Caldwell or Gaffney - Who would you rather have?

[JackBauer]

Here's what I posted in the other thread. Sorry, I mis-remembered, only found 4 (this thread was weeks ago) but this is just a cursory sample based off the top of my head regarding 2006 WRs and their teams' situations. I'm sure if I went back a few seasons I could fine 4-5 every year.

While Caldwell's YPC was lower, he had ~20 more receptions than any of those WRs, two of whom are, IMO, better talents than Caldwell.

 

[RayClay]

Do I have to dislike Caldwell to pick Gaffney? I don't, I base my vote on watching the styles of both.

Their is no rational way to compare them head to head since Gaffney didn't have a pre season and much at all in season opportunities and the playoffs are too small a sampling.

I think they both make the team and Caldwell is an average receiver if he works at it, while Gaffney can be above average.

Again, there is no logical way to compare them based on last year.

 

[JackBauer]

that's because you got ripped apart and have no original thoughts.

You jump on the bandwagon and then run away when i prove you wrong.

You manipulate data, make horrible comparisons, and ignore facts.

I've manipuated nothing, i've taken everything into account, including facts.

If you don't want to take me seriously that's fine. but i'll never take you seriously after witnessing the stunt you pulled in this thread.

*yawn*

All I have to say is, good.

 

[Keegs]

Do I have to dislike Caldwell to pick Gaffney? I don't, I base my vote on watching the styles of both.

Their is no rational way to compare them head to head since Gaffney didn't have a pre season and much at all in season opportunities and the playoffs are too small a sampling.

I think they both make the team and Caldwell is an average receiver if he works at it, while Gaffney can be above average.

Again, there is no logical way to compare them based on last year.

another point that is constantly ignored in the reche/jabar debate.

 

[JackBauer]

By the way, Tom, Gaffney has an 11.8 YPC average over his career.

 

[tombonneau]

While Caldwell's YPC was lower, he had ~20 more receptions than any of those WRs, two of whom are, IMO, better talents than Caldwell.

Yes, but I would argue that simply catching a lot of passes is not necessarily an arbiter of exceptional WR talent.

It's why Lynn Swann is in the Hall of Fame and Art Monk is not.

 

[tombonneau]

By the way, Tom, Gaffney has an 11.8 YPC average over his career.

I know. I'm not saying Gaffney is more talented than Caldwell. That has never been my argument. They are both average WRs.

Talent-wise and regular season produciton-wise, IMO they are a wash. Either one will at best be our #4 WR (barring injuries) and account for 20-25 regular season catches tops. So in that regard, they are interchangable.

My contention is that when push comes to shove and its the playoffs, I'd much rather have as the team's #4WR the guy who has already proven he can come up big in the playoffs vs. the guy who laid an egg.

I can't imagine thinking otherwise.

If we were debating who you would want as the teams' #1 WR, Gaffney or Caldwell, I could understand supporting Bug Eyes, but as the team's #4/5 WR, Gaffney no contest.

 

[Lampshade]

Here's what I posted in the other thread. Sorry, I mis-remembered, only found 4 (this thread was weeks ago) but this is just a cursory sample based off the top of my head regarding 2006 WRs and their teams' situations. I'm sure if I went back a few seasons I could fine 4-5 every year.

Two of the four you listed previously had 1,000 yard seasons, and the other two were 1st round picks entering their 2nd years (edit: actually Brown was 3 picks into round 2).

Even so, Caldwell had 20 more catches than the guys on your list; caught more TDs than all but one; and caught more 1st downs than all of them.

In fact, Caldwell had as many 1st down catches as Jones and Bennett had catches, and only a handful less than the other two.

The only thing those guys had on him was YPC, and that's clearly a result of Caldwell being a more frequent (and more succesful) target on 3rd downs.

 

[tombonneau]

Two of the four you listed previously had 1,000 yard seasons, and the other two were 1st round picks entering their 2nd years (edit: actually Brown was 3 picks into round 2).

Even so, Caldwell had 20 more catches than the guys on your list; caught more TDs than all but one; and caught more 1st downs than all of them.

In fact, Caldwell had as many 1st down catches as Jones and Bennett had catches, and only a handful less than the other two.

The only thing those guys had on him was YPC, and that's clearly a result of Caldwell being a more frequent (and more succesful) target on 3rd downs.

You can slice that info a million ways to Sunday. Yes, Caldwell had more catches, and you can make that a pro or a con depending on your POV and what you want to argue.

But honestly, in your heart of hearts, you don't think any of those four guys would have put up similar numbers if they were in Caldwell's place?

Honestly?

You really think that Caldwell is some sort of special talent that did something that not many NFL WRs could have done?

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Gaffney didn't have all TC, preseason, and the early part of the regular season to get used to the offense. And he wasn't thrown into the #1 WR role either. He stepped up big time in the playoffs, while Caldwell choked when it counted most.

Spot on post.

Gaffney would be my choice.

 

[captain stone]

I voted for Gaffney, but only if Every Single Other Thing were exactly equal.
That possibility is, of course, nearly impossible.

One scenario that could develop near the end of TC is this:

First, I am ass-u-ming (hoping) that Troy Brown is re-signed.
And that Chad Jackson is on PUP.
And that there are no injuries.
And that everyone plays up to their capabilities.

The depth chart would then look roughly like this:
Moss - Stallworth
Welker - Brown
Caldwell - Gaffney
Washington - Jackson (PUP)
Kight - Childress

The X Factor could be Washington. IF he greatly improves his route-running, and IF he greatly improves his pass-catching, and IF he can block close to how Givens blocked, then the FO will be forced to choose between Gaffney and Caldwell, because neither Moss nor Stallworth will block, and Gaffney and Caldwell block pitifully. Plus, Washington has experience on ST coverage/returns. I would expect, then, to see traded before Opening Day, whoever of Gaffney and Caldwell will fetch the better return.

The preceding scenario appears unlikely, however, given Washington's 4-year track record. The real possibility exists that both Gaffney and Caldwell make the 53, and Washington is traded/released.

But what if Jackson is fully recovered by the start of TC, and is removed from PUP? Is it then Gaffney vs. Caldwell (vs. Washington) again?

Another scenario to consider is: 5 WRs or 6 WRs? The possibilities are numerous, so I say: may the best men win, and trade the rest.

 

[Brady to Brown]

What bothers me most about Caldwell is the Charger fans who came to this site and said that Caldwell would choke when the pressure was on like he had done so many times with the Chargers.

Then he did.

 

[pats1]

What bothers me most about Caldwell is the Charger fans who came to this site and said that Caldwell would choke when the pressure was on like he had done so many times with the Chargers.

Then he did.

Like he did when playing against his former team in the 4th quarter of a certain AFC Divisional Playoff game?

Wait...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Chargers receiver driven to leave demons behind
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20070610-9999-1s10chargers.html

Reader comments
By SpellingChamp on 06/10/2007

Eric Parker wasn't the only reason the team lost that playoff game. The stupid mistakes hurt more then Parkers 2 dropped passes and punk return screw up. Have a good year and everyone will forget as long as you don't choke in the playoffs again.

By donez3 on 06/10/2007

It'd be different if he were some whiny, cry-baby punk, but he's not, so Bolt fans have already forgiven him. No one can fault anybody for making mistakes if that person's heart is in the right place and they work harder than everyone else on a regular basis; those things just happen sometimes. Super Bowl baby!

By bozzmania on 06/10/2007

Let's stop the blame game crapola.....the team, as in all of them "choked" the game...even the Patriots knew it....holding their hands to their necks taunting the Chargers as they left the field....it's what made LT so mad caused he knew they were right..stop the blaming of Shottenheimer, Cameron's play calling, 1 guys foul, one guys fumble, the "grassy knoll" Plays were there they weren't made.. THE TEAM has to live with it and learn from it.

By gochargers on 06/10/2007

Well get over it that game is ancient history, life goes on. I'm still worried about Kaeding if he isn't jinxed or psyched out after he missed the Jets kick and now the Patriots kick is he ever going to make a game winning kick in the playoffs time will tell. I'm rooting for him he is a great kicker but sometimes things get into your head that you can't do it and it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy.

 

[rabthepat]

Gaffney who? Reche all the way...How soon we forget. Dude was brought in to be like our #3 receiver and all he did was become our #1 receiver. IMHO out playing Deion "See You Later" Branch last year.

And let's not forget we paid him like $4.87 & a six pack of Bud Lite for last year. You dudes are looking a gift horse in the mouth.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Gaffney who? Reche all the way...How soon we forget. Dude was brought in to be like our #3 receiver and all he did was become our #1 receiver. IMHO out playing Deion "See You Later" Branch last year.

And let's not forget we paid him like $4.87 & a six pack of Bud Lite for last year. You dudes are looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Some of them seem confused about which end has the mouth when they look.

 

[Patjew]

I voted for Gaffney, but only if Every Single Other Thing were exactly equal.
That possibility is, of course, nearly impossible.

One scenario that could develop near the end of TC is this:

First, I am ass-u-ming (hoping) that Troy Brown is re-signed.
And that Chad Jackson is on PUP.
And that there are no injuries.
And that everyone plays up to their capabilities.

The depth chart would then look roughly like this:
Moss - Stallworth
Welker - Brown
Caldwell - Gaffney
Washington - Jackson (PUP)
Kight - Childress

You think Troy will be second-string? I would have guessed 3rd.

 

[captain stone]

You think Troy will be second-string? I would have guessed 3rd.

I put Troy Brown where I did because if he signs with the NEP, he makes the team, along with Moss, Stallworth and Welker. Caldwell and Gaffney are neck-and-neck right now, so I decided to place them, for the time being, side-by-side. Who occupies which spot on the Opening Day depth chart will be determined during TC.

 

[BAM!]

I think everyone that is picking Gaffney has a very short memory. You people are in the "what have you done for me lately?" camp. If you go back to the season, you can make a case for Caldwell in that if it weren't for him, they may not have even reached the playoffs, let alone the AFCCG.

One guy has his best season of his entire career and the other shows up in the playoffs. So what would you rather have, someone that was thrust into a position he never was in before with all the pressure and scrutiny to perform AND DOES. Or the guy that doesn't step up in the regular season when its needed the most and then benefits in the playoffs from the fact Caldwell was focused on more than he.

Just to put things into a little perspective, here are some stats about their individual performances last year.
In the playoffs:
Gaffney: 21 Rec. 244 Yards 11.6 Avg 2-Td's Longest play 31 yards
Caldwell: 16 Rec. 176 Yards 11.0 Avg 1-TD Longest play 49 yards
Seems to me that Gaffney may have benefitted from the fact that Caldwell was the one that they focused on more.

During the season:
Gaffney: 11 Rec. 142 Yards 12.9 Avg. 1-TD Longest play 33 yards. He played in 11 games starting 6.
Caldwell: 61 Rec. 760 Yards 12.5 Avg. 4-TD's Longest play 62 yards. He played in 16 games starting 14.

Doesn't anyone remember Gaffney missing on deep plays down the field during the season? After looking at these stats, how can people possibly say that they want Gaffney over Caldwell? Caldwell doesn't have to be the #1 this year so right off the bat he's going to benefit more, unlike Gaffney who should've been able to do that last year.

 

[satz]

I think everyone that is picking Gaffney has a very short memory. You people are in the "what have you done for me lately?" camp. If you go back to the season, you can make a case for Caldwell in that if it weren't for him, they may not have even reached the playoffs, let alone the AFCCG.

One guy has his best season of his entire career and the other shows up in the playoffs. So what would you rather have, someone that was thrust into a position he never was in before with all the pressure and scrutiny to perform AND DOES. Or the guy that doesn't step up in the regular season when its needed the most and then benefits in the playoffs from the fact Caldwell was focused on more than he.

Just to put things into a little perspective, here are some stats about their individual performances last year.
In the playoffs:
Gaffney: 21 Rec. 244 Yards 11.6 Avg 2-Td's Longest play 31 yards
Caldwell: 16 Rec. 176 Yards 11.0 Avg 1-TD Longest play 49 yards
Seems to me that Gaffney may have benefitted from the fact that Caldwell was the one that they focused on more.

During the season:
Gaffney: 11 Rec. 142 Yards 12.9 Avg. 1-TD Longest play 33 yards. He played in 11 games starting 6.
Caldwell: 61 Rec. 760 Yards 12.5 Avg. 4-TD's Longest play 62 yards. He played in 16 games starting 14.

Doesn't anyone remember Gaffney missing on deep plays down the field during the season? After looking at these stats, how can people possibly say that they want Gaffney over Caldwell? Caldwell doesn't have to be the #1 this year so right off the bat he's going to benefit more, unlike Gaffney who should've been able to do that last year.

A few more stats you forgot to add
1)In the playoff against jets #3 Corner was on gaffney and he caught 3 straight for like 30-35 yards [5 minutes of the game], once they put miller on him he did little.
2)Cadwell even through the season and playoff played against the #1 Corner + safety coverage where Jabbar was usually facin #3 or nickel.