So, Let's Talk About Day Three

[manxman2601]

What a weird draft year. Day three is clearly the focus now short of any more shoes dropping although we still have two 3rd round picks....for now.

I think I'll lock in Howard Wilson and Deatrich Wise as things stand.

What day three/late day two prospects do you have?

 

[long distance]

The problem will be with 3-down LB and DL/ED combo. Although I have Wise from the beginning.

RB: Conner etc.

OT: Davenport, Norton, McDermot

TE: Roberts, Kittlle, Brown (+ looks like one of Leggett, Butt will fall there)

S: John Johnson

OLB: Phillips, Biegel

DT: Vanderdoes, Smart etc.

plenty WRs; we need to dig deep at low end CBs. BB is testing us!
___

still they have #72 and #96 - two very good options will still be there

more importantly the dealing is far from over (and i don't mean Jimmy)
BB will not go to Draft without at least one 2nd rounder..
___

Or maybe he's just telling Roga, look, I can take away our top picks myself..

 

[manxman2601]

The problem will be with 3-down LB and DL/ED combo. Although I have Wise from the beginning.

RB: Conner etc.

OT: Davenport, Norton, McDermot

TE: Roberts, Kittlle, Brown (+ looks like one of Leggett, Butt will fall there)

S: John Johnson

OLB: Phillips, Biegel

DT: Vanderdoes, Smart etc.

plenty WRs; we need to dig deep at low end CBs. BB is testing us!
___

still they have #72 and #96 - two very good options will still be there

more importantly the dealing is far from over (and i don't mean Jimmy)
BB will not go to Draft without at least one 2nd rounder..
___

Or maybe he's just telling Roga, look, I can take away our top picks myself..

I'm with you and Wise. I wasn't overly-enamoured at first but he's been growing on me. He's almost at "certain pick" status now. Just seems like a very BB pick.

 

[manxman2601]

FWIW, here's a list posted in the main forum in response to a question as to might be available in rounds 3-7.

Potentially plenty of talent. Just some names I like:

Howard Wilson, CB, Houston - Slightly raw but tall and athletic CB. Put up very similar numbers at the combine to Logan Ryan

Kareem Hunt, RB, Toledo - Slightly undersized RB at 216lbs but hardly ever fumbles, rarely drops the ball and is arguably the best pass blocker in the draft. Can run the ball too.

Deatrich Wise, DE, Arkansas - Not the most athletic DE in this draft but one of the most physical and with great hand usage. Has Chandler Jones' length and the physicality/hand use of Trey Flowers.

Damontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State
Corn Elder, CB, Miami - Two nickel only CBs that are outstanding against the run and are pretty darn good pass defenders too.

Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova - A freak athlete for his size at 6-7, 289. He's raw but has tremendous upside.

There are also some pretty good TEs to be had too. Jake Butt (injured), George Kittle (great blocker and surprisingly athletic), Michael Roberts (11" hands) and Jonnu Smith (arguably the most all-round athletic TE in the draft for his size).

These are all prospects I'd be delighted to draft in rounds 3-7.

I know we're all familiar with the names but even without any Garropolo/Butler action there's plenty of quality backups and role players and even projectable starters available.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

One of the considerations that I think bb has taken into account by trading for Allen, ealy and cooks is that he can get second round value into the fourth round of this draft.

The key pice of the puzzle to finishing a great offseason is to sign Hightower. Then we draft for depth at de, dt, lb and rb.

 

[Gabriel_p94]

Just when you think BB is going to zig he does a damn back flip. Im still holding out hope for engram to slip somehow ( i highly doubt it) to one of our picks. I know we dont need him especially after getting cooks but I think his size and athletic ability would be a nightmare for defenses. But maybe im just being selfish lol.

 

[BobDigital]

First 3 picks are 72. 96 and 132 right now. Considering value for those spots and need on the team I'd say.

C - Pocic/Eifien - I like both of them okay and go back and forth. Whoever is left will be good value I think.
OG - stand pat
OT - stand pat
QB - stand pat
WR - stand pat.
RB - Perine/Foreman - If one of these guys is there in round 3 you need to consider it. Otherwise wait on RB.
TE - stand pat. There are interesting prospects but at this point I would wait till round 5 to explore them.
DE - Lawson, someone else alls but IDK who.
DT - stand pat. I like the value later and no rush to fill a spot here.
LB - Need to look into it more.
CB - K. King, Sutton, Lewis, Tankersly... One or all could fall to 72 or even 96.
S - stand pat unless someone too good falls.

As of now factoring in need and value my board for the 3rd is Pocic/Eifien - C, Perine/Foreman - RB, Lawson/surprise faller - DE, K. King/Sutton/Lewis/Tankersly - CB. So 9 players I named. I need to look into LB more though. I am sure a few names there that could be value would interest me.

 

[stelfans]

Isn't wise kind of older? I thought I read something regarding that. Don't see what people see in him.

I agree that we can still get great value later on. Let's not forget Bill would make some wtf picks early anyway, maybe this time people won't complain lol.

 

[luuked]

FWIW, here's a list posted in the main forum in response to a question as to might be available in rounds 3-7.

Potentially plenty of talent. Just some names I like:

Howard Wilson, CB, Houston - Slightly raw but tall and athletic CB. Put up very similar numbers at the combine to Logan Ryan

Kareem Hunt, RB, Toledo - Slightly undersized RB at 216lbs but hardly ever fumbles, rarely drops the ball and is arguably the best pass blocker in the draft. Can run the ball too.

Deatrich Wise, DE, Arkansas - Not the most athletic DE in this draft but one of the most physical and with great hand usage. Has Chandler Jones' length and the physicality/hand use of Trey Flowers.

Damontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State
Corn Elder, CB, Miami - Two nickel only CBs that are outstanding against the run and are pretty darn good pass defenders too.

Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova - A freak athlete for his size at 6-7, 289. He's raw but has tremendous upside.

There are also some pretty good TEs to be had too. Jake Butt (injured), George Kittle (great blocker and surprisingly athletic), Michael Roberts (11" hands) and Jonnu Smith (arguably the most all-round athletic TE in the draft for his size).

These are all prospects I'd be delighted to draft in rounds 3-7.

I know we're all familiar with the names but even without any Garropolo/Butler action there's plenty of quality backups and role players and even projectable starters available.

If we get an extension done with Butler I am not sure CB will be on the menu. And yes I know how deep that class is but there is literally no space on the roster for more DBs.

If we don't get an extension done Butler is either gone this year or next and then we have a different story.

Personally, I'd focus now mostly on DE and LBs while keeping an eye on TEs and RBs.

 

[manxman2601]

If we get an extension done with Butler I am not sure CB will be on the menu. And yes I know how deep that class is but there is literally no space on the roster for more DBs.

If we don't get an extension done Butler is either gone this year or next and then we have a different story.

Personally, I'd focus now mostly on DE and LBs while keeping an eye on TEs and RBs.

I'm not sure Justin Coleman is a lock for the roster. Butler, Gilmore, Rowe, Jones, Jones, Howard Wilson works for me.

 

[luuked]

I'm not sure Justin Coleman is a lock for the roster. Butler, Gilmore, Rowe, Jones, Jones, Howard Wilson works for me.

Not disagreeing at all with the notion. I was just thinking what positions I'd rather take a shot at if we lock up Butler/Gilmore..

 

[maineman209]

First 3 picks are 72. 96 and 132 right now. Considering value for those spots and need on the team I'd say.

C - Pocic/Eifien - I like both of them okay and go back and forth. Whoever is left will be good value I think.
OG - stand pat
OT - stand pat
QB - stand pat
WR - stand pat.
RB - Perine/Foreman - If one of these guys is there in round 3 you need to consider it. Otherwise wait on RB.
TE - stand pat. There are interesting prospects but at this point I would wait till round 5 to explore them.
DE - Lawson, someone else alls but IDK who.
DT - stand pat. I like the value later and no rush to fill a spot here.
LB - Need to look into it more.
CB - K. King, Sutton, Lewis, Tankersly... One or all could fall to 72 or even 96.
S - stand pat unless someone too good falls.

As of now factoring in need and value my board for the 3rd is Pocic/Eifien - C, Perine/Foreman - RB, Lawson/surprise faller - DE, K. King/Sutton/Lewis/Tankersly - CB. So 9 players I named. I need to look into LB more though. I am sure a few names there that could be value would interest me.

Not a fan of Foreman since I saw a pic of him carrying the ball like the proverbial loaf of bread - and then discovered that he's fumbled once every 56 touches through his college career.

Other than that, me likely!

 

[maineman209]

I'm not sure Justin Coleman is a lock for the roster. Butler, Gilmore, Rowe, Jones, Jones, Howard Wilson works for me.

Given that NONE of the roster-end guys are "locks" ...

Coleman's defensive snap percentage (as, more or less, CB #4 for both seasons) dropped from 27.5% in 2015 to 22% in 2016, and his total ST snaps only increased from 35 to 65. I actually wasn't aware that he was on the field on defense even THAT much, since I don't remember his name/number being called, although he did have 3 PDs and 8 tackles.

OTOH, Coleman still had more defensive snaps per game active than either of the Jones boys (Jon Jones was almost exclusively a special teamer). Coleman is also by far the most athletic of the three (by testing numbers - 3.98 shuttle, 6.61 3-cone).

That said, it's a virtual certainty that BB brings in DB competition for these guys during draft weekend.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Not a fan of Foreman since I saw a pic of him carrying the ball like the proverbial loaf of bread - and then discovered that he's fumbled once every 56 touches through his college career.

Other than that, me likely!

He also had a broken hand, which he said made it harder for him to hold on to the ball. A couple of his fumbles were after he pushed a scrum and multiple people pulled the ball and eventually worked it out of his hands. I think he could improve drastically in that regard. He's the best big back in the draft, for my money. Quicker, smoother, and more natural than Connor. Won't cost a top 10 pick like Fournette. Great production. Gives us a hammer along with more speed than Blount had. I wouldn't mind him at all.

Also. I'm also starting to come around to the idea that we'll trade Butler. I'd be sad for sure. Imagine, though, if we got King and Wilson in the draft?

Gilmore:

Height: 6004
Weight: 190
40 Yrd Dash: 4.40
20 Yrd Dash: 2.54
10 Yrd Dash: 1.52
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 15
Vertical Jump: 36
Broad Jump: 10'03"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.94
3-Cone Drill: 6.61

Rowe:

Height: 6006
Weight: 205
40 Yrd Dash: 4.45
20 Yrd Dash: 2.61
10 Yrd Dash: 1.56
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 19
Vertical Jump: 39
Broad Jump: 10'05"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.97
3-Cone Drill: 6.70

King:

Height: 6032
Weight: 200
40 Yrd Dash: 4.43
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash:
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 11
Vertical Jump: 39 1/2
Broad Jump:
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.89
3-Cone Drill: 6.56

Wilson:

Height: 6006
Weight: 184
40 Yrd Dash: 4.57
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash:
Vertical Jump: 33 1/2
Broad Jump: 09'09"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.94
3-Cone Drill: 6.68


That would probably be the best combination of size and quickness in the history of the NFL, at least by the testing numbers. Oh, and Coleman might lack the size, but he's pretty agile himself:

Height: 5105
Weight: 185
40 Yrd Dash: 4.53
20 Yrd Dash: 2.60
10 Yrd Dash: 1.54
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 20
Vertical Jump: 37 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'04"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.98
3-Cone Drill: 6.61

Only the Jones kids would miss our sub 4 sec SS and sub 6.7 3-cone club.

 

[jboston19]

Dalvin Tomlinson seems like a Patriot to me. Bill never has enough linemen and he's a very high character guy from Bama.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

I think the butler trade is still happening. They aren't going to risk losing him for nothing, and they aren't going in to next summer with both him and JimmyG needing a tag.

One of them gets dealt, and I am betting on Butler at this stage. Could even be both, given all the surprises already.

 

[manxman2601]

Before last season started I wrote a post saing that, in theory, we could end up with three first round picks this offseason. Whilst I thought it possible, I also thought it would be a stretch. It would be ironic if it was almost right but failed because we traded our own pick for a WR. Now that could not have been forseen.

 

[maineman209]

He also had a broken hand, which he said made it harder for him to hold on to the ball. A couple of his fumbles were after he pushed a scrum and multiple people pulled the ball and eventually worked it out of his hands. I think he could improve drastically in that regard. He's the best big back in the draft, for my money. Quicker, smoother, and more natural than Connor. Won't cost a top 10 pick like Fournette. Great production. Gives us a hammer along with more speed than Blount had. I wouldn't mind him at all.

Also. I'm also starting to come around to the idea that we'll trade Butler. I'd be sad for sure. Imagine, though, if we got King and Wilson in the draft?

Gilmore:

Height: 6004
Weight: 190
40 Yrd Dash: 4.40
20 Yrd Dash: 2.54
10 Yrd Dash: 1.52
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 15
Vertical Jump: 36
Broad Jump: 10'03"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.94
3-Cone Drill: 6.61

Rowe:

Height: 6006
Weight: 205
40 Yrd Dash: 4.45
20 Yrd Dash: 2.61
10 Yrd Dash: 1.56
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 19
Vertical Jump: 39
Broad Jump: 10'05"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.97
3-Cone Drill: 6.70

King:

Height: 6032
Weight: 200
40 Yrd Dash: 4.43
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash:
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 11
Vertical Jump: 39 1/2
Broad Jump:
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.89
3-Cone Drill: 6.56

Wilson:

Height: 6006
Weight: 184
40 Yrd Dash: 4.57
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash:
Vertical Jump: 33 1/2
Broad Jump: 09'09"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.94
3-Cone Drill: 6.68


That would probably be the best combination of size and quickness in the history of the NFL, at least by the testing numbers. Oh, and Coleman might lack the size, but he's pretty agile himself:

Height: 5105
Weight: 185
40 Yrd Dash: 4.53
20 Yrd Dash: 2.60
10 Yrd Dash: 1.54
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 20
Vertical Jump: 37 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'04"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.98
3-Cone Drill: 6.61

Only the Jones kids would miss our sub 4 sec SS and sub 6.7 3-cone club.

One of the things I've liked best about Wilson from the (limited) tape I've seen is how explosively, aggressively and effectively he plays the run (without biting on fakes).

Getting back to Foreman ... I like how dynamic and productive he was as a senior, but he fumbled at the same rate during his first two college seasons, too.

While there's always a chance that Foreman could improve his ball security with NFL (Patriots) coaching, typically RBs fumble at a higher rate as rookies in the NFL than they did in college and only begin to improve late in their 2nd year or in their 3rd year (if ever).

For the past 8 seasons, the Pats' "lead" RB has averaged 15 carries and 60 yds per game. The only two seasons above that were 2012 (Ridley, 18 carries/79 yards) and 2016 (Blount, 19 carries/73 yards).

For six of those years, the Pats were among the top six in the NFL for rushing TDs. In 2014 and 2015, the only two seasons that Scar was NOT the OL coach, they dropped out of the top ten in rushing TDs. And in 2015, they ranked 25th in rushing attempts and 30th in rushing yards ( otherwise around 10th in both categories).

Given how little production has typically been required of a "lead" RB and how much BB harps on turnovers, as long as Scar is the OL coach I'm just not sure it's worth the risk since there are numerous other viable options.

 

[mihap]

Deatrich Wise, DE, Arkansas - Not the most athletic DE in this draft but one of the most physical and with great hand usage. Has Chandler Jones' length and the physicality/hand use of Trey Flowers.
Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova - A freak athlete for his size at 6-7, 289. He's raw but has tremendous upside.

Which round you mock Deatrich Wise. He has some Chandler Jones in him also 10 pounds heavier. Nice find
Some of you guys mentioned this Kpassagnon guy so maybe as real late rounder, but mixed feelings.

 

[manxman2601]

Which round you mock Deatrich Wise. He has some Chandler Jones in him also 10 pounds heavier. Nice find
Some of you guys mentioned this Kpassagnon guy so maybe as real late rounder, but mixed feelings.

I have mixed feelings about Kpassagnon too - he's raw and looks a little stiff. But there's no denying he has upside based upon his athleticism and size.

As for Wise, I think 4th or 5th is about right for him. Although he's a very good match for Chandler Jones in terms of combine athleticism, he doesn't look as athletic as Jones on tape. I think he jas an outside chance of being a decent role player bordering on starter. I think he has a similar projection coming out as Flowers did and he went in the 4th.