Killing an Often Repeated Myth

[patriot1136]

Going back to the Montana/Brady discussion, it is more impressive to me that the Pats and Brady did this in the salary cap era. Big difference I think.

 

[Deus Irae]

Even if you look towards wins and losses, since 2006, Tom Brady a/k/a the Patriots has/have not lost a playoff game against any team that did not bring that sort of defense to the game:

2007 - Giants
2008 - No Brady, no playoffs
2009 - Ravens
2010 - Jets
2011 - Giants
2012 - Ravens
2013 - Broncos
2014 - SB champs
2015 - Broncos
2016 - SB champs

It is what it is.

 

[fightingirish595]

Even if you look towards wins and losses, since 2006, Tom Brady a/k/a the Patriots has/have not lost a playoff game against any team that did not bring that sort of defense to the game:

2007 - Giants
2008 - No Brady, no playoffs
2009 - Ravens
2010 - Jets
2011 - Giants
2012 - Ravens
2013 - Broncos
2014 - SB champs
2015 - Broncos
2016 - SB champs

It is what it is.

And he beat some teams in those years that did play like that. The 2010 jets beat us with mostly coverage though

 

[The Brandon Five]

I am saying if you compare Tom Brady and the patriots vs playoff and SB teams they win more often than any QB in history does in the regular season.

It's irrelevant to me which were wins and losses. They are better against the best than the next best guy is against the average

No argument from me. I was addressing a counter-argument.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm tired of people idiotically arguing against every freakin' point that doesn't say "Patriots can do every damn thing they want, to anyone they want!". The reality, and it is a reality, is that the so-called "Blueprint" for playing against Brady is real. It doesn't mean that Brady can't beat teams who deploy it. It means that he's more likely to struggle against them.

It's the simple, accurate, flip side to the other reality, which is that some types of defenses give opponents almost no chance against Brady (i.e. Steelers).

as far as "blueprint" I have never considered "be good enough pass rushers to beat your man all day so a team that wins in the passing game has less time to throw" to be a blueprint.
Have better players isn't a game plan.

 

[Ring 6]

I do think the Superbowl one is too small a sample size, that playoff one is fair though

Is what it is and it's the largest SB sample you can have.
5-2 in SBs is better than anyone else's record in regular season games is a meaningful fact to me.

 

[Deus Irae]

as far as "blueprint" I have never considered "be good enough pass rushers to beat your man all day so a team that wins in the passing game has less time to throw" to be a blueprint.
Have better players isn't a game plan.

If you keep moving the goalposts, you'll eventually find a set of circumstances that make you correct. The "myth" is what you're talking about, so changing the "myth" is changing your argument.

 

[fightingirish595]

Is what it is and it's the largest SB sample you can have.
5-2 in SBs is better than anyone else's record in regular season games is a meaningful fact to me.

Then the same must be considered for Montana and Bradshaw. in terms of that specific stat. (SB winning percentage vs regular season winning percentage

 

[deroc5050]

Well, we do struggle when we playing against Tom Coughlin and the Giants, reason being that they match up well against us, Tom knows exactly what BB's plan is and his tendencies. Remember how all these times when we play the big games, there is a coaching advantage? Well playing against Tom Coughlin eliminates that. He also knows how BB takes a bunch of C rated players around the league and though coaching or match ups, making them playing like A rated players in the field. But Tom Coughlin knows this, and he designs certain match-ups to take away that advantage. All those games playing against the giants, I felt that our players were reverting back to their real baseline, and all the advantages Brady enjoys when he play other teams went away. We never had an easy win against those giants teams.

I just think it was pure **** luck that the Giants won. Both times and I can point to numerous plays that would have iced the game for the Patriots in both games.

 

[Ring 6]

If you keep moving the goalposts, you'll eventually find a set of circumstances that make you correct. The "myth" is what you're talking about, so changing the "myth" is changing your argument.

This is where you become impossible to have an adult discussion with.
I made a statement. You responded as if I said something else. I clarify where your misunderstanding is and yiuvtell me you know what I meant and I don't.

 

[fightingirish595]

I just think it was pure **** luck that the Giants won. Both times and I can point to numerous plays that would have iced the game for the Patriots in both games.

Oh My God

 

[upstater1]

Some people have said that until Sunday, Brady didn't have great comebacks under his belt.

Never mind: Super Bowls in 2003 and 2014. Or, games against Denver in 2013 and New Orleans in 2012 (Kenbrell Thompkins).

By the way, I have seen opposing players celebrate victory prematurely against the Patriots a number of times. Saints (and coaches too!), Denver too.

Brady is actually a comeback king.

 

[fightingirish595]

Some people have said that until Sunday, Brady didn't have great comebacks under his belt.

Never mind: Super Bowls in 2003 and 2014. Or, games against Denver in 2013 and New Orleans in 2012 (Kenbrell Thompkins).

By the way, I have seen opposing players celebrate victory prematurely against the Patriots a number of times. Saints (and coaches too!), Denver too.

Brady is actually a comeback king.

HAHAHAHAHAHA whoever said that isnt even worth discussing football with. I still Remember that Panthers player in SB 38 saying its not over, not with that Quarterback.

 

[Deus Irae]

This is where you become impossible to have an adult discussion with.
I made a statement. You responded as if I said something else. I clarify where your misunderstanding is and yiuvtell me you know what I meant and I don't.

Andy, you were talking out of your ass. Instead of just saying something like "Good points, people. I got a little carried away", you keep doubling down. That's on you, not on anyone else.

Nobody says the blueprint is to be really ****ty in your attempt to rush with 4 and use man coverage behind it.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

It certainly would have fueled the narrative for the haters.

the comeback has the haters *****ing anyway. no stopping them.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, you were talking out of your ass. Instead of just saying something like "Good points, people. I got a little carried away", you keep doubling down. That's on you, not on anyone else.

What good points?
I started a thread to point out that when people say the Patriots don't do as well against good teams in playoff competition, they actually do better in the playoffs than anyone else does in the regular season. Why would I not 'double down' on a true and accurate fact?

Nobody says the blueprint is to be really ****ty in your attempt to rush with 4 and use man coverage behind it.

Which is why it isn't a blueprint.

 

[Ring 6]

Then the same must be considered for Montana and Bradshaw. in terms of that specific stat. (SB winning percentage vs regular season winning percentage

Why?
I am saying Brady wins more against playoff and SB competition that anyone else has won against any type of competition.
Losing before you get to the SB doesn't mean you were better than the guy who got there and won.
Montana 16-7 in postseason, Brady 25-9

 

[deroc5050]

Oh My God

David Tyree.. Asante Samuels non interception.. Wes Welkers drop.. If any of those plays go the Pats way we are talking about ..well possibly talking about 7 Super Bowl victories.

I realize you can always play devils advocate.

 

[everlong]

BTW it's not like Montana didn't struggle against certain defenses in the playoffs.

1984 NYG 25/39, 309 yards, 3 TD, 3 INT, 82.1 rating W 21-10
1984 CHI 18/34, 233 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT, 60.0 rating, W 23-0
1985 NYG 26/47, 296 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT, 65.6 rating, L 17-3
1986 NYG 8/15 98 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT, 34.2 rating, L 49-3 (knocked out of game)
1987 Minn 12/26, 109 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT, 42.0 rating, L 36-24

85-87 one and done.

 

[Deus Irae]

What good points?
I started a thread to point out that when people say the Patriots don't do as well against good teams in playoff competition, they actually do better in the playoffs than anyone else does in the regular season. Why would I not 'double down' on a true and accurate fact?

You're taking assertion "a" and arguing it's wrong because of something that doesn't refute assertion "a". The argument isn't that their record is better, or worse, in the playoffs. The argument is that Brady struggles more against a specific defensive game plan, and set of personnel, than against others. Again, you know this. You're being dishonest with your posts, and you know that too.

Which is why it isn't a blueprint.

You're talking out of your ass again.

I've made my points. I've demonstrated your argument to be wrong. I'm done with you in this thread. Feel free to keep making yourself look like an idiot, if you choose.