Redskins Postgame Thread

[Bruins29]

This has been totally strawmaned into something about Gronk being not vital and DI's original claim (which had nothing to do with Gronk being not vital) into something about Gronk not being vital.

It was never claimed or hinted that Gronk isnt vital and important and great and all that stuff.

 

[jays52]

Tom Brady is the best player in the history of the game at its most important position. He is arguably the best football player to ever live. He's pretty important. That's obvious.

Gronk also happens to be a once in a generation level player who could also enter the GOAT conversation at his position in the very near future. His particular position and the skill set he brings to it is of special importance to the scheme in which he plays. Accordingly, his presence and impact on the effectiveness on that unit is difficult to understate.

They've had a lot of good runs without Gronk but there is *at least* one season that would have resulted in an additional championship should they have had him. In 2006, had the quarterback adequate personnel around him they probably would have won another. They benefit eachother immensely. They are both critically important to the success of the team and its championship viability. They are both special players that we as fans are lucky to have the privelidge of watching.

Now let's quit arguing for the sake of arguing and be cool to eachother

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Interesting fact regarding the last minute garbage time TD for the Skins. It put the Patriots D at 5th. The Patriots keep that TD from happening and they are the #1 D (in the most important D stat -- IMHO -- points allowed per game).

Not that I care much (W-L is the only stat that matters) but I thought it was noteworthy that one garbage time TD causes a 1 to 5 jump. It shows how arbitrary stats can be....

 

[TommyD4207]

Interesting fact regarding the last minute garbage time TD for the Skins. It put the Patriots D at 5th. The Patriots keep that TD from happening and they are the #1 D (in the most important D stat -- IMHO -- points allowed per game).

Not that I care much (W-L is the only stat that matters) but I thought it was noteworthy that one garbage time TD causes a 1 to 5 jump. It shows how arbitrary stats can be....

Not possible. We "almost lost" because of that TD.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Not possible. We "almost lost" because of that TD.

Agreed. We "almost lost" in the sense that after the Skins TD they could have recovered an onside kick and scored a TD, then recovered another onside kick and scored a TD, then recovered another onside kick and scored a FG -- doing all of those things in less than 30 total seconds. Then assuming they can score in OT and hold the Patriots scoreless.......yea, it was almost a loss .

 

[BradyFTW!]

Gronk is the greatest TE of all time. But he's still 'only' the second most important player on the Pats' offense. Brady's on a different level, both because of how good he is and how important QBs are.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Gronk is the greatest TE of all time. But he's still 'only' the second most important player on the Pats' offense. Brady's on a different level, both because of how good he is and how important QBs are.

I'm curious if someone suggested Gronk was as important as Brady? If there is such a person please urge them to seek psychiatric care immediately...

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Half way through the season there are 7 teams that have placed themselves above the fray (arbitrarily using no more than 2 losses):
Patriots, Cincy, Carolina, Denver, Minn, GB, Arizona.

The Patriots have dismissed each and every opponent with comfortable or better leads in virtually all 4th quarters and only last minute improbable heroics were capable of providing a regulation time loss against any opponent (Buff to be specific). They have scored more than anyone else and they are 5 points away from haven given up the least points.

-Carolina and Cincy are undefeated but have scraped by multiple times. They have only a few examples of 'dismissing' opponents a la Patriots style. Carolina isn't even averaging more than 1 score margin of victory (amazing stat when you consider they are 8-0). Right now Cincy makes the case they are the second best team in the NFL.
-Denver has not only now lost, they have won multiple times just by the skin of a horse's tooth. a PM team not even averaging more than 1 score net points? Wow...
-Minn continues to play above average but is frequently eking by and has the look of team that could fade with even the smallest hit to their confidence (good thing they don't play the Patriots. It would kill their season). They are at a lowly 28 net points.
-GB looks the worst of this group IMHO and is going in the wrong direction. One might argue this team has been exposed (we'll see if that is premature and if they can right this ship).

Goodell and his scumbag band of majority owners are getting their wish. Unlike past years where there were always several dominant teams that would either wipe the floor with most of their opponents, they would frequently be comfortable by mid 4th quarter. Now every game is participation trophy worthy and all but one team is having to fight tooth and friggin nail to scrape out almost every win.
The Patriots are CLEARLY in a class very very much by themselves. If this keeps up -- no injuries!! -- you can bet Goodell and his merry band of scumbags will be even more irritated by the Patriots very existance (and I hope they are and they choke on it). Bottom line: it appears to me the Patriots are what the NFL "brain" trust" does not want

BTW, notable mention and a big shout out to Detroit for keeping the new NFL from being complete. They are keeping it from being a clean 32 team sweep by not yet having earned their 'participation trophy'. But don't worry, they have plenty of time and competition to get a few wins to earn their trophy.

 

[SVN]

Bill Belichick confirms it's 'always good to score points' while playing football

 

[supafly]

The Patriots have dismissed each and every opponent with comfortable or better leads in virtually all 4th quarters and only last minute improbable heroics were capable of providing a regulation time loss against any opponent (Buff to be specific).

Actually, I'd consider the NYJ game from a couple of weeks ago to be a much better example than the BUF game.

The Jets were down 7 and had the ball somewhere around midfield, when a false start from Brandon Marshall prevented an attempt at tying the game via a jump ball to the end zone.

The Bills, on the other hand, were still technically within a score at 40-32, but they'd have needed both a TD and the 2 point conversion. I suppose it's up to personal opinion, but I didn't remember being as concerned in the BUF game as I was in the NYJ game.

Either way, it's great to have some breathing room so far this year. Let's hope it keeps up. It's been a welcome change to my "pacing" routine that I've developed over the years during the rough moments at the end of games.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Actually, I'd consider the NYJ game from a couple of weeks ago to be a much better example than the BUF game.

The Jets were down 7 and had the ball somewhere around midfield, when a false start from Brandon Marshall prevented an attempt at tying the game via a jump ball to the end zone.

The Bills, on the other hand, were still technically within a score at 40-32, but they'd have needed both a TD and the 2 point conversion. I suppose it's up to personal opinion, but I didn't remember being as concerned in the BUF game as I was in the NYJ game.

Either way, it's great to have some breathing room so far this year. Let's hope it keeps up. It's been a welcome change to my "pacing" routine that I've developed over the years during the rough moments at the end of games.

You got me Sup -- my memory is beginning to fail .
But the point still remains. Outside of a very unlikely, multi inside 2 minute scoring drives by an opponent, the Patriots have not been close to losing. No other team is remotely close to that mark. Agreed?

 

[supafly]

You got me Sup -- my memory is beginning to fail .
But the point still remains. Outside of a very unlikely, multi inside 2 minute scoring drives by an opponent, the Patriots have not been close to losing. No other team is remotely close to that mark. Agreed?

Oh, absolutely. You have quite the valid point that we've looked the best out of the contenders thus far. I didn't mean for it to come off as nitpicky, just pointing out that I personally was more concerned vs the Jets than the Bills.

As usual, I would expect the injury bug to be the most difficult opponent, and that's not meaning to sound arrogant because I certainly believe the other contenders to be worthwhile.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Patriots came within minutes of a SB win without Gronk in 2011, despite having a Godawful secondary.

Only Brady is essential to this Patriots team.

He puts them over the edge.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They did win 3 Super Bowls without Gronk.

..and lost two without him.

 

[rookBoston]

What does not kill me makes me stronger

Next Man Up is a rallying cry and a point of pride for the lockerroom. Bolden looking sharp, Freeney looking sharp, Andrews looking sharp, Stork shocking the world. I will be more surprised when the Next Man Up is just simply unable to do the job, and it costs the team a game. I can hardly imagine that happening to this team.

So much of this game is mental. The attitude of the team, the commitment they make to each other, is everything. You can see it in the way they play as a unit. They believe in the coaching. They believe in each other. The material of that steely mindset comes from seeing a guy like Fleming come in under fire and seeing him make it work. Coleman making plays in the secondary, amazing. Branch is a monster inside... that guy should be a has-been by now, but he's found a Fountain of Youth.

Here's what stood out for me in the Washington game... the players on this team really enjoy playing with each other. The team celebrations are authentic, and everyone is in on it. I don't see it from the other teams in the league. The entire offense jogs into the end zone to congratulate the guy who scored the TD... every one of them... and then they turn to congratulate each other as they run off the field as a unit. On D, the chest bumps after a sack, hugs after a forced fumble, and knocking helmets jogging off the field together after forcing a third down incompletion. These guys really really love playing together, playing for each other. Where are the prima donnas? Where are the disruptive, selfish, late to meeting, survive on talent divas that eat through other locker rooms?

Attitude is the substance of championship football, and it almost doesn't matter anymore who's taking the snaps. This type of in-game hardship is like a refinery, forging steel. Guys step up. The team is there for them. They make it work. Players commit and the coaching staff find a way to get the most of what they have.

It's only Week 9, and the Pats are already playoff ready, hardened and bulletproof. With the injuries sustained, the team is actually situated to GET BETTER at a lot of positions, as players come back from their injuries. For the guys that go to IR, the Next Guy has the confidence and the support of an entire Franchise that deeply believes he can do it, to a man.

It really is magic land these days in Foxboro.

 

[Deus Irae]

He puts them over the edge.

Any number of players can put them over the top. Dion Lewis can put them over the top.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Any number of players can put them over the top. Dion Lewis can put them over the top.

My point is Gronk is more impactful than Lewis.

 

[Oswlek]

What does not kill me...

.... may still end up killing me later if I don't heal up.

 

[fnordcircle]

From reddit, but when I saw this dude in the crowd I knew instantly it was Luck. He took that good mojo from watching his favorite team and was able to beat the Broncos.

 

[BobDigital]

Half way through the season there are 7 teams that have placed themselves above the fray (arbitrarily using no more than 2 losses):
Patriots, Cincy, Carolina, Denver, Minn, GB, Arizona.

The Patriots have dismissed each and every opponent with comfortable or better leads in virtually all 4th quarters and only last minute improbable heroics were capable of providing a regulation time loss against any opponent (Buff to be specific). They have scored more than anyone else and they are 5 points away from haven given up the least points.

-Carolina and Cincy are undefeated but have scraped by multiple times. They have only a few examples of 'dismissing' opponents a la Patriots style. Carolina isn't even averaging more than 1 score margin of victory (amazing stat when you consider they are 8-0). Right now Cincy makes the case they are the second best team in the NFL.
-Denver has not only now lost, they have won multiple times just by the skin of a horse's tooth. a PM team not even averaging more than 1 score net points? Wow...
-Minn continues to play above average but is frequently eking by and has the look of team that could fade with even the smallest hit to their confidence (good thing they don't play the Patriots. It would kill their season). They are at a lowly 28 net points.
-GB looks the worst of this group IMHO and is going in the wrong direction. One might argue this team has been exposed (we'll see if that is premature and if they can right this ship).

Goodell and his scumbag band of majority owners are getting their wish. Unlike past years where there were always several dominant teams that would either wipe the floor with most of their opponents, they would frequently be comfortable by mid 4th quarter. Now every game is participation trophy worthy and all but one team is having to fight tooth and friggin nail to scrape out almost every win.
The Patriots are CLEARLY in a class very very much by themselves. If this keeps up -- no injuries!! -- you can bet Goodell and his merry band of scumbags will be even more irritated by the Patriots very existance (and I hope they are and they choke on it). Bottom line: it appears to me the Patriots are what the NFL "brain" trust" does not want

BTW, notable mention and a big shout out to Detroit for keeping the new NFL from being complete. They are keeping it from being a clean 32 team sweep by not yet having earned their 'participation trophy'. But don't worry, they have plenty of time and competition to get a few wins to earn their trophy.

The Pats did have 1 kinda close call with the Jets. It took an onside kick for them to get it but it happened. Also the Pats had a semi-close call with the Bills being up less than a TD late and the Bills having possession of the ball.

So the Pats have been in a few close games though not as close as other teams cause they have never been tied or down late and I think every other team has been.

I think the top tier of the NFL looks something like this.

Patriots Bengals Panthers Cardinals Broncos in that order.

I put GB, Vikings, Seattle, Falcons in the 2nd tier. I just think the 5 above teams have shown more than them and belong in their own category.

Interesting note. My top 4 teams are the top 4 offensive teams too.

Minnaosta to me is a slightly worse version of Denver (good D meh O)
GB has Rodgers but really not much else and they can't win on the road.

That is why i kicked them out of the top tier.