Unless the Patriots have other assets to trade, the Cooks deal has sealed Garoppolo's fate

[Simpelton]

What would we be looking to get with a first round pick? The only potential gaps left are in the pass rush and at RB. I expect BB to be able to find good fill players for those roles because he's done it before, especially at running back.

I kind of feel like people have made the draft a thing unto itself, and while it's a good source of cost controlled players. the big thing is the roster, not the draft. Right now we don't need a draft to restock the roster with young talent, and in a way that's exactly what we've been using the draft for anyway with trades like Allen and Cooks.

BB isn't going to work the conventional angles unless those are actually the angles that make the most sense for the team. He's focused on the end goal, not on how to get there. If the end goal this year is signings and trades with a smattering of UDFA's, then I trust BB to be on his game in each of these areas.

I think BB is not focused on the future because loading up for 3-4 years from now is unlikely to be productive. Either Brady is the starter and likely in severe decline, or a Garoppolo that may need a few gap seasons to get up to speed. Just because his mechanics are Brady-like doesn't mean he's not going to have some learning to do about how to take on the starter's job fulltime.

Hopefully Jimmy G just picks up where Brady left off, but to be honest, how likely is that actually? He knows what Brady can do. Jimmy G is something to hope for, but to rest only as much certainty on a you have to.

Regardless, the odds of being in a position to win superbowls in 4 years are much lower than the odds to win Superbowls this season and the next one. He's stacking the roster with the best possible chance to head into the transition phase that's likely coming over the next few seasons, with as much hardware as possible. And in true BB fashion he'll handle the transition itself when it comes up.

Point being, eventually you do have to come off the fence and make a decision between building for the future and building for now. BB has been able to keep both balls in the air pretty well, but in the past it's been clear he had a multiyear plan. With Brady in his final seasons that's less true than it's ever been. Who knows what this franchise will look like with Brady gone? There's still a few hours of sunlight left, but you'd better start making hay while it lasts.

 

[The Gr8est]

Maybe Butler signs with NO, Pats don't match and get NO's 1st.

Nope, Goodell would say the Pats get #32 because Goodell says so and because integrity.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

I'm a draft guy as most of you know so I love me lots of draft picks and I get the shakes when thinking of the potential draft haul we might get from a Jimmy G trade. But to be honest, in this instance and assuming we re-sign Hightower, I'm very comfortable with keeping Butler and JG and riding this team to another SB. I mean, even if Brady gets injured week one (everything crossed against this happening), Jimmy could take this team to the SB it's that stacked.

Hmm, interesting. So assuming we don't recoup the lost draft capital, who will still be on the board in Rounds 3-7?

 

[Gumby]

I don't know if this was posted somewhere else already - but it fits here for those who didn't catch it and would like to know the reasoning (and sources) behind two all-important firm beliefs Reiss and Schefter share:

Garoppolo will not be traded.
Hightower will re-sign.

OMF - Mike Reiss talks about the disconnect between the Patriots and Malcolm Butler, 3-10-17

BTW: Pats still have huge cap space - 40M (not accounted Branch & Williams offset by Dola) so they can add whatever they need mid-term in FA instead of Draft.

Also note that what they lost in trades so far is one pick - #32. All others are just moves down, some barely significant.

And they already have a team that (incl. High&Jimmy) looks better than SBLI team (on paper). Well, maybe one DE away but pretty much there.

Keeping Jimmy, getting younger, adding on mid-term quality, having healthy cap .. is far from all-in. They saw opportunities to get better this year and they took them.

to me, with all these trades and giving up the 1st; that means HT is as good as in the bag (in the Pats eyes). IMO the 1st (gone to NO) was the insurance to draft a LB if HT walks. Now the only insurance if he walks is trading JAG to get back into rounds 1-2.

I am also slowly being convinced by shefter/reiss/Lombardi that the Pats are looking at JAG as their insurance policy for up to the next TWO* YEARS against these teams like the Jill's boards posters who said: "we can't beat them, so just take out TB's knees". As well as possibly, the heir. So that trade looks less and less likely.

but I always thought if it (jag trade) happened, it would occur ON draft day and not before. If BB has a specific 1st rnd player in mind as value for JAG, he wants to know who is in front of him/his guy is still there and not trade for 12 and then someone jumps to 11 and gets his guy.

*I am starting to think that a franchise tag could be viewed as an acceptable insurance policy for a 2d year as well. TB only played 15 games this year. Next year, you are looking at 19 games, hopefully. That is a 25-30% increase in wear-tear (not to mention everyone brings the A game to SB champs syndrome). What are the chances over that two-year span he doesn't sit out 2-4 games in one of the two seasons at age 40+????? JAG can ensure you keep HFA or bye week or ?perfect season? -if that is what BB is aiming at. Might be worth all those $s if you can keep rest of pay roster in line for a year (supposes TB has no more than 2 left).

 

[The Gr8est]

I'm a draft guy as most of you know so I love me lots of draft picks and I get the shakes when thinking of the potential draft haul we might get from a Jimmy G trade. But to be honest, in this instance and assuming we re-sign Hightower, I'm very comfortable with keeping Butler and JG and riding this team to another SB. I mean, even if Brady gets injured week one (everything crossed against this happening), Jimmy could take this team to the SB it's that stacked.

I agree. And on a side note, if the Pats were to trade Jimmy I hope it would be to someone other than the Browns; at least if the Browns' fan's message board posts match the Browns front office thinking.

So many posts seem to suggest the Browns could give a 2nd round pick and maybe a bit more and the Pats should just shut up and hand Jimmy over.

I think I would demand more from the Browns than some other teams just due to their arrogance and thinking they are calling the shots.

 

[The Gr8est]

Hmm, interesting. So assuming we don't recoup the lost draft capital, who will still be on the board in Rounds 3-7?

I'll leave this mostly to the true draft experts, but with the TE and RB depth in this draft I expect we could still get good ones with the Pats' remaining picks.

 

[Ronbo]

It does feel like the Cooks move was made with a Jimmy move in mind. It just doesn't seem possible for BB to go into the draft with such little capital, especially in a draft that seems stocked with good talent.

Brady probably has a 2 year window for another Title or 2. The Patriots at this point are trading for veterans so I don't think losing these picks is harmful in the short run. No time for on the job training - time for number 6 and that is where we are headed. If we keep Butler and Hightower I am pleased.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

I agree. And on a side note, if the Pats were to trade Jimmy I hope it would be to someone other than the Browns; at least if the Browns' fan's message board posts match the Browns front office thinking.

So many posts seem to suggest the Browns could give a 2nd round pick and maybe a bit more and the Pats should just shut up and hand Jimmy over.

I think I would demand more from the Browns than some other teams just due to their arrogance and thinking they are calling the shots.

I find it hard to believe they will use all those picks. It's such a crappy organization.
I doubt they would pony up the picks.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

I'll leave this mostly to the true draft experts, but with the TE and RB depth in this draft I expect we could still get good ones with the Pats' remaining picks.

Some pass rushers will be available as well.

 

[manxman2601]

Hmm, interesting. So assuming we don't recoup the lost draft capital, who will still be on the board in Rounds 3-7?

Potentially plenty of talent. Just some names I like:

Howard Wilson, CB, Houston - Slightly raw but tall and athletic CB. Put up very similar numbers at the combine to Logan Ryan

Kareem Hunt, RB, Toledo - Slightly undersized RB at 216lbs but hardly ever fumbles, rarely drops the ball and is arguably the best pass blocker in the draft. Can run the ball too.

Deatrich Wise, DE, Arkansas - Not the most athletic DE in this draft but one of the most physical and with great hand usage. Has Chandler Jones' length and the physicality/hand use of Trey Flowers.

Damontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State
Corn Elder, CB, Miami - Two nickel only CBs that are outstanding against the run and are pretty darn good pass defenders too.

Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova - A freak athlete for his size at 6-7, 289. He's raw but has tremendous upside.

There are also some pretty good TEs to be had too. Jake Butt (injured), George Kittle (great blocker and surprisingly athletic), Michael Roberts (11" hands) and Jonnu Smith (arguably the most all-round athletic TE in the draft for his size).

These are all prospects I'd be delighted to draft in rounds 3-7.

 

[Simpelton]

Hmm, interesting. So assuming we don't recoup the lost draft capital, who will still be on the board in Rounds 3-7?

In my opinion, you worry about that when you get there.

In the late rounds, it's less about the players that are right for you, as much as as the players that are left for you.

Late rounds are not for targeting players. BB abandoning the first couple rounds is a pretty strong indicator that there's no one in this draft class that he feels he really can't do without anyway.

 

[Deus Irae]

 

[RIpats88]

I think Jimmy is gone. All this is just posturing as bill belichick knows the browns are the only team with enough capital and a team stupid enough he can fleece. I mean the team used a 1st rounder on johnny manziel. Bb wants to take these guys behind the woodshed

Im sure he likes jimmy. But if the browns offer you a trove of #12, 2nd rounders and future first rounders for a guy who played 1 1/2 quarters of meaningfully nfl football you take it

 

[IllegalContact]

Hmm, interesting. So assuming we don't recoup the lost draft capital, who will still be on the board in Rounds 3-7?

Joe Mixon

 

[manxman2601]

Joe Mixon

He probably won't even be there but I doubt a Kraft owned team drafts him..

 

[Deus Irae]

I think Jimmy is gone. All this is just posturing as bill belichick knows the browns are the only team with enough capital and a team stupid enough he can fleece. I mean the team used a 1st rounder on johnny manziel. Bb wants to take these guys behind the woodshed

Im sure he likes jimmy. But if the browns offer you a trove of #12, 2nd rounders and future first rounders for a guy who played 1 1/2 quarters of meaningfully nfl football you take it

Thinking rationally about it, Jimmy stays if:

• BB thinks Jimmy's the Steve Young to Brady's Montana
• BB thinks Jacoby absolutely cannot get it done as the QB2 at this point and BB doesn't want to try bringing in a veteran backup
• The offers are actually much worse than we've been led to believe

Jimmy's gone if:
Pretty much anything else

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Potentially plenty of talent. Just some names I like:

Howard Wilson, CB, Houston - Slightly raw but tall and athletic CB. Put up very similar numbers at the combine to Logan Ryan

Kareem Hunt, RB, Toledo - Slightly undersized RB at 216lbs but hardly ever fumbles, rarely drops the ball and is arguably the best pass blocker in the draft. Can run the ball too.

Deatrich Wise, DE, Arkansas - Not the most athletic DE in this draft but one of the most physical and with great hand usage. Has Chandler Jones' length and the physicality/hand use of Trey Flowers.

Damontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State
Corn Elder, CB, Miami - Two nickel only CBs that are outstanding against the run and are pretty darn good pass defenders too.

Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova - A freak athlete for his size at 6-7, 289. He's raw but has tremendous upside.

There are also some pretty good TEs to be had too. Jake Butt (injured), George Kittle (great blocker and surprisingly athletic), Michael Roberts (11" hands) and Jonnu Smith (arguably the most all-round athletic TE in the draft for his size).

These are all prospects I'd be delighted to draft in rounds 3-7.

A guy like rivers could be there as well. Carraway from tcu.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

As poster Simpleton wrote, BB is unconventional. His MO IMHO is try to thrive off of the misfortunes of the misguided. Misguided: get value from underrated or as yet realized cheaper players(teams that aren't using the player right or developing right), trade away players whose names have grown bigger than their value (thanks to a misguided media's overinflation and HCs/GMs looking for media splash names). Whether BB's MO works out best is a year to year evaluation.

What that means for JAG or Butler or HT is ..... who the hell knows. Conventional wisdom/everyone will say it all adds up to professor plum with the candlestick in the library -- only to be shocked to find out it was colonel mustard with the lead pipe in the billiard room.

 

[resdubwhite]

It's like Christmas morning. In March.
Not sure what deal I like more. Ealy or Cooks. I too think it's highly likely were standing pat with Jimmy and Malcolm.

 

[amazinPats]

If there are any tea leaves to be read regarding the Cleveland stockpiling of picks, it would suggest, as Deus has already mentioned that Tom Brady is the trade target, and not Jimmy G. I personally think we ride into the season with both quarterbacks. The possibility of trading either of them still exists next year as well. Cleveland has two first rounders next year as well.