM Jon Robinson revealed he never offered the No. 18 pick for Cooks, the second of two first-rounders the Titans own. The No. 5 selection is via the Rams. If Tennessee truly offered a swap of first-rounders that high in the draft in addition to a three, it's surprising New Orleans didn't bite at that proposal over the Patriots' No. 32 pick and a third it ultimately accepted in exchange for Cooks last Friday. This would indicate the Titans remain in the market for a playmaking outside receiver.

Malcolm Jenkins - Philadelphia Eagles - 2017 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

PFT's Mike Florio reports the Eagles offered the Saints a package of FS Malcolm Jenkins, a third-round pick, and a fourth-round pick in exchange for Brandin Cooks.
The Saints apparently wanted a second-round pick and Jenkins, a price the Eagles obviously balked at since Cooks was later dealt to the Patriots. Jenkins, 29, started his career with the Saints as the No. 14 overall pick in 2009 before signing with the Eagles in 2014. He's become one of the top safeties in the league, grading out well in coverage and providing strong run support. Jenkins is under contract through 2020 after signing a big extension in February 2016

PFT article - Titans never offered 18th pick to Saints for receiver Brandin Cooks

Trade chart value
#32 = 590
#5 (1700) - #11 (1250) = 450
Jenkins + #74 (200) + #119 (56) = 256
 
I would figure Denver is going to bounce back this year after just missing out on the postseason last year with no RB and shaky QB play. Maybe they get Romo. Who knows? I can't imagine Elway keeping status quo.

To me, Denver's pass D is the biggest roadblock to SB52 should the teams meet in January. Getting Cooks went a long way towards helping the Pats overcome that obstacle.

Regards,
Chris
Not that I'm disagreeing with you so much as I'm pointing out HFA is the biggest difference in any match up between these teams in the playoffs it seems. If we get them in Gillette, we must likely win. Get 'em in Denver, and it may be a problem (though we won there in 2016). Romo, if he plays, makes them better than 2016, but I just don't feel he makes them that big a threat to this team.
 
This thread is going to be very fun to bring up during the season.
 
You are just stating the obvious, but any trade comes with a cost. I just don't think the cost is justified by the price and the EFFECT of that price. Some people think that a Cook's talent is worthy of a #1. Again it's just me, but I don't think any WR is worth that much, let alone a midget one. But that's just my opinion

The term you're describing is opportunity cost, and I'm definitely not overlooking it. There is an opportunity cost to any acquisition in terms of money, and an especially big one to any acquisition involving a first round pick. Go back to any thread over the last decade proposing that we trade a first rounder for some random player, and you'll probably find a comment of mine stating that the opportunity cost--young, upper-tier talent under 4-5 years of cost control--is too great. And yes, the cost of this transaction is high. But elite players don't come for free, and if you're going to give up a premium pick for one it might as well be a 23 year old that's still on his rookie deal.

And we can't ignore that there is a reason that NO wanted him gone despite all the talent and 2 relatively cheap years in their control. The kid shot his way out of town, after three 1100 yd seasons from a HOF QB in a pass happy offense.

BTW- even if these issues were true, I understand that it doesn't necessarily mean they'll be true here. Also "getting open" is why he's coming here. That's not what I meant. It's what he does after he gets the ball. He's going to get a lot of short passes in this offense. He'll need to make people miss to maximize his effectiveness. So go find me that clip.

I don't think "NO wanted him gone" is a fair characterization. If Michael Thomas hadn't emerged as a legit WR1, or if their defense wasn't godawful, or if they had more cap space, he'd probably still be there. But they didn't have enough cap space to really fix their defense (though they're certainly trying with the cap space they have), Michael Thomas has emerged as a WR1 in his own right, and their defense remains pretty bad. So they looked into their roster to see what they could do to get some assets to improve their defense some more--especially their secondary--and concluded that having two WR1s isn't really necessary when Brees is your quarterback. Having concluded that, they decided to keep the one that will be cheaper for longer, and trade the other one.

Despite having a HOF QB at the helm, they haven't finished above .500 since 2013. They just watched their division rivals play in the last two Super Bowls. They're making big moves because they have to, and in their situation it's the right thing to do. It's a decision that can be explained entirely in terms of roster-building, without any need to get into anyone shooting their way out of town or wanting to be gone or anything like that.

As for what he does after the catch and finding a clip of that, you really need to define what you're looking for, and have a clear idea of why that may or may not be included in a highlight reel. You're using YAC and making guys miss interchangeably, which, with a guy like Cooks, they're definitely not. Put on a highlight clip of Cooks, and you're guaranteed to see a ton of YAC. They just mostly come in the form of blowing past guys, and being so fast that he doesn't have to make them miss. What does he do after he gets the ball? He scores a lot of touchdowns.

If, OTOH, you're talking specifically about juking guys out, there's a bunch of answers to that. You mentioned some Saints fans complaining about his YAC, and that requires some context. This complaints mostly came about after the 2015 season, when he averaged 4.6 YAC per catch. That was more than Antonio Brown (4.3). It's a good number. It's not Edelman-high, but the reason for that has less to do with ability and more to do with the routes he's running and how he's being targeted. As a general rule, deeper receivers will have less YPC. The defense has more time to adjust to the ball and the player, you won't have blockers set up in front of you, etc. If you're making a contested catch downfield, you're not going to get any YAC. But that doesn't mean he's not elusive, any more than Antonio Brown is not elusive.

Put another way: in what you've watched are you seeing plays where he should have piled up YAC but was unable to? Because I'm sure not. What I'm seeing is a bunch of highlight reels featuring plays where juking someone out of his shoes was either a) not a possibility (on deep, contested catches) or b) where it would've just turned the 50 yard touchdowns he was getting into 20 yard first downs. Your criticism seems to have more to do with highlight reel play selection than with what they actually show about the player. The stuff on youtube isn't scouting tape, compiled to highlight the various strengths and weaknesses in a guy's game. They aren't trying to show a varied, nuanced take on his game. They're just showing the plays that made people jump out of their seats when they happened. Would you conclude that a WR is a bad blocker because his highlight reel doesn't highlight him blocking downfield? Of course not - for better or worse, highlight reels have a ton of selection bias in what they show, and when you have a player who's really good at 40+ yard touchdowns where he sprints past everyone and high pointing deep balls, you can be certain that any highlight reel will feature a whole lot of that at the expense of everything else.

I'd challenge you to look at it this way: go watch a Saints game, any Saints game, and count the number of times that you think he should have made a guy miss and failed to. If he's coming down with a contested ball in traffic or taking it in for a touchdown, I don't see the point in complaining that he failed to juke a guy out. That's like complaining every time Brady hits Hogan for a 30 yard touchdown that he didn't move the chains with a 10 yard out instead.

For example, take this:

That's 7 minutes plus of Cooks highlights. It's mostly touchdowns, and on a lot of them he just takes the most direct path to the endzone and out-sprints everyone to get there. If he was running a 4.5 40 instead of a 4.3, maybe those would've turned into 20 yard gains where he made a guy miss instead, but I'm happy with (prefer, even) the 40 yard touchdown. The ones that aren't touchdowns are mostly deep throws that he has to come back to, and absorbs contact as he's making the catch or directly after. Nobody's getting YAC after that, except maybe Julio Jones.

But I still counted 6 or 7 instances where he did make a guy miss. Which, not coincidentally, were pretty much every time he was shown catching a ball within 5-10 yards of the LOS. Whenever he got the ball that close to the line, he did a good job getting YAC: he set up and read his blockers well, and he made unblocked defenders miss. The highlights don't feature him doing that a lot, but I think you're making a mistake in taking that to mean that he doesn't do it or can't do it. It's just not the kind of play that the guys putting together youtube highlight reels decide to feature.

If you want to get a more complete picture, you should probably do some combination of watching Saints games, look at scouting reels, and/or look at his measurables to verify that he has the raw physical traits to excel at agility and elusiveness (which he does). His elusiveness is pretty much always cited as one of the most dangerous parts of his game, and for good reason.

BUT...even if he turns out to be as good as you hope, we still face the issue that 2 seasons from now, is it going to be good enough to make this the FIRST WR to get top dollar in nearly 20 years of BB's tenure?

Moss got top dollar. So did Welker, on the franchise tag.

I think Malcolm Brown has been fine. When you are drafting in the 30's all you getting most years is the first choice of players with 2nd round grades. So if THAT guy winds up being a productive starter, it was a good pick. He doesn't have to be a star, though Brown can still get better. 2012 WAS a good draft. Jones and Collins aren't here, but we DID get good production from them while they were. Also I always count UDFA's as part of a draft class, and there is always at least one each year.

Yes, 2012 was a good draft. But those guys, except Hightower, are no longer here, which makes them no more relevant to the current cap structure and talent pipeline than the 2002 draft class.
 
You would make me feel a lot better if you can find even ONE highlight clip where he made a guy miss.

If you aren't finding video of him making people miss, you aren't looking very hard. I've seen video of him running the WR screen where he literally goes through half the other team.
 
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