Caldwell or Gaffney - Who would you rather have?

[pats1]

A few more stats you forgot to add
1)In the playoff against jets #3 Corner was on gaffney and he caught 3 straight for like 30-35 yards [5 minutes of the game], once they put miller on him he did little.

Which quite possibly could have been Hank, although he might have started (!) on the outside that day.

2)Cadwell even through the season and playoff played against the #1 Corner + safety coverage where Jabbar was usually facin #3 or nickel.

Exactly.

 

[wistahpatsfan]

I like Caldwell better than Gaffney overall, but I think there's still a very good chance that neither one of them makes the team.

 

[satz]

I like Caldwell better than Gaffney overall, but I think there's still a very good chance that neither one of them makes the team.

I think in one of the blog they did say that out in minicamp the #1 guys were cadwell and gaffney as of now.The other WR have to step up big and overlap them which you assume is a gimme.

 

[Rob0729]

I like Caldwell better than Gaffney overall, but I think there's still a very good chance that neither one of them makes the team.

I think last week kinda indicated why both will probably make the roster. Although the new guys had their moments and were praised for their efforts, it was quite clear that only Gaffney and Caldwell were the only ones who were consistently in rhythm with Brady.

Yeah, I know it was only mini-camp, but if you look at WRs in the past many of them struggled to pick up the Pats' offense quickly. Heck, I think Donald Hayes is still trying to learn it. Caldwell and Gaffney will probably be intrical to our early season success. I expect one or both to get a lot more playing time than people expect so that Brady will always have at least 1 WR on the field running the right routes on every play and he can feel confident to throw to even if they are the second, third, or fourth read. Moss, Stallworth, and Welker will at least at times struggle with routes and presnap reads early in the season.

I really think people are underestimating the importance of Caldwell and Gaffney to the success of this upcoming season at least early in the year.

 

[Lampshade]

You can slice that info a million ways to Sunday. Yes, Caldwell had more catches, and you can make that a pro or a con depending on your POV and what you want to argue.

But honestly, in your heart of hearts, you don't think any of those four guys would have put up similar numbers if they were in Caldwell's place?

Honestly?

You really think that Caldwell is some sort of special talent that did something that not many NFL WRs could have done?

The fact that he had just about as many 1st downs as the other guys had total catches can never be a con.

Those 4 you listed should be expected to perform (two high draft picks, and two former 1,000 yard receivers), but I don't think Gaffney could have performed even close to how well Caldwell did.

And while I don't think Caldwell is a special talent, I think what he did is being sorely underrated by some. There's a huge gap between how the "average WR" performs and how Caldwell did.

These are the receivers who caught between 41 and 50 1st downs last year:
Hines Ward Pit 50
Antonio Gates SD 49
Derrick Mason Bal 45
Mark Clayton Bal 42
Kellen Winslow 42
Terry Glenn Dal 47
Muhsin Muhammad Chi 45
Plaxico Burress NYG 44
Joey Galloway TB 44
Darrell Jackson Sea 44
Keyshawn Johnson 42
Reche Caldwell 41

That is some pretty good company Caldwell kept.

 

[Keegs]

Which quite possibly could have been Hank, although he might have started (!) on the outside that day.



Exactly.

even more evidence that he can't be trusted.

He sometimes plays decent against Number 1 corners....

other times, Reche chokes and drops touchdown passes when he's wide open in the biggest game of his life.

Inconsistent play is one thing this team does not need from a receiver. Especially when we are in the midst of a dynasty and trying to win superbowls.

But heck, he plays medicore in the regular season and thats enough for some people here.

 

[PATSNUTme]

even more evidence that he can't be trusted.

He sometimes plays decent against Number 1 corners....

other times, Reche chokes and drops touchdown passes when he's wide open in the biggest game of his life.

Inconsistent play is one thing this team does not need from a receiver. Especially when we are in the midst of a dynasty and trying to win superbowls.

But heck, he plays medicore in the regular season and thats enough for some people here.

Look who's here!! Welcome back LeKevin.

 

[PATRIOT64]

The bottom line here is if it comes down to the last roster spot between these two receivers,whoever plays better in camp and in the preseason games will get the nod and the other gets cut.

Whatever happened last year as far as these two players performances means SQUAT right now...Anyone who argues this fact is a complete idiot.

 

[BradyManny]

Whatever happened last year as far as these two players performances means SQUAT right now...Anyone who argues this fact is a complete idiot.

You're making rather bold statement and you have the audacity to declare that anyone who doesn't agree with your statement is a "complete idiot"?!

OF COURSE PAST PERFORMANCES MATTER. Would you have a problem if I said Tom Brady's job was secure, or Richard Seymour's job was secure? Reche Caldwell had a great first season with the Pats, and Tom Brady grew very comfortable with him. Reche Caldwell was the best wide receiver on the Patriots last season, and he has one year of experience with Tom Brady, which is more than any other receiver on the team save for potentially Troy Brown. That matters a friggin lot.

If Reche Caldwell gets cut from the Pats this season, I will happily let you call me a "complete idiot", but until then, please refrain from labeling anyone who disgarees with you as an idiot.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Gaffney who? Reche all the way...How soon we forget. Dude was brought in to be like our #3 receiver and all he did was become our #1 receiver. IMHO out playing Deion "See You Later" Branch last year.

And let's not forget we paid him like $4.87 & a six pack of Bud Lite for last year. You dudes are looking a gift horse in the mouth.

He was brought in to be the #3???? I don't think so...

Gaffney has more of an upside than bugeyes...

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Gaffney didn't have all TC, preseason, and the early part of the regular season to get used to the offense. And he wasn't thrown into the #1 WR role either. He stepped up big time in the playoffs, while Caldwell choked when it counted most.

I'll just refresh this post... because it makes alot of sense.

 

[Keegs]

the pattern here is that the Gaffney side tells the truth and bases their argument off facts.

The Caldwell site manipulates data, leaves out information, and makes horrendous comparisons.

Don't say it isn't true, it is

 

[satz]

the pattern here is that the Gaffney side tells the truth and bases their argument off facts.

The Caldwell site manipulates data, leaves out information, and makes horrendous comparisons.

Don't say it isn't true, it is

I have yet to see a post which has contradicted my following statements
1)Playoff analysis - Jets gaffney had a big game but he was covered by the 3rd corner who was out for hamstring the week before.Played him with with 10yrds gap and in 3 throws he gained 30yrds.Miller comes in within 3 minutes of start of play and then he has less numbers for the rest of the game then reche.
2)#1CB and Safety were on reche were covering reche and #2 Cb/Nickel were on gaffney.yet during regular season he hardly makes any noise.He got #2 coverage due to watson going down.
3)He can only contribute when a #3CB or a Nickel is coverage[when watson went down and he got #2CB he was shut down and in playoff he did good only against #3CB without speed /miller did shut him down after the first 3 catches]
4)If not for reche we would not have gone 12-4 but for some reason people think that is not important as making the playoff does not count.
4)david thomas had one awesome regular game atleast but for some reason gaffney never did.

 

[Keegs]

I have yet to see a post which has contradicted my following statements
1)Playoff analysis - Jets gaffney had a big game but he was covered by the 3rd corner who was out for hamstring the week before.Played him with with 10yrds gap and in 3 throws he gained 30yrds.Miller comes in within 3 minutes of start of play and then he has less numbers for the rest of the game then reche.
2)#1CB and Safety were on reche were covering reche and #2 Cb/Nickel were on gaffney.yet during regular season he hardly makes any noise.He got #2 coverage due to watson going down.
3)He can only contribute when a #3CB or a Nickel is coverage[when watson went down and he got #2CB he was shut down and in playoff he did good only against #3CB without speed /miller did shut him down after the first 3 catches]
4)If not for reche we would not have gone 12-4 but for some reason people think that is not important as making the playoff does not count.
4)david thomas had one awesome regular game atleast but for some reason gaffney never did.

this post will......

I'm not saying Reche wasn't covered by better DBs, BUT

either way, in the AFC Championship game he CHOKED and dropped 2 easy balls when he was WIDE OPEN.

This means that his play is inconsistent and erratic. Although sometimes he plays solid against a #1 corner, other times when wide open he is unreliable.

So with Reche you never really know what you are getting. He is the Rex Grossman of receivers. Sometimes he plays good (not great), other times, he craps his pants.

Now do you really want him getting the ball in another big game?
We have no clue what will happen.
All i know is, either way, in all the playoff games Jabar out-performed Reche (even in San Diego) and he didn't drop any balls when wide open.

As a matter of fact, he bailed Reche out one play. The irony.

 

[shmessy]

The fact that he had just about as many 1st downs as the other guys had total catches can never be a con.

Those 4 you listed should be expected to perform (two high draft picks, and two former 1,000 yard receivers), but I don't think Gaffney could have performed even close to how well Caldwell did.

And while I don't think Caldwell is a special talent, I think what he did is being sorely underrated by some. There's a huge gap between how the "average WR" performs and how Caldwell did.

These are the receivers who caught between 41 and 50 1st downs last year:
Hines Ward Pit 50
Antonio Gates SD 49
Derrick Mason Bal 45
Mark Clayton Bal 42
Kellen Winslow 42
Terry Glenn Dal 47
Muhsin Muhammad Chi 45
Plaxico Burress NYG 44
Joey Galloway TB 44
Darrell Jackson Sea 44
Keyshawn Johnson 42
Reche Caldwell 41

That is some pretty good company Caldwell kept.

Caldwell had SIXTY ONE (61) receptions last year.

 

[JackBauer]

this post will......

I'm not saying Reche wasn't covered by better DBs, BUT

either way, in the AFC Championship game he CHOKED and dropped 2 easy balls when he was WIDE OPEN.

This means that his play is inconsistent and erratic. Although sometimes he plays solid against a #1 corner, other times when wide open he is unreliable.

So with Reche you never really know what you are getting. He is the Rex Grossman of receivers. Sometimes he plays good (not great), other times, he craps his pants.

Now do you really want him getting the ball in another big game?
We have no clue what will happen.
All i know is, either way, in all the playoff games Jabar out-performed Reche (even in San Diego) and he didn't drop any balls when wide open.

As a matter of fact, he bailed Reche out one play. The irony.

This is a very weak rejoinder and does not refute any of the points made previously.

 

[Keegs]

This is a very weak rejoinder and does not refute any of the points made previously.

ummm yeah it does actually.

The argument was that Caldwell is the choice over Gaffney because Caldwell faces better defenders.

But when Caldwell plays like dogcrap when wide open, this point means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

his play is erratic, and this team suffers because of it.

now please, come up with some thoughts of your own and quit jumping on every pro-caldwell argument, quoting it, and saying "yeah what he said"

 

[Lampshade]

Caldwell had SIXTY ONE (61) receptions last year.

Yep, 41 of which resulted in 1st downs.

 

[satz]

this post will......

I'm not saying Reche wasn't covered by better DBs, BUT

either way, in the AFC Championship game he CHOKED and dropped 2 easy balls when he was WIDE OPEN.

This means that his play is inconsistent and erratic. Although sometimes he plays solid against a #1 corner, other times when wide open he is unreliable.

So with Reche you never really know what you are getting. He is the Rex Grossman of receivers. Sometimes he plays good (not great), other times, he craps his pants.

Now do you really want him getting the ball in another big game?
We have no clue what will happen.
All i know is, either way, in all the playoff games Jabar out-performed Reche (even in San Diego) and he didn't drop any balls when wide open.

As a matter of fact, he bailed Reche out one play. The irony.

I think you if you want to add rex grossman then its more gaffney.

1)Against SD we went 3 and out twice because gaffney caught balls for first down and decide to the run back around the coverage and ended up leading to 3 and out by lossing yards....was not thinking
2)I think reche has been more consistent then gaffney under better coverage,he has always had few catches in every game he played unlike gaffney who needs ideal condition to play.
3)Actually,gaffney is like rex.Gaffney needs slow #3 CB to succed and rarely goes up the middle [cadwell usualy ran up the middle to take a hit and catch].
4)Some teams used a safety and CB to jam reche and he was consistent.
5)Do you want me to pick out 2 plays for every starter in the AFCC game who messed up?.i can.

 

[tombonneau]

4)If not for reche we would not have gone 12-4 but for some reason people think that is not important as making the playoff does not count.

I don't see how you can state that as a fact. The Pats likely would have gone 12-4 with any other warm body at WR instead of Reche.

Please name one game in the regular season where Reche made a game-changing play.

For some reason people seem to think that running a 10-yard pattern, having Brady throw a perfect pass, catching the ball and falling down is some sort of unique skillset that Caldwell possesses but no other NFL WR could possibly ever have replicated for the Patriots last year.