The ONE question I want asked and answered by the media about framegate

[Tony2046]

Ugh, that deeply flawed article. There are at least a half dozen articles that point out the flaws in his analysis. Including one done by drew fustin, who also pointed holes in exponent's analysis.

One incredibly unfortunate thing that happened in all this was when well known scientists screwed up their calculations. Neil Degrasse, for example, initially disagreed with BB's analysis but later retracted it but unfortunately once it was out there it was just fuel for the fire.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

One incredibly unfortunate thing that happened in all this was when well known scientists screwed up their calculations. Neil Degrasse, for example, initially disagreed with BB's analysis but later retracted it but unfortunately once it was out there it was just fuel for the fire.

Even when he retracted it he just said they were guilty with different numbers. NDT is really more of a shaman for the IFL science cultists than a person with any genuine intellectual curiosity.

 

[Tony2046]

Even when he retracted it he just said they were guilty with different numbers. NDT is really more of a shaman for the IFL science cultists than a person with any genuine intellectual curiosity.

I did not know that. Too bad.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

I did not know that. Too bad.

His correction said the balls would have had to be inflated in a room 90 degrees to lose pressure, and since we know the building wasn't 90 degrees...

 

[juny]

His correction said the balls would have had to be inflated in a room 90 degrees to lose pressure, and since we know the building wasn't 90 degrees...

He was correct about his new numbers but they were based on the FALSE info of 2 PSI that Mort gave out.

 

[Nunchucks]

Even when he retracted it he just said they were guilty with different numbers. NDT is really more of a shaman for the IFL science cultists than a person with any genuine intellectual curiosity.

lol, a "shaman" for the IFL science "cultists"

Science and the words "shaman" and "cultists" do not belong together. science is essentially being able to test a hypothesis and get the same result over and over again....no matter who is testing, as long as they are following the prescribed step. Science is logic....it is math and physics......cultists and shaman?

wow.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

lol, a "shaman" for the IFL science "cultists"

Science and the words "shaman" and "cultists" do not belong together. science is essentially being able to test a hypothesis and get the same result over and over again....no matter who is testing, as long as they are following the prescribed step. Science is logic....it is math and physics......cultists and shaman?

wow.

Saying something sciency sounding isn't science. Look at his football deflation analysis. Takes garbage data, does half-assed analysis, comes to wrong conclusion and his audience claps like seals. It's his MO, he is the epitome of Feynman's cargo cult scientist.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

so simply...I want asked and answered by those in the media that still think the Pats and or TB12 is guilty...

"What would it take for you to believe Pats and or TB12 are innocent of this crazy accusation?"

I want to really understand their level of objectivity...if there is any. NOT holding my breath.

Something like this (and it may still not be enough):

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

He was correct about his new numbers but they were based on the FALSE info of 2 PSI that Mort gave out.

Mort's numbers were always speculation, there was no hard evidence Mort was correct and everyone knew it. Even if they were correct is was too inaccurate to do analysis. The exact report "11 of 12 Patriots balls were found to be underinflated by 2 pounds each." That could have meant 2 psi below where they started, below the min, or below the max. We never knew what psi the balls started at. Any scientist worth his salt wouldn't make wild proclamations of guilt based not just on imprecise data, but on a mere rumor of imprecise data.

 

[Nunchucks]

Saying something sciency sounding isn't science. Look at his football deflation analysis. Takes garbage data, does half-assed analysis, comes to wrong conclusion and his audience claps like seals. It's his MO, he is the epitome of Feynman's cargo cult scientist.

Um, he based his comments on a 2 psi difference. If he knew it was only 1-1.4 psi off, he may have had different findings.

As for the blurb you posted...maybe you should read about what he has done or not done....I took 3 minutes and find that blurb very misleading.

 

[Fencer]

Anyone who is informed on all this stuff, the Pash/Wells Report, all the Goodell lies, the Mortensen report, the NFL's admission there is no evidence, and is still convinced Brady is guilty is a fool.

There's actually one "Brady is guilty" argument that isn't totally idiotic. I don't agree with it, but it's not horrifically stupid. Its essence is:

• Brady has simply, clearly, and persuasively said he's innocent of the specific charges.
• However, it is also the case more generally that Brady stumbled and bumbled and said a few implausible things ...
• ... so what was he covering up?

I explain that by saying Brady's reflex reaction to the press is to say nothing substantive, even to the point of mild lies, just as (and indeed in direct imitation of) BB. But if somebody thinks it's a sign of some kind of guilt -- perhaps of some other rules violation that's in "everybody does it" territory -- I understand.

 

[Nunchucks]

Mort's numbers were always speculation, there was no hard evidence Mort was correct and everyone knew it. Even if they were correct is was too inaccurate to do analysis. The exact report "11 of 12 Patriots balls were found to be underinflated by 2 pounds each." Tha could have meant 2 psi below where they started, below the min, or below the max. We never knew what psi the balls started at. Any scientist worth his salt wouldn't make wild proclamations of guilt based not just on imprecise data, but on a mere rumor of imprecise data.

lol, wow...you really are denigrating a lot of actual scientists that did just that....

 

[Fencer]

One incredibly unfortunate thing that happened in all this was when well known scientists screwed up their calculations. Neil Degrasse, for example, initially disagreed with BB's analysis but later retracted it but unfortunately once it was out there it was just fuel for the fire.

Well, it's either screw up their calculations or assume the 2 PSI Mort figures -- both absolute and relative to what did or didn't happen to the Colts' balls -- were accurate, and assert the Ideal Gas Law doesn't really explain those.

 

[Ring 6]

lol, wow...you really are denigrating a lot of actual scientists that did just that....

Are you really saying that a scientist who does a study to determine if '11 or 12 balls were under by 2 psi' is scientifically proven by the Ideal Gas Law is doing legitimate work?

 

[Ring 6]

Well, it's either screw up their calculations or assume the 2 PSI Mort figures -- both absolute and relative to what did or didn't happen to the Colts' balls -- were accurate, and assert the Ideal Gas Law doesn't really explain those.

He made incorrect calculations.

 

[Nunchucks]

Are you really saying that a scientist who does a study to determine if '11 or 12 balls were under by 2 psi' is scientifically proven by the Ideal Gas Law is doing legitimate work?

Lots of physics professors looked into the possibilities and did rudimentary calculations to get an estimation of the possibility of whether the deflation is explainable by the ideal gas law.

Legitimacy is in the eye of the beholder. If there is public interest, I can see it being a legitimate endeavor.

 

[Tony2046]

lol, a "shaman" for the IFL science "cultists"

Science and the words "shaman" and "cultists" do not belong together. science is essentially being able to test a hypothesis and get the same result over and over again....no matter who is testing, as long as they are following the prescribed step. Science is logic....it is math and physics......cultists and shaman?

wow.

Science in it's purist form is logic. Unfortunately when Science is perverted with assumptions, politics, motives, greed etc...it is no longer just logic and math.

We have seen this in global warming, deflategate, and other agenda driven issues.

Bob's comment was understandable.

 

[patfanken]

Mort's incorrect leaks from the NFL office WERE the smoking gun that made sense of the charge that the Pats tampered with the balls. If the Pats were innocent, then WHY weren't the Colts' balls deflated as well?
THAT was a question no Pats supporter could satisfactorily answer until MUCH latter when it was found NOT to be true. The Colts balls DID deflate (at least 3 of 4.

Brady's stumbling answers to the initial questioning are explainable. All he knew was what Mort reported. He had no idea why the balls were 2psi below what they were supposed to be, and why his balls deflated and the Colts did not. That's why he sounded so dumbfounded and not definitive. THAT's the response of an innocent man, that came out like he was hiding something. He was the victim of the purposely false info leaked to Mort by the NFL, just like the rest of country was.

When you think about it a bit, you have to come to the conclusion that without the fraudulent figures in the Mort Report, and the NFL decreed gag order that kept the Pats from refuting them, there IS no deflategate scandal, no suspensions, fines, or losses of draft picks.

 

[Ring 6]

Lots of physics professors looked into the possibilities and did rudimentary calculations to get an estimation of the possibility of whether the deflation is explainable by the ideal gas law.

Legitimacy is in the eye of the beholder. If there is public interest, I can see it being a legitimate endeavor.

OK if thats how you feel.
I don't see how any science can be legitimate when you do not know the facts.

 

[Fencer]

He made incorrect calculations.

I don't recall the specifics of each case.

I think Bill Nye was more in the vein of, besides being a Seahawks homer, relying on exaggerated PSI data.