Pats Should Keep Garoppolo Through 2017

[Brady6]

Wow, the more I read these posts, the more concerned I become with the impact of technology is having on people's ability to decipher reality.

First I want to explain something to everybody. There has never been a HOF level QB who had played for one team his entire career which was cut or traded when still playing at a high level. The Montana argument is stupid; he had missed all but one game in the two seasons before his trade to Kansas City. The Farve argument equality as a dumb given that he willingly retired and only played elsewhere because he opted to come out of retirement after the Packers had moved on to their next phase.

The Super Bowl of stupidity is the argument that because Belichick has moved on from an excellent DL or CB in the past, the Patriots are going to dump arguably the best QB ever to play the game. The Patriots care about their legacy, and they are not going to let the face of their franchise for a decade and a half put on another uniform.

Here is a question for everyone? How do you think the 49ers are feeling about trading Alex Smith right now?

Here is another question for everyone? How do you think Elway feels about opting not to match the Texans offer for Brock?

You are looking at six quarters in a vacuum and deciding that Garoppolo is the next big thing. However, the team that has watched him in practice every day for three years extended Tom Brady and drafted Jacoby Brissett during this offseason. Do you think Belichick is so dumb that until Garoppolo played a game and this board decided he was a future HOF'er he had no idea what type of QB he had in Garoppolo?

For the sake of this next piece, I will pretend Garoppolo is the next Young, Rodgers, etc.

What if Garoppolo wants to return to Chicago and build his legacy without having to live in the shadow of Tom Brady and have everything he does compare to Tom for the next decade?

What if he wants to prove he can make a team into a winner not just take over a team that is a proven winner?

What if Garoppolo does not like the fact the Patriots tried to rush him back from injury and demands to be traded this offseason?

What if Garoppolo wants to be paid like Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck?

Wait here is one for you - what if Garoppolo does not want to play for a team that tosses a QB who won four SBs for them in the trash because of his backup playing six really good quarters of football.

But we are just supposed to ignore all of these things... right?

 

[dafoe2016]

Stating that JAG didn't **** himself after five quarters is an outrageous misrepresentation of his play. Did you even watch the games? He was incredible. I trust that Bill can evaluate his skill level a bit better than you. Yours is the sort of thinking that had the Celtics hold on to the Big Three until they were dead and buried and forced us into two decades of ineptitude.

Luckily for us, Bill's definition of long term is more than 20 months. Maybe you don't remember what it was like to be the Bills or the Dolphins, but I do. I don't want to go back there.

 

[oldrover]

Tom Brady has been the Patriots starter for 14 seasons. During that stretch, the Patriots have been to the AFCCG 10 times, and to the Super Bowl 6 times, and they've won the SB 4 times.

But I'm sure that any "average", "good", or "very good" QB could do that. It probably happens all the time. Really, BB should just trade Tom today. After all, JAG didn't **** himself for a whole five quarters...

Wait... is that...



...okay, thanks.

 

[Deus Irae]

Stating that JAG didn't **** himself after five quarters is an outrageous misrepresentation of his play.

Are you saying that JAG did, in fact, **** himself during those 5 quarters of play?

 

[Deus Irae]

Wait... is that...



...okay, thanks.

Really, what the Patriots should do is trade Brady AND JAG, and grab Nick Foles from K.C.. After all, the Chiefs are keeping the future GOAT QB on the bench, even after his 2013 season.

That wasn't just 5 quarters, after all...

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Really, what the Patriots should do is trade Brady AND JAG, and grab Nick Foles from K.C.. After all, the Chiefs are keeping the future GOAT QB on the bench, even after his 2013 season.

That wasn't just 5 quarters, after all...

lol, maybe it isn't as absurd as it seems. Not to compare apples to oranges, but Brady wasn't exactly a world-beater when he first played in 01. But he still showed enough potential to make Belichick and Kraft part ways for someone widely considered to be the face of the franchise.

Not saying Jimmy is an up-and-coming GOAT, but it wouldn't be the first time this franchise decided to trade or part-ways with an established, respected quarterback.

 

[XLIX]

Yea imagine if the Packers would of kept Favre and traded Rogers due to history with the team (16 Seasons/Fan loyalty) then 2-3yrs later he retires and imagine where the Packers would be at meanwhile Rogers is lighting it up on another team and no i'm not comparing JG to Rogers.

Actually yeah, that's exactly what you're doing.

 

[XLIX]

The Garoppolo people are pretty funny with all their assumptions. As we have seen in this thread, in order to support their point they have to:

1) Compare Garoppolo to Aaron Rodgers
2) Assume Garoppolo will give 10 years - 10 years! - of solid quarterbacking
3) Assume Brady hitting a wall is imminent, despite the fact there is zero evidence whatsoever to support this
4) Believe Garoppolo will have to choose between staying with a great franchise in New England or going to an atrocious franchise in Cleveland. Because there's not, like, 30 other NFL teams.
5) Believe both Brady and Garoppolo will each be 100% on board with whatever the Patriots want to do. They will each be willing to sacrifice millions of dollars as well as significant amounts of playing time in order to give NE anything and everything.

 

[XLIX]

lol, maybe it isn't as absurd as it seems. Not to compare apples to oranges, but Brady wasn't exactly a world-beater when he first played in 01.

He took over a team that was 5-13 in the previous 18 games, and went 14-3 the rest of that season. One of those wins was at a little gathering I like to call SUper Bowl 36.

If that ain't a "world beater" then there's no such thing.

Not saying Jimmy is an up-and-coming GOAT, but it wouldn't be the first time this franchise decided to trade or part-ways with an established, respected quarterback.

Comparing parting ways with Bledsoe to parting ways with Brady is ridiculous.

 

[Brady6]

lol, maybe it isn't as absurd as it seems. Not to compare apples to oranges, but Brady wasn't exactly a world-beater when he first played in 01. But he still showed enough potential to make Belichick and Kraft part ways for someone widely considered to be the face of the franchise.

Not saying Jimmy is an up-and-coming GOAT, but it wouldn't be the first time this franchise decided to trade or part-ways with an established, respected quarterback.

Have you ever actually taken a look back at Bledsoe's performance as our QB? He had a completion percentage of 56% and a QB rating of 76 during his time here. He threw 136 interceptions in 123 games. Add 58 fumbles as well. His record was 63-60.

Drew Bledsoe Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Brady 172-51 record and only 150 interceptions in his entire career.

 

[carmelo15]

Man I hope the Browns don't like kiezer that much (I don't and on the forums they dont). They have boat load of picks and need help on defense with Garret looking like a generational defensive player.
They can offer us Eagles 2017 1st, Titans 2017 2nd, Eagles 2018 2nd.
Develop Brissett for 2-3 years and we are good. I think Brissett can be a top 10-15 qb with an elite defense be a super bowl contender.

 

[Miguel]

Why I do think that the Pats already made their choice between Brady and Garoppolo.

They extended Brady earlier this year.

Why do so if not to solidify their long-term commitment to him?

If it was to lower Brady's possible lost salary, they could have redone his deal this way.

Lower salary to 1 million. Pay him a large roster bonus that was due in April.

Before his extension this year Brady's 2017 cap number was going to be 16 million (10 million salary and 6 million signing bonus proration) so trading him would have created 10m in cap space while lowering his 2017 cap hit to $6 million.

After his extension this year Brady's 2017 cap number is now 14 million (1 million salary and 13 million signing bonus proration). Trading him before 6/2/2017 will NOT create cap space but lose 13 million in cap space because it increases his cap hit from 14 million to $27 million.

The Pats extended Brady earlier this year knowing the above two paragraphs. They also knew that they by extending Brady they would have $14 million in dead money if they traded him in the spring of 2018. They could have Brady leave the Patriots in 2018 with no dead money if they had not touched his deal earlier this year.

I look forward to hearing some answers to my question - why did the Patriots extend Brady if not to solidify their long-term commitment to him?

 

[Mack Herron]

Why I do think that the Pats already made their choice between Brady and Garoppolo.

They extended Brady earlier this year.

Why do so if not to solidify their long-term commitment to him?

If it was to lower Brady's possible lost salary, they could have redone his deal this way.

Lower salary to 1 million. Pay him a large roster bonus that was due in April.

Before his extension this year Brady's 2017 cap number was going to be 16 million (10 million salary and 6 million signing bonus proration) so trading him would have created 10m in cap space while lowering his 2017 cap hit to $6 million.

After his extension this year Brady's 2017 cap number is now 14 million (1 million salary and 13 million signing bonus proration). Trading him before 6/2/2017 will NOT create cap space but lose 13 million in cap space because it increases his cap hit from 14 million to $27 million.

The Pats extended Brady earlier this year knowing the above two paragraphs. They also knew that they by extending Brady they would have $14 million in dead money if they traded him in the spring of 2018. They could have Brady leave the Patriots in 2018 with no dead money if they had not touched his deal earlier this year.

I look forward to hearing some answers to my question - why did the Patriots extend Brady if not to solidify their long-term commitment to him?

Accepting the commitment to Brady, does that rule -out extending JAG?

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Have you ever actually taken a look back at Bledsbecame oe's performance as our QB? He had a completion percentage of 56% and a QB rating of 76 during his time here. He threw 136 interceptions in 123 games. Add 58 fumbles as well. His record was 63-60.

Drew Bledsoe Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Brady 172-51 record and only 150 interceptions in his entire career.

Hindsight is 20/20. Brady turned out to the right choice, but there's no way anyone that year could've predicted he would turn into an all-time great quarterback. His early stats were more consistent with being a game-manager (perhaps a very exceptional one!) and he didn't start leading the league in passing yards and touchdowns until around 2006...before going lights out in 2007 w/ Randy Moss!

He took over a team that was 5-13 in the previous 18 games, and went 14-3 the rest of that season. One of those wins was at a little gathering I like to call SUper Bowl 36.

If that ain't a "world beater" then there's no such thing.

Comparing parting ways with Bledsoe to parting ways with Brady is ridiculous.

I don't see how it's controversial to say Brady wasn't a world beater in 2001...the kind of offense he ran was very different than the one today. He was not asked to do nearly as much. Those early Patriot teams relied a lot on the running game and emphasized ball security and ball control. And the defense was what allowed those teams to compete with the best in the NFL (e.g. Greatest Show on Turf, Peyton Manning and those Colts teams of the early 2000s).

I'm not trying to downplay Brady's role on those teams. He led a lot of amazing game-winning drives and had many big moments in big games. But he wasn't someone expected to be an elite passer, and truthfully, he didn't need to be.

 

[Deus Irae]

lol, maybe it isn't as absurd as it seems. Not to compare apples to oranges, but Brady wasn't exactly a world-beater when he first played in 01. But he still showed enough potential to make Belichick and Kraft part ways for someone widely considered to be the face of the franchise.

Not saying Jimmy is an up-and-coming GOAT, but it wouldn't be the first time this franchise decided to trade or part-ways with an established, respected quarterback.

Brady took a team that had gone 5-13 under BB, and took it on an 11-3 run to the playoffs, before guiding it to a SB win.

JAG took a team that's coming off an AFCCG appearance, and won 1 game before going on the shelf.

Look, if they think JAG is the next franchise QB, they'll keep him, if they can. Beyond that, it's absurd to talk in certainties about the Patriots QB position in 2017, and pure insanity to talk about what happens beyond that.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Brady took a team that had gone 5-13 under BB, and took it on an 11-3 run to the playoffs, before guiding it to a SB win.

JAG took a team that's coming off an AFCCG appearance, and won 1 game before going on the shelf.

Look, if they think JAG is the next franchise QB, they'll keep him, if they can. Beyond that, it's absurd to talk in certainties about the Patriots QB position in 2017, and pure insanity to talk about what happens beyond that.

Yeah, it's a longshot Jimmy is kept long-term. But I'm not saying we should give Garoppolo the reins. I've just seen enough to know that he's worth keeping for another year. I don't think the team should be in a hurry to trade him.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah, it's a longshot Jimmy is kept long-term. But I'm not saying we should give Garoppolo the reins. I've just seen enough to know that he's worth keeping for another year. I don't think the team should be in a hurry to trade him.

Just my 2 cents

If McDaniels moves on this offseason, we could (possibility, not certainty) have the answer to this by February, because he could take Brady or JAG with him (hopefully to an NFC team). That's probably the optimal result, assuming BB has decided to stick around for another 5-10 years.

 

[Deus Irae]

Here's the list of all the QBs who've won multiple Super Bowls with the same team:

Brady
Bradshaw
Roethlisberger
Starr
Staubach
Griese
Plunkett
Montana
Aikman
Elway
Eli Manning

Now, I grant that some of those guys are still playing (Roethlisberger, Brady, Manning). However, the evidence of past QBs is pretty clear:

No matter how good the replacement is, you don't get another full run of greatness. Steve Young is a top 10 All-time QB yet, while he followed Montana's greatness with 8 double digit win regular seasons, he only added one more SB appearance and one Lombardi to the case. That's nothing to sneeze at, and I'm not trying to bag on Young in any way, but it's not the Montana years. And that's, far and away, the best you're going to find on the list.

Maybe New England will be the exception. Maybe it won't. But BB had better be damned certain about JAG, or about a real decline in Brady, if he chooses the puppy over the GOAT.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Here's the list of all the QBs who've won multiple Super Bowls with the same team:

Brady
Bradshaw
Roethlisberger
Starr
Staubach
Griese
Plunkett
Montana
Aikman
Elway
Eli Manning

Now, I grant that some of those guys are still playing (Roethlisberger, Brady, Manning). However, the evidence of past QBs is pretty clear:

No matter how good the replacement is, you don't get another full run of greatness. Steve Young is a top 10 All-time QB yet, while he followed Montana's greatness with 8 double digit win regular seasons, he only added one more SB appearance and one Lombardi to the case. That's nothing to sneeze at, and I'm not trying to bag on Young in any way, but it's not the Montana years. And that's, far and away, the best you're going to find on the list.

Young and the Niners had to get through Dallas in order to get to the Super Bowl, and when they finally did, they easily dismantled the team from the opposing conference, back when the AFC was notoriously weak.

Fortunately, the Patriots aren't facing any emerging powerhouse in the AFC any time soon, and neither Jimmy nor Brady is gonna be traded to an AFC team... I hope lol

 

[Deus Irae]

Young and the Niners had to get through Dallas in order to get to the Super Bowl, and when they finally did, they easily dismantled the team from the opposing conference, back when the AFC was notoriously weak.

Fortunately, the Patriots aren't facing any emerging powerhouse in the AFC any time soon, and neither Jimmy nor Brady is gonna be traded to an AFC team... I hope lol

Now you're down to trying to massage the closest thing to an exception, which involved a top 10 all-time QB replacing a top 10 all-time QB. Not that there's anything wrong with you trying to do that, but it really does serve to highlight the long odds here.