For the 2016 Pats to be in/win SB 51 the D has to improve ALOT

[Ring 6]

Its the bigger picture. Based on what I have seen this year, I am concerned that a team with a very good defense and a nickel and dime you offense can come in here and beat us if the 3rd down defense does not get better. Ive seen this story before, We all have. If were scoring 35 a gsme in the playoffs great, but I do not expect that because its outside the norm

What bigger picture? We have had this philosophy forever, and have been more successful than virtually any franchise ever in this run.
I would be a lot more concerned if we had a defense that let the other team score more points, than one that has a number I don't like in 3rd down conversions.
They allow 5.7 3rd down conversions a game. Lets say they improve by 1 to 4.7. Now they are ranked high in that stat, but if to do so means you must play riskier defense and allow more points a game, what is the sense in that?

 

[patfanken]

What bigger picture? We have had this philosophy forever, and have been more successful than virtually any franchise ever in this run.
I would be a lot more concerned if we had a defense that let the other team score more points, than one that has a number I don't like in 3rd down conversions.
They allow 5.7 3rd down conversions a game. Lets say they improve by 1 to 4.7. Now they are ranked high in that stat, but if to do so means you must play riskier defense and allow more points a game, what is the sense in that?

Amen

 

[Ring 6]

Its the bigger picture. Based on what I have seen this year, I am concerned that a team with a very good defense and a nickel and dime you offense can come in here and beat us if the 3rd down defense does not get better. Ive seen this story before, We all have. If were scoring 35 a gsme in the playoffs great, but I do not expect that because its outside the norm

By the way, nickel and dime you offense, almost never beat the Patriots. The whole concept of the defense is to make you convert 3rd downs all the way down the field because you cant do it, and the way to beat this team is to make big plays. Historically, we lose to big plays, and quick score drives that rarely see a 3rd down.

 

[TennisBallHead]

13, 34, 14, 14, 21, 17, 13, 16, 18

Those are the offensive scores in their nine playoff losses since 2001. Seven times they scored in the teens. The Jets loss was the softest 21 you can imagine. Same with the 2013 Denver loss where the Patriots were losing 23-3 before garbage time. The offense has routinely faltered since they became a high flying passing attack. But they did bail out the defense in 2014 with a ridiculous 36 PPG and FIFTEEN offensive touchdowns.

However, the defense played very poorly in those losses as well. The only games I give them a pass for are Denver in 2005 and 2015. It's especially bad when you look at the opposing QB in most of those games. Mark Sanchez, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning?

Basically, for the most part, there is plenty of blame to go around for the offense AND defense in these losses.

 

[fightingirish595]

13, 34, 14, 14, 21, 17, 13, 16, 18

Those are the offensive scores in their nine playoff losses since 2001. Seven times they scored in the teens. The Jets loss was the softest 21 you can imagine. Same with the 2013 Denver loss where the Patriots were losing 23-3 before garbage time. The offense has routinely faltered since they became a high flying passing attack. But they did bail out the defense in 2014 with a ridiculous 36 PPG and FIFTEEN offensive touchdowns.

However, the defense played very poorly in those losses as well. The only games I give them a pass for are Denver in 2005 and 2015. It's especially bad when you look at the opposing QB in most of those games. Mark Sanchez, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning?

Basically, for the most part, there is plenty of blame to go around for the offense AND defense in these losses.

Completely agree. But The defense struggled to get off the field in almost every playoff loss and lost Time of possession in nearly all of those games.

 

[Ring 6]

13, 34, 14, 14, 21, 17, 13, 16, 18

Those are the offensive scores in their nine playoff losses since 2001. Seven times they scored in the teens. The Jets loss was the softest 21 you can imagine. Same with the 2013 Denver loss where the Patriots were losing 23-3 before garbage time. The offense has routinely faltered since they became a high flying passing attack. But they did bail out the defense in 2014 with a ridiculous 36 PPG and FIFTEEN offensive touchdowns.

However, the defense played very poorly in those losses as well. The only games I give them a pass for are Denver in 2005 and 2015. It's especially bad when you look at the opposing QB in most of those games. Mark Sanchez, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning?

Basically, for the most part, there is plenty of blame to go around for the offense AND defense in these losses.

Yet there are 22 wins mixed in there.
I don't know about you, but I am happy that there are only 9 games out of 31 in the postseason games to pick apart and find blame for.

 

[Ring 6]

Completely agree. But The defense struggled to get off the field in almost every playoff loss and lost Time of possession in nearly all of those games.

So all of the other teams that lose more playoffs games didn't struggle to get off the field and won games when the offenses put up those numbers?

 

[mosslost]

It has been consistently difficult for other teams to keep the Pats from getting to 24, 28 or 30 or more, for quite a while. And this trend has gone on for years. Exceptions prove the rule (18 in last years AFCCG). So, their Defense is playing very well in relation to our offenses production.

 

[fightingirish595]

So all of the other teams that lose more playoffs games didn't struggle to get off the field and won games when the offenses put up those numbers?

When your facing the best teams during that time of year, And you can not get stops on 3rd down, but the other team can, Thats a recipe for disaster. Thats why we do not have more rings. Because its really hard to beat 3 or 4 good teams in a row. Credit also has to be given to the victors however

 

[TennisBallHead]

Yet there are 22 wins mixed in there.
I don't know about you, but I am happy that there are only 9 games out of 31 in the postseason games to pick apart and find blame for.

So am I. But it feels like the offense gets more of a pass for the losses than the defense does, when both have done poorly.

 

[Ring 6]

When your facing the best teams during that time of year, And you can not get stops on 3rd down, but the other team can, Thats a recipe for disaster. Thats why we do not have more rings. Because its really hard to beat 3 or 4 good teams in a row. Credit also has to be given to the victors however

How is a 22-9 playoff record disaster?
You seem to want to pick out one little fact and pretend that we would have walked to 15 straight SBs in a row, if they just would have let up one fewer 3rd down conversion a game, and the franchise has failed.
Its ludicrous.

 

[fightingirish595]

How is a 22-9 playoff record disaster?
You seem to want to pick out one little fact and pretend that we would have walked to 15 straight SBs in a row, if they just would have let up one fewer 3rd down conversion a game, and the franchise has failed.
Its ludicrous.

Yes because I said 22-9 was a disaster. Im done with you

 

[Ring 6]

So am I. But it feels like the offense gets more of a pass for the losses than the defense does, when both have done poorly.

There are 32 teams in the league and the Patriots have won 4 of the last 15 SBs.
They have 22 playoff wins and 4 titles in that run, no one else has more that 13 and 2.
Yes, they lost 9 games, and they lost those 9 games because they weren't good enough, really on both sides of the ball. I don't understand the whining going on here.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes because I said 22-9 was a disaster. Im done with you

You said the Patriots defensive philosophy is "a recipe for disaster". You cited games going back 7 seasons.
I'm sorry that you regret the words you used, but if that's how you post, you probably should be done. Or at least think a little more while you type.

 

[deters]

We made it to SB46 with a bad defense and this years is far better than that one.

 

[fightingirish595]

We made it to SB46 with a bad defense and this years is far better than that one.

And we lost laregly in part because even though we gave up only 21 points, We couldnt get a stop when it mattered. We dont know yet whether this defense can. Its far too early to tell

 

[fightingirish595]

You said the Patriots defensive philosophy is "a recipe for disaster". You cited games going back 7 seasons.
I'm sorry that you regret the words you used, but if that's how you post, you probably should be done. Or at least think a little more while you type.

I did not say that. I said bad 3rd down defense and not being able to convert 3rd downs is a recipe for disaster. You Keep putting words in my mouth man. Its sad. The Nfl has changed so much over the past 50 years but one thing has remained the same, Defense wins championships. There have been years where the offense and defense hasnt been good enough in the same game because the opponets in the playoffs are better.

Edit: I think our PPG average is great and im thrilled with it, But Im not sure thats going to hold up against better teams

 

[goheels22002]

This is an odd thread. The Patriots have the best record in the AFC and the 2nd best ppg allowed, 3rd in the AFC in avg yards per carry allowed, tied for 7th in avg yards per pass attempt. They're doing great.

Roethlisberger and Antonio Brown et al would be a good test as they get near the halfway mark. It's too bad Big Ben's not playing.

But seriously, who's left on the schedule that makes you nervous? The Seahawks at Gillette with Russell Wilson have a shot at keeping up. Maybe the Bills at Ralph Wilson if McCoy is healthy. The Broncos offense sucks. This defense is fine.

The playoffs will be whatever the matchups are. Right now, the Patriots have the most explosive offense in the league and a top five defense.

 

[mosslost]

There are 32 teams in the league and the Patriots have won 4 of the last 15 SBs.
They have 22 playoff wins and 4 titles in that run, no one else has more that 13 and 2.
Yes, they lost 9 games, and they lost those 9 games because they weren't good enough, really on both sides of the ball. I don't understand the whining going on here.

Exactly. They are 22-9 in the playoffs with 6 SB appearances. The Playoffs are only the best teams with winning records in the league. That is a pretty impressive record.

 

[TennisBallHead]

There are 32 teams in the league and the Patriots have won 4 of the last 15 SBs.
They have 22 playoff wins and 4 titles in that run, no one else has more that 13 and 2.
Yes, they lost 9 games, and they lost those 9 games because they weren't good enough, really on both sides of the ball. I don't understand the whining going on here.

No one's whining. I'm replying to the original poster that said that he doesn't want the offense to have to bail out the defense again. I'm pointing out that the offense hasn't exactly lit it up in the postseason other than 2014.

I'm well aware that they've lapped the entire NFL in the past 16 years.