Mike Lombardi on the Jamie Collins trade..

[ViperGTS]

Or, they had talks with both Collins AND Hightower prior to the season, so know the price for both was going to be too much to keep two, saw High playing great and hurt and being a team leader and Collins freelancing, and decided, okay, it's High. So they'll pay him market value and let Collins go.

This pretty much sums it up. Plus they gave High a status locker that speaks volumes as to how they view him and his future with the team.

 

[Lansdowne]

MP shouldn't have to be the first line, that's why I asked about players.

What's MP mean? Just wondering.

Edit - Wait I think I got it now... Matt Patricia

 

[cmasspatsfan]

My problem isn't so much that Collins was traded (even though I fully disagree with it), but the return.

We have the best team in the league and a GOAT QB, who even though he may be having one of the best seasons in his career, is still 39-years-old and we have no real idea how much time is left in his career.

You need to go all-in, right now, while you still have Brady playing. If you're going to cut bait with Collins, fine okay, but to not get a single player in return that can help this team, THIS SEASON, that to me is unfathomable.

You're telling me we seriously couldn't get a Joe Haden in return with say a 5th round pick? Instead we get a 2018 3rd? WTF?

I'm sorry, but that to me is indefensible. Trade Collins, fine, but get a player in return that will help this team win a Super Bowl this season, not a rookie two years from now, when Brady may be long gone.

Unless you think BB and Caserio are morons I think they probably got the best they could, whoever gets him it's just for 8 games and it appears he wants a pretty big contract.

 

[luuked]

Right. But the Jills missed several opportunities with Taylor throwing too hard, too high, his receivers dropping the ball, etc. Against a better offense that
might have been 40, not 25.

Against a better QB we would have played differently. Every time I hear those arguments I facepalm internally and wonder when some people will catch on that we are a gameplanning team that shifts the way we are playing from week to week.

Taylor is not a good passer so daring him to pass more often just emphasizes his weakness. He will hit on some throws but chances are that he will be right around his average and miss more than he hits.

 

[luuked]

My problem isn't so much that Collins was traded (even though I fully disagree with it), but the return.

We have the best team in the league and a GOAT QB, who even though he may be having one of the best seasons in his career, is still 39-years-old and we have no real idea how much time is left in his career.

You need to go all-in, right now, while you still have Brady playing. If you're going to cut bait with Collins, fine okay, but to not get a single player in return that can help this team, THIS SEASON, that to me is unfathomable.

You're telling me we seriously couldn't get a Joe Haden in return with say a 5th round pick? Instead we get a 2018 3rd? WTF?

I'm sorry, but that to me is indefensible. Trade Collins, fine, but get a player in return that will help this team win a Super Bowl this season, not a rookie two years from now, when Brady may be long gone.

Why would the Browns trade away Joe Haden for 8 games of Collins ? They have enough cap space to eat up his contract even if he never reverts back to being the 2014 version of himself. He is not old and doesn't seem to be a terrible distraction.

On the flipside, whats the point of a half season rental who has not played up to his level in over a year ? Unless you'd want to have Haden over Butler or think that BB would actually keep two CBs with 10m+ salaries which given history is just not happening.

You and others often come at trades with those fantasy arguments that are based on so many assumptions that its ridiculous.

Also, finally, BB is the coach of the New England Patriots and not the Tom Brady Patriots. It is about the team not about one player as there is life after Brady.

 

[slash83]

I just hope a move is made tomorrow before the deadline, vey thin at LB and besides Butler the other corners are really starting to concern me.

 

[luuked]

I just hope a move is made tomorrow before the deadline, vey thin at LB and besides Butler the other corners are really starting to concern me.

I would not get my hopes up about any significant reinforcements at CB. You got Butler as your CB1 and Ryan/Howe working "good enough" as CB2. Doubt that there is a reasonably priced player out there that would be an instant upgrade over those two.

 

[supafly]

I just hope a move is made tomorrow before the deadline, vey thin at LB and besides Butler the other corners are really starting to concern me.

I'm not sure they are quite as thin at LB as many have seemed to suggest, but that's just me. I think we could see Ninkovich/McClellin back into the mix, along with a larger role for Barkavious Mingo.

Add in the continued progress with Elandon Roberts and things may not be quite as bad as they first seemed. I may be wrong, but I think the newly acquired Van Noy was starting in DET, as well.

 

[slash83]

I'm not sure they are quite as thin at LB as many have seemed to suggest, but that's just me. I think we could see Ninkovich/McClellin back into the mix, along with a larger role for Barkavious Mingo.

Add in the continued progress with Elandon Roberts and things may not be quite as bad as they first seemed. I may be wrong, but I think the newly acquired Van Noy was starting in DET, as well.

Pats diffidently have the bodies, time will tell how big the talent level drop-off will be.

 

[PF_SU]

I may be wrong, but I think the newly acquired Van Noy was starting in DET, as well.

But apparently he sucked there. I don't think the team needs to trade for a LB. If available (a big if) I'd rather trade for a player on the defensive line. That's the more pressing area of concern in my eyes.

 

[TomPatriot]

Against a better QB we would have played differently. Every time I hear those arguments I facepalm internally and wonder when some people will catch on that we are a gameplanning team that shifts the way we are playing from week to week.

Taylor is not a good passer so daring him to pass more often just emphasizes his weakness. He will hit on some throws but chances are that he will be right around his average and miss more than he hits.

Pretty insulting post. You can facepalm internally all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you'd be facing a better, more accurate QB. And exactly how do gameplan when one of your best defensive players is freelancing, which basically means ruining the gameplan by not doing his job? Btw, every team has a game plan for every game; the Patriots aren't exactly unique in that regard.

 

[supafly]

I would not get my hopes up about any significant reinforcements at CB. You got Butler as your CB1 and Ryan/Howe working "good enough" as CB2. Doubt that there is a reasonably priced player out there that would be an instant upgrade over those two.

Boy, would it be nice to snag another reliable tackle, particularly if you're concerned about the potential of Vollmer to miss the season.

 

[supafly]

But apparently he sucked there. I don't think the team needs to trade for a LB. If available (a big if) I'd rather trade for a player on the defensive line. That's the more pressing area of concern in my eyes.

I just meant that you could include him in the mix too, that's all.

 

[luuked]

Pretty insulting post. You can facepalm internally all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you'd be facing a better, more accurate QB. And exactly how do gameplan when one of your best defensive players is freelancing, which basically means ruining the gameplan by not doing his job? Btw, every team has a game plan for every game; the Patriots aren't exactly unique in that regard.

It's insulting because your premise is simply stupid.

You take how our defense performs against team A and then substitute that team for a completely different one that has its unique strengths and weaknesses and then claim that the other team would have been more successful but ignore the completely obvious fact that our defensive gameplan would be different to take advantage of the substitute teams weaknesses.

And for some reason in your response Collins has gone from "sometimes" freelancing (as per media) to make it sound like he is constantly doing it which is yet another hyperbole.

And, finally, go out and watch other teams and you will not see more than a handful that have the players and coaches to transform who they are on offense and defense on a weekly basis like the Patriots. More than half of the teams in this league fail because they can't find a coherent identity, and the majority of those lucky few who can clings to that identity in most of the games. Yes, sure, there are some wrinkles here and there plus the typical scripted/scheme plays but e.g. the Broncos, Vikings or Seahawks are who they are and will neither surprise you on offense or defense. And that is the huge difference..

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

Or, they had talks with both Collins AND Hightower prior to the season, so know the price for both was going to be too much to keep two, saw High playing great and hurt and being a team leader and Collins freelancing, and decided, okay, it's High. So they'll pay him market value and let Collins go.

So why dont wait the FA and get a 3rd for him? Just to bury him in Cleveland?

If they are going to be big time players that make sense because some big time FA would match JC money, but if its not the case i think there is a lot more behind this move...

 

[DarrylS]

IMO Hue Jackson framed the issue as well as it can be.. the Pats would prefer a disciplined player over a freelancer... and then want Von Miller money??

"Hey, the way he freelances is okay with me,'' said Jackson. "What happened there is not what's important for us here. We see a player that's very talented and has a tremendous skillset that fits in with what we do. So he's a Cleveland Brown now.''

 

[RobertWeathers]

IMO Hue Jackson framed the issue as well as it can be.. the Pats would prefer a disciplined player over a freelancer... and then want Von Miller money??

Hue will be out of a job within 16 months anyway.

 

[luuked]

So why dont wait the FA and get a 3rd for him? Just to bury him in Cleveland?

If they are going to be big time players that make sense because some big time FA would match JC money, but if its not the case i think there is a lot more behind this move...

Money is not the primary driver for compensatory picks but the number of qualifying FAs you sign.

 

[slash83]

IMO Hue Jackson framed the issue as well as it can be.. the Pats would prefer a disciplined player over a freelancer... and then want Von Miller money??

Hey gotta respect the man least he straight up and doesn't give zero fuks about the freelancing.

 

[Clonamery]

Hey gotta respect the man least he straight up and doesn't give zero fuks about the freelancing.

Yup. 0-8.