Jeff Howe blows one completely - (Edit: Not Really)

[Sicilian]

an overly simplistic view

he didn't sit on his butt

for every 1 hour of game time, there are 30-50 hours of practice and preparation.....it would depend on what the suitor saw

Perhaps, but consider this: Matt Cassel only fetched a 2nd round pick (a high one at that, but still), and he had proven that he could lead a team to an 11-5 record. Garropolo hasn't shown anything close to that, so the thought of getting a first for him is far-fetched.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It would be legal but Miguel tweeted that it wouldn't be doable do to the rookie pool. Here was his response when asked about the chances of it :

CapSpace=$13,638,036 ?@patscap Feb 27
None. Player would not then fit in the Patriots rookie pool

This was the question :

H.Riv?@1standGoal12 Feb 27
@patscap any likelihood the Pats trade late round picks to a team, with the agreement being they draft a certain player for NE in the 1st rd

Strictly speaking, I think a team could do it, but they'd piss off the NFLPA something fierce. It would require that the team screw several players over, because they'd have to draft them (to get the room to sign the first-rounder) with the intention to never actually sign them to a contract.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Perhaps, but consider this: Matt Cassel only fetched a 2nd round pick (a high one at that, but still), and he had proven that he could lead a team to an 11-5 record. Garropolo hasn't shown anything close to that, so the thought of getting a first for him is far-fetched.

Not apples to oranges, because teams had to pay Cassel at least $14.6M.

Then again, back in the 2013 offseason I remember being utterly confused when people were arguing that having two years left on Mallett's contract (if they had traded him then) was a bad thing.

 

[RobertWeathers]

goes without saying....but if you consider

DE is easier to replace and we already have sheard to step right in.......drafting a DE in the 2nd and having jones' cap space provides better value even if we only get a 3rd rounder for him

I think your response is very logical. If you have good value/high-upside player taken in the 2nd round and $10m in cap space that you would not have otherwise that you can use on 2 players that you have lost it makes all the sense in the world.

However if you believe that Jones is a major difference-maker on this defense and will be a 10+ sack, 30 hurry forced fumble guy for the next 3-4 years then paying him that money wouldn't be a dumb move either. Especially if you have the picks to back-fill the positions that you have had otherwise.

I personally don't think Jones is worth that price now but if he plays a notch below Von Miller he is.

I like Jones, but if he's not going to get top dollar from the pats, then he is gone after next year then moving him now and realizing the return sooner than getting a comp pick in 2018

Yepper.

 

[IllegalContact]

Perhaps, but consider this: Matt Cassel only fetched a 2nd round pick (a high one at that, but still), and he had proven that he could lead a team to an 11-5 record. Garropolo hasn't shown anything close to that, so the thought of getting a first for him is far-fetched.

Cassel fetched a 2nd rounder even though the chiefs had to sign him to a pretty big deal

I didn't say get a first rounder.....I'd rather trade jones anyway.......it was about the idea of someone sitting behind brady means he is not worth anything........2 years of NFL coaching makes him more ready for a team like Houston or some other team that's a decent QB away from contending places a higher value ..... that said, it still comes down to what the coaching of the suiting team sees.....over the years, the results of pursuing QB has always been spotty but does not stop teams from doing it.

It would say something different if the QB in question was struggling to beat out brian hoyer than say ..... tom brady

 

[SVN]

They wont trade Grappo this yr. Next yr more likely. No point trading him and then finding another QB in 3rd round for the future.

 

[BradyFTW!]

If the Pats can get value for Garoppolo now, they would be wise to do it. Otherwise this will be another Mallett situation where, the closer he gets to FA, the less trade value he'll have. There are enough teams with dumpster fires at QB that someone should be willing to trade for him. At this point, it might even be possible for the Pats to get back the second round pick that they spent on him (which would be a great deal for us, getting two years of cheap backup QB play and then getting your pick back is a win by any measure).

Even if they can't get that, I would still deal him for a 3rd I think, although any less than that and you have to start weighing the value of the pick against the cost of replacing Garoppolo.

 

[manxman2601]

 

[Ring 6]

It'll come down to how a team views Connor Cook and Hackenberg. Houston has Hoyer, the 49ers have Gabbert. If they think Jimmy is an upgrade on either of them (he is), then he's absolutely worth a 2nd plus.

We will have to disagree. A QB with a 'second round grade' does not gain value by sitting inactive for 2 years on someone else's bench. Its just the way it works. 2 years older and 2 years removed from playing football decreases value.

 

[Ring 6]

an overly simplistic view

he didn't sit on his butt

for every 1 hour of game time, there are 30-50 hours of practice and preparation.....it would depend on what the suitor saw

They don't see him prepare or practice.
They know absolutely nothing more about him than when he was drafted, except that he is 2 years older and 2 years removed from playing football.
It is simplistic, because it is simple. You don't become worth more by aging. There is nothing available to anyone to judge improvement over where they felt he was on his draft day.

 

[IllegalContact]

They don't see him prepare or practice.
They know absolutely nothing more about him than when he was drafted, except that he is 2 years older and 2 years removed from playing football.
It is simplistic, because it is simple. You don't become worth more by aging. There is nothing available to anyone to judge improvement over where they felt he was on his draft day.

to the simple person there is nothing obvious and details don't matter

there quite a bit more to see than someone who has not spent a moment in the NFL......unless you have your head shoved somewhere

 

[Ring 6]

to the simple person there is nothing obvious and details don't matter

there quite a bit more to see than someone who has not spent a moment in the NFL......unless you have your head shoved somewhere

Whatever

 

[Ring 6]

Perhaps, but consider this: Matt Cassel only fetched a 2nd round pick (a high one at that, but still), and he had proven that he could lead a team to an 11-5 record. Garropolo hasn't shown anything close to that, so the thought of getting a first for him is far-fetched.

But he is a Patriot so he is better than everyone in the draft because he learned from the Patriots.
It worked for Mallett, remember the 1st we got for him? It worked for Hoyer, remember the 1st we got for him? It worked for Kevin OConnell, Rohan Davey, Matt Gutierrez and Matt Cassell. There is a long history of proof that QBs who sit on the bench in NE are just biding their time and developing into HOFers.

 

[Brady6]

Patriots should find out Jimmy Garoppolo's value

Howe speculates about trading Jimmy G for an early first-round pick this year, forgetting that if the Patriots got such a pick, Troy Vincent would immediately take it off their hands.

I'm a big Howe fan for his after-game columns, which take the place of what Reiss used to do. But this one was pretty bad.

They could trade him for a 2017 pick.

 

[Brady6]

But he is a Patriot so he is better than everyone in the draft because he learned from the Patriots.
It worked for Mallett, remember the 1st we got for him? It worked for Hoyer, remember the 1st we got for him? It worked for Kevin OConnell, Rohan Davey, Matt Gutierrez and Matt Cassell. There is a long history of proof that QBs who sit on the bench in NE are just biding their time and developing into HOFers.

Cassell returned the 34th overall pick.

 

[Ring 6]

Cassell returned the 34th overall pick.

Cassell AND Vrabel returned that.
Exactly what did Cassell do after that to warrant that being a Patriot backup makes you improve by osmosis and become a valuable commodity?

Are we going to argue Patriot coordinators are great HCs in waiting based upon Romeo Crennel being hired twice?

 

[Brady6]

Cassell AND Vrabel returned that.
Exactly what did Cassell do after that to warrant that being a Patriot backup makes you improve by osmosis and become a valuable commodity?

Are we going to argue Patriot coordinators are great HCs in waiting based upon Romeo Crennel being hired twice?

I do not think being a Patriots backup makes much of a difference, I think it comes down to the assessment of the player. The others you refer to with the exception of Mallett who is a head case were not highly regarded prospects entering the NFL. Garoppolo was grade well by many, CBS had him as the #32 overall prospect, and went in the second round, he has shown well in preseason, so the question is whether or not Garoppolo has done enough while in the NFL to improve his value from #62 overall to say #37 overall? Personally looking at this draft class for QBs and the next, I would take Garoppolo over any QB other than Wertz and Goff.

 

[IllegalContact]

I do not think being a Patriots backup makes much of a difference, I think it comes down to the assessment of the player. The others you refer to with the exception of Mallett who is a head case were not highly regarded prospects entering the NFL. Garoppolo was grade well by many, CBS had him as the #32 overall prospect, and went in the second round, he has shown well in preseason, so the question is whether or not Garoppolo has done enough while in the NFL to improve his value from #62 overall to say #37 overall? Personally looking at this draft class for QBs and the next, I would take Garoppolo over any QB other than Wertz and Goff.

2 years on a pro roster has value regardless of what schmoe says

 

[farn]

Today, I'm not sure how many teams would be interested. Fans have overrated NE backups for years. To think JG would fetch much is, imo, unrealistic.

 

[supafly]

They could trade him for a 2017 pick.

They could, but it would leave a pretty big hole at a very important position. It's generally understood that a rookie QB isn't exactly going to master the offense from the months of May--Sept during his first season in this complex system, and the uncertainty of Brady's court case makes the situation even murkier. Who would start and lead the team, should the NFL win?

I think he provides much more value to us as a backup who has been studying film and going through practices/drills in our system, than say, taking another shot at a 3rd round pick a year from now. Just my opinion.

If they're going to trade him for a 2017 pick, they damn sure better wait until the court situation is resolved at a minimum. If they're pondering a trade, it's probably in their better interest just to wait until the next offseason.