Mike Lombardi on the Jamie Collins trade..

[mosi]

Not sure if someone posted this already:

Oh god, why does this post fill me with dread! What is next, Bennett to the Jags for a 6th round pick?

 

[JMC00]

I must admit that the only thing I was feeling unsettled about yesterday was the fact that the Bills, with all their injuries, managed to score 25 points on us.

Pats gave up 17. Last 8 points were an absolute gift from the ref. Rowe 100% did not commit pass interference should have been 4th and 12 from the 30.

And tbh it was more like 10. That 4th and 3rd where Taylor ran it in Wood has an absolute blatant face mask that should have made it 4th and 18 from the 41.

 

[RIpats88]

collins clearly hasnt been playing 100% effort this season on the field. perhaps despite his physical talent Bill feels he has been a detriment to the team with his freelancing and not giving 100% and buying in. he has been inconsistent this year.

the question is, will it hurt them in the playoffs.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Having Lombardi defend the Collins trade is akin to having Donna Brazille on CNN defending Hillary.

Minus just the tiny little fact that Belichick is the best coach of all time and Hillary one of the worst candidates of all time...

If BB thought Collin's play was hurting the team and couldn't get him to 'do his job' rather than just freelancing, then it's the right move. BB has more than proven that you need players that play as a team and follow the gameplan and coaching. Talent doesn't mean anything if you are ignoring the coaching. If BB thinks he was hurting the team, then it's a good trade. No one in the media or here on the forum knows better than BB. No one.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Re: the freelancing et al... Is it just me or is this an indictment on the lack of player leadership on D? Who is the leader on that side of the ball? Sometimes you need players policing themselves. Just don't see this happening on the old Seymour-Rodney days.

Great point. Part of the problem in my opinion is that practically anyone who's anyone on that defense has his contract up this season. Remember the lost locker room of 2009? People were asking why Wilfork as a veteran couldn't step up, be a leader, and get everyone in line. Well, from Wilfrok's perspective, he hadn't gotten paid, and he himself might not be here next year, so how can he take on a leadership role?

The same thing might be playing out here. There's Nink, McCourty, and Chung. That's it -- practically everyone else who's on defense will be a free agent next year, or is too wet behind the ears to take on a leadership role (Brown). Letting all these players' contracts expire at once may have been a poor strategy on Belichick's part if it's leading to a lack of leadership on defense.

 

[Mack Herron]

Lombardi not a fan of Collins or the rest of the defense, for that matter:

 

[VrabelJr]

holy **** this is slowly turning into a political thread.

 

[RIpats88]

I think hightower is clearly a leader in that locker-room. and it is becoming clear they will pay him

 

[VrabelJr]

Lombardi not a fan of Collins or the rest of the defense, for that matter:

I agree with most of that but the part about our defense not playing with physicality is crap. Hightower, Chung, McCourty, and Butler were sending Bills players to the sideline left and right.

Lombardi knows some things but he's clearly overusing the correlation of this opportunity and things he's said in the past to get some extra attention.

Yeah, Lombardi used to be with the Pats. But he's in the media now and needs to be be accounted for accordingly.

 

[UFGatorPat]

I think the Collins hate is mostly deserved but High and that secondary showed plenty of emotion. Front 4 was poor along with JC vs the Bills.

 

[The Scrizz]

Re freelancing first line of leadership is MP.

MP shouldn't have to be the first line, that's why I asked about players.

 

[Joey007]

Great point. Part of the problem in my opinion is that practically anyone who's anyone on that defense has his contract up this season. Remember the lost locker room of 2009? People were asking why Wilfork as a veteran couldn't step up, be a leader, and get everyone in line. Well, from Wilfrok's perspective, he hadn't gotten paid, and he himself might not be here next year, so how can he take on a leadership role?

The same thing might be playing out here. There's Nink, McCourty, and Chung. That's it -- practically everyone else who's on defense will be a free agent next year, or is too wet behind the ears to take on a leadership role (Brown). Letting all these players' contracts expire at once may have been a poor strategy on Belichick's part if it's leading to a lack of leadership on defense.

But for some of them, what sense does it make to mail it in this year? Chris Long, for example, is here to win. He took less to be here. I don't feel that he's worried at the moment about next offseason.

Sheard is another guy who should be playing out of his mind right now so that he can get his big payday. Same goes to Butler except Butler's playing at a higher level than Sheard right now.

And as for Hightower, I can't see him as being a guy who will quit on the team. I'm sure he wants his pay, but I do think that, especially now, that BB really loves how he plays, and how he has already proven to be a great leader. He has to have a good feeling that he will be one of the guys that Bill will absolutely want paid.

So who does that now leave on the defense to hurt the leadership? I just don't buy that there's a lack of leadership on this defense. There's plenty. I am a huge, huge Collins fan, but it seems obvious to me that Collins was the one guy in his contract year who was a threat to having guys quit, ala Thomas back in 2009.

 

[patfanken]

It has to be conditional since the Browns haven't been awarded the pick in question yet. What I've been hearing is that it's a compensatory 3rd that becomes a 4th if the Browns don't don't get a comp pick. Forget where I heard that, will dig it up and edit my post in a second.

Does the "forfeit the highest pick" provision apply to the 4th rounder we're losing this year? Because it would suck for the Browns to not get a comp 3rd, then the top pick in the 4th round becomes the one we forfeit. We'd end up with a pick near the end of the 4th for Collins.

Hmmm. This is the first I've heard the term "conditional" and it gives me some hope for more compensation. It COULD mean that the Pats might get a higher draft pick IF Collins eventually re-signs with the Browns. Maybe if he extends or resigns with the Browns we would get the Browns 2nd round pick.

Now THAT would make a lot more sense. Collins is worth the 33rd pick in the draft to Cleveland if he signs a long term deal with them. In fact better than anything they could get with that pick, but still fair value for the Pats. If he is an 8 game rental, then a pick in the late 90's is decent value for both teams.

 

[Jackson 2]

holy **** this is slowly turning into a political thread.

What a shocking development for this f###### place...

 

[wpdougie2180]

Hmmm. This is the first I've heard the term "conditional" and it gives me some hope for more compensation. It COULD mean that the Pats might get a higher draft pick IF Collins eventually re-signs with the Browns. Maybe if he extends or resigns with the Browns we would get the Browns 2nd round pick.

Now THAT would make a lot more sense. Collins is worth the 33rd pick in the draft to Cleveland if he signs a long term deal with them. In fact better than anything they could get with that pick, but still fair value for the Pats. If he is an 8 game rental, then a pick in the late 90's is decent value for both teams.

NFL is reporting it is a conditional.......4th Round Pick in......2018. They potentially would have gotten the same thing (or better) by letting him walk at the end of this season

 

[PF_SU]

NFL is reporting it is a conditional.......4th Round Pick in......2018. They potentially would have gotten the same thing (or better) by letting him walk at the end of this season

It's most likely either the 2017 3rd round compensatory pick (if the Browns get it) and if not the 2018 4th rounder.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

But for some of them, what sense does it make to mail it in this year? Chris Long, for example, is here to win. He took less to be here. I don't feel that he's worried at the moment about next offseason.

Sheard is another guy who should be playing out of his mind right now so that he can get his big payday. Same goes to Butler except Butler's playing at a higher level than Sheard right now.

And as for Hightower, I can't see him as being a guy who will quit on the team. I'm sure he wants his pay, but I do think that, especially now, that BB really loves how he plays, and how he has already proven to be a great leader. He has to have a good feeling that he will be one of the guys that Bill will absolutely want paid.

So who does that now leave on the defense to hurt the leadership? I just don't buy that there's a lack of leadership on this defense. There's plenty. I am a huge, huge Collins fan, but it seems obvious to me that Collins was the one guy in his contract year who was a threat to having guys quit, ala Thomas back in 2009.

Sorry that I wasn't clear. I agree with your point that Collins was the one who was a threat to quitting. I was answering the question of - why isn't the leadership on the defense keeping Collins in line? My answer is that those other guys may not feel empowered to keep Collins in line if they themselves aren't sure about their long term future with the team. They may still do their jobs, but may feel uncomfortable telling someone else to do so for the good of the team.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

I think the Collins hate is mostly deserved but High and that secondary showed plenty of emotion. Front 4 was poor along with JC vs the Bills.

D- line has been one of the most dissapointing aspects of the defense. I don't see anyone that can push the pocket or clog up the middle

 

[wpdougie2180]

It's most likely either the 2017 3rd round compensatory pick (if the Browns get it) and if not the 2018 4th rounder.

Yeah Alex Mack has to play 80% of the snaps for Atlanta for Cleveland to get that 3rd rounder. Right now he is at 100%

 

[Joey007]

Sorry that I wasn't clear. I agree with your point that Collins was the one who was a threat to quitting. I was answering the question of - why isn't the leadership on the defense keeping Collins in line? My answer is that those other guys may not feel empowered to keep Collins in line if they themselves aren't sure about their long term future with the team. They may still do their jobs, but may feel uncomfortable telling someone else to do so for the good of the team.

Which is what happened in 2009. Thanks for clearing that up, that I do agree on.