PATS TRADE JAMIE COLLINS!!!

[HawaiianPatsfan]

This is such an important point. We forget that players are human, and that the motivation to sign somewhere is not always ENTIRELY about money and championships (though the money is a significant component, obviously). People keep family, location, and happiness in mind (in addition to the money and championships). I'm sure players also assess team culture, management, and unity, the so-called intangibles of any job.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread with frustration how Seattle could keep Wilson, Chancellor, Bennett, Sherman, etc, and still have room to sign more. I thought that was a very interesting sentiment. I moved out to Seattle not too long ago and really love it here (I loved it in New England too). I have met a ton of people here in Seattle who have no other connection to Seattle besides getting a job here and relocating recently, and now they can't see themselves anywhere else. City is great, people are generally friendly, schools are good, and the weather is (shockingly) mild all around. Suburbs are nice for families. The Seahawks players are so integral into the culture of the city as a whole as well. They all seem thrilled and happy to be here, playing for a happy, jacked and pumped, cheer-leading coach. And yes, winning also helps. I can totally imagine most players who get offered generally fair to above average money for the top of their position will stay and those who want the big pay day leave.

New England's big draw is WINNING. Belichick himself says it can be difficult for players to play for him, and it's not for everybody. I'm sure there are skill players on other teams who are fantastic, at the top of their position, and may not excel in New England. If you're from the south, winters can be tough, and the culture can be a bit shocking. During my medical training in Boston, almost all of my colleagues were thrilled to be in such a great city, with such great hospitals. But the ones who were not happy (and still are extremely talented physicians) were almost universally from the South or California.

Elandon Roberts may end up as a better fit for the Patriots. Collins will likely continue to succeed. From Collin's perspective, I can totally imagine this: "I'm far from family, I don't really like living up here. I'll stay if I get Von Miller money, but otherwise, I think I might want to try some place else..."

This is why I think Atlanta would've been a great trade market for him. Contenders this year, and Dan Quinn is desperate for a Collins type LB in his system. But aye, too late now.

 

[PatsFan92]

There was that thread from weeks 3-4 complaining about the defense, but the overall stats, especially points allowed, were fine. Even the Bills shutout was no big deal since the defense held them to 16. No one was saying the 2016 Pats were the second coming of the 2000 Ravens, the 1985 Bears, or the 2002 Buccaneers, but they were pretty good. We'll see how this trafe changes the performance of the defense.

I look forward to learning a little more about this Collins move. I'm guessing it has to do with how he fit in with the rest of the players, the coaches, and how disciplined he was in knowing his assignments. We've seen lesser players come and go, but this was a big one.

I'd also include the 2015 Broncos in that list. That defense was even greater considering how the rules are favouring the offenses now. I also think that defense in the AFCCG was the toughest TB12 has ever faced. I was surprised he was even able to stand after that game considering the amount of hits he took.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Obviously a disciplinary move. In case you hadn't noticed, BB has a temper. He has done this type of thing before. Can't think of the closest parallel, but does seem familiar.

When has BB ever dumped a player due to outright rage?

 

[PatriotSpy]

There's nothing wrong with letting Collins walk and getting a 4th rounder at the end of the year. I mean, there's too many variables and unknowns to put much stock in a 3rd round draft pick. #1, it's not going to help you now. #2 it could turn out to be a bust i.e. a chad jackson or aaron dobson or Jake Bequette.

Basically that 1 rd edge you get by trading Collins doesn't outweigh the known variable you get with Collins playing this season out and creating depth at the linebacker position on a team that is contending for the superbowl.

This is absolutely absurd.

 

[PF_SU]

I'd also include the 2015 Broncos in that list. That defense was even greater considering that the rules favour the offenses now. I also think that defense in the AFCCG was the toughest TB12 has ever faced.

The 2002 Buccaneers outdefended the league average by a bigger margin than the 2015 Broncos. Relative to league average:

Passer Rating:
2002 Bucs (-30.2)
2015 Broncos (-9.6)

Net Yards per Attempt:
2002 Bucs (-1.38)
2015 Broncos (-1.31)

Passing Yards per game:
2002 Bucs (-56.6)
2015 Broncos (-44.2)

Completion percentage:
2002 Bucs (-8.8%)
2015 Broncos (-3%)

Rushing Yards per game:
2002 Bucs (-19)
2015 Broncos (-25.2)

Yards per carry:
2002 Bucs (-0.4)
2015 Broncos (-0.8)

Points per drive:
2002 Bucs (-0.81)
2015 Broncos (-0.46)

Yards per drive:
2002 Bucs (-7.4)
2015 Broncos (-7.7)

Turnover percentage
2002 Bucs (+3.9%)
2015 Broncos (+0.2%)

 

[PatriotSpy]

Also, this is one reason why I don't want Jimmy G to be traded for picks. We get a 1rst rounder for him and there's a good chance he's going to be traded in a couple years and you get nothing in return.

Keep Jimmy as an insurance qb and let him walk when the time comes.

 

[patchick]

OK, after a thousand responses I'm doubtless on well-trodden ground here, but this is how the tea leaves seem to me to be arranging themselves:

- Before the season started, the Patriots tried to negotiate a substantial extension with Collins. His camp said "no no, we want ALL the monies." Negotiations ended and Collins entered the season assuming it would be his last in New England.

- Once the games started, he developed a bad case of "next-contract brain." It was always in the back of his mind, and it affected his focus as a team player. Common symptoms of the syndrome: freelancing to make splashier plays, playing less aggressively to protect against injury, feeling unwanted and generally not buying into the team ethic in a way that sets a bad example to new young players.

- As Collins' impact on the field declined and his presence in the locker room became increasingly negative, Elandon Roberts was moving in precisely opposite directions. The future projected to be more snaps for Roberts and fewer for Collins...which would only exacerbate the problems with Collins, who wanted to showcase himself for potential suitors.

- BB & co. started to contemplate what so recently seemed unthinkable, that it might be better to cut ties now. The trick is, the usual buyers for trade-deadline rent-a-stars are top playoff contenders. Nobody relishes the idea of Jamie Collins with a fresh new grudge against all things Patriots suiting up for the Steelers in the playoffs. So they take what they can get from lowly Cleveland.

Sound about right?

 

[mrscruff]

Article highlighting possible reasons for a trade:

Thoughts on Patriots Trade of Jamie Collins - Over the Cap

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

No guarantee that we'd be getting any comp picks for any player leaving. It would be dependent upon our own free agent acquisitions, as well.

With all of that money in available space next spring, it's certainly possible that a bigger named free agent could be brought in, and/or that the number of players acquired may be greater than the losses.

Likely? Probably not, but it's something to consider.

I understand what you're saying, the only thing is, who out there, thats going to be a free agent in 17, would possibly be a bigger signing then Collins. Levon bell? Maybe, but no, bill would never.

I just don't see it.

 

[supafly]

I understand what you're saying, the only thing is, who out there, thats going to be a free agent in 17, would possibly be a bigger signing then Collins. Levon bell? Maybe, but no, bill would never.

I just don't see it.

The formula involves the number of players who leave vs. the number who are brought in, as well as the amount of the contracts on both sides.

If we have 6 guys leave and bring in 7 new ones (even mid tier signings), it's no sure thing that we'd be compensated with extra picks. It's far from certain that any comp picks would definitely include a 3rd rounder like CLE gave.

Also, the thought that Jamie Collins would be the premiere free agent across the league aside from Le'Veon Bell is quite a stretch in my opinion. Isn't this the player that so many were outraged about when he didn't even crack the top 100 on NFL Network this summer?

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I'm pissed that BB waited to trade him until after the Browns had played the Jets.

But Collins gets to play the Bills a third time...

 

[letekro]

Article highlighting possible reasons for a trade:

Thoughts on Patriots Trade of Jamie Collins - Over the Cap

Excellent article and nice comments at the end how the QB is important but not the be-all and end-all that the Brady fanboyz would imagine. Brady is arguably the greatest QB in history but his talent would be wasted if it weren't for the value that is consistently embedded in the rest of the roster.

 

[RayClay]

Don't know if it's been posted, but Chatham and "force rules" catches Jamie messing up.

 

[captain insano]

And dismayed.

im starting to feel better about it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Excellent article and nice comments at the end how the QB is important but not the be-all and end-all that the Brady fanboyz would imagine. Brady is arguably the greatest QB in history but his talent would be wasted if it weren't for the value that is consistently embedded in the rest of the roster.

Kindly name one sane person who thinks Brady, or any QB, can win a title all alone.

 

[ViperGTS]

Don't know if it's been posted, but Chatham and "force rules" catches Jamie messing up.

He had one, repeat one good game against Houston this season. Be it the hip or whatnot, I saw over pursuit, picking bad rush lanes etc. I think @patchick was correct in the idea of him overplaying in want of a bigger contact.

Completely against the Do Your Job mantra. The team may be better off for it, especially if Roberts turns into a newer version of Tedy B.

 

[Free_Pacman]

I don't really understand all the shock about how bad the compensation was. When people assess these trades, they never factor in how long the player will be under a team-friendly contact. 8 games of cheap Jamie Collins isn't worth much.

It's the same reason why people need to temper their expectations about what the return for Garoppolo will be. Don't be surprised if the best we can get a second.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

No offense but Canton would not be my first choice if I signed a $80m deal. Neither would be my current town which I love

Having grown up in Canton (after Milton), for a Patriots player, it's close to work and there are some very nice isolated ( read private) areas...
There were a few who lived near us in the 70s and 80s, the late Bill Lenkaitis (?sp) was two houses down.....

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Kindly name one sane person who thinks Brady, or any QB, can win a title all alone.

With that many posts on this board and you still asked that question? Oh wait....you put in a sanity qualifier.....never mind.

 

[PlanB]

can Cleveland now trade Collins to a contender? Be kind, I really don't know the answer.