The "Brady did a little bit wrong" crowd

[SHOWTIME15]

i don't think brady did anything wrong. i suspect mcnally went to the restroom to make sure none of the balls were 16 PSI like the jets game so as to avoid the wrath of tom. i don't think mcnally let any air out of the balls because they were all consistent with science. tom had nothing to do with it, but he is protecting jamstreski/mcnally.

 

[Clonamery]

Fencer is not saying that. He is simply repeating the new tones we are hearing in the headlines which is welcoming. I agree with that.

Think about what we had to listen to before: Brady cheated, Brady is arrogant, Brady knew, 2 psi, blah blah

Now we are beginning to hear: Brady may have cheated but the NFL is slamming him at historic levels for jaywalking.

Personally I admit that I am not the sharpest tool in the shed but I've spent an embarrassingly amount of time trying to figure out what happened. The average non-Pat fan will not do that. I started by taking Brady at his word. The average non-Pat fan will do that either. The average non-Pat fan listens to headlines, reads twitter bullet comments and focuses on regular football issues related to their team. Hearing these new tones with anti-NFL sentiments is a nice new development.

It's better but for a cure for original sin....try the science of Mother Nature.

 

[Fencer]

i don't think brady did anything wrong. i suspect mcnally went to the restroom to make sure none of the balls were 16 PSI like the jets game so as to avoid the wrath of tom. i don't think mcnally let any air out of thr balls because they were all consistent with science. tom had nothing to do with it, but he is protecting jamstreski\mcnally

In that theory, McNally violated the rules and Brady lied to cover up for him. That would actually fit the "little bit wrong" model.

 

[Fencer]

Fencer is not saying that. He is simply repeating the new tones we are hearing in the headlines which is welcoming. I agree with that.

Right.

There are views I find correct, views I find incorrect but reasonable/understandable/forgivable, and views I hate.

I started this thread to discuss some of the middle category.

For EOM, I gather, the middle category doesn't exist.

 

[Ring 6]

I won't give Buckley credit for having thought it through this far, but I personally think that the famous "vigorous rubbing" might have had the side effect of letting the Pats play with footballs a few tenths of a PSI below what the rules attempt to enforce.

That is legal.

 

[Tony2046]

It's better but for a cure for original sin....try the science of Mother Nature.

I have. I'm not sure you understood my post.

I have created charts, excel spread sheets etc... I know the average non-Pat fan is not going to go through that effort to figure out what happened. The NFL knew that. The NFL also created a nightmarish PR campaign with the hopes that Brady would fold in the end. That did not work.

The PR campaign started with damning text messages, 2 psi deflated leaks and incredibly blatant lies which were all hidden behind sealed documents and a thing called the IGL. This is now starting to sink in with non-Patriot fans.

We are now seeing tweets that are not necessarily pro Brady but none the less anti NFL which is nice to see.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

In that theory, McNally violated the rules and Brady lied to cover up for him. That would actually fit the "little bit wrong" model.

that is who Tom is though. he will not rat on one of his teammates or friends. i am totally fine with tom covering up for the equipment guys.

 

[Ring 6]

In that theory, McNally violated the rules and Brady lied to cover up for him. That would actually fit the "little bit wrong" model.

Why would you say Brady lied?
That us just not backed by anything

 

[Ring 6]

that is who Tom is though. he will not rat on one of his teammates or friends. i am totally fine with tom covering up for the equipment guys.

That would mean he is lying.

Why are people insisting on conceding what happened when in fact nothing did?

 

[Tony2046]

In that theory, McNally violated the rules and Brady lied to cover up for him. That would actually fit the "little bit wrong" model.

I think if anything happened it is as plausible that Brady was not aware. There isn't any text message to or from Brady regarding deflation practices. The only text messages that exist relating to pressure all call for a 12.5 - 13 psi range and to show the refs the rule book.

 

[Ring 6]

Actually, there's a sliver of middle ground.

Suppose, for example, that the Patriots delivered footballs that were at the lowest pressure limit, but which were ABOVE room temperature inside. Then they would have been sneakily evading the rules without actually breaking them.

I'm not saying that happened. In fact, it MIGHT have been ruled out by various experiments and analyses, scattershot though those all were; I haven't tried determine whether it has. But at least in theory, there is that sliver, so I'm inclined to be a bit lenient to the have-it-both-ways crowd.

No there isn't because the theory you just made up is legal.
On top if this tom Brady is in record under oath that psi was never an issue they discussed beyond reading rule and choosing a level.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

That would mean he is lying.

Why are people insisting on conceding what happened when in fact nothing did?

you don't know that absolutely nothing happened. we have no clue what mcnally did in the restroom - he could have been measuring the balls to make sure they were not 16 PSI like the jets game, could have been urinating, whatever. what is clear is that no air was let out of the balls.

 

[Ring 6]

Cuts both ways.

There WAS evasion on the parts of various Pats folks, which can be explained in at least four ways:

1. They were guilty of the accusations.
2. They were guilty of something else.
3. They weren't sure whether they were guilty, and were covering up.
4. They thought it would be helpful to be evasive, even though they were innocent.

#1 is hard to reconcile with the evidence.
If it was #4, they were very very incorrect.
That still leaves #2, #3 or the boneheaded version of #4.

I go with a hybrid of #3 on the part of Brady (fueled by the NFL's lies about its findings) and #4 on the part of multiple folks (Brady and McNally, for starters).

But if somebody instead goes with #2, I find it hard to call them an idiot just for that.

There was no evasion. What do you consider evasion? They made everyone available and answered every question.

 

[NashuaPats]

i don't think brady did anything wrong. i suspect mcnally went to the restroom to make sure none of the balls were 16 PSI like the jets game so as to avoid the wrath of tom. i don't think mcnally let any air out of thr balls because they were all consistent with science. tom had nothing to do with it, but he is protecting jamstreski\mcnally

Why do you think that is more likely than him just going to the bathroom to pee?

I always have to go back to the fact there was no reason to suspect wrong doing in the first place since the balls aligned with the gauge the ref said he used. The rest is overanalyzing perfectly innocent behavior led by a guy who pointed out locking a bathroom door as being suspicious.

 

[Ring 6]

you don't know that absolutely nothing happened. we have no clue what mcnally did in the restroom - he could have been measuring the balls to make sure they were not 16 PSI like the jets game, could have been urinating, whatever. what is clear is that no air was let out of the balls.

You are contradicting yourself. If no air was out of the balls then nothing happened.
A man urinating for 100 seconds is not even in the realm of proof.

 

[Tunescribe]

Why would you say Brady lied?
That us just not backed by anything

There are four types of naysayers around this case: (1) media types stirring the pot for attention, (2) Patriots haters, (3) naive folks who figure if the NFL is making so much noise it must be right to some degree, (4) those who think they're so smart they can discern lies and deception unsupported by fact.

They're all wrong, according to (A) what the evidence does/does not show, (B) facts pointing to a contrived witch hunt by the league office, and (C) everything Brady and the Patriots have said.

 

[Ring 6]

• The claim that "Deflator" had nothing to do w/ deflation, and that "going to ESPN" had nothing to do w/ cheating. I suspect they were actually joking references to exactly what they superficially sound like serious references to.
• Brady's lack of recollection about PSI-related conversations and/or conversations w/ Jastremski in general when they actually happened.
• The various and contradictory stories offered about Brady's exercise of his unquestionable right to change cell phones.

Wow. So people explaining their text is evasive?
Brady not remembering a conversation he describe as inconsequential is evasive?
Brady buying a new cell phone is evasive?
Evasive does not mean things that can be twisted into something there is no proof of to railroad someone.

 

[Tony2046]

Why do you think that is more likely than him just going to the bathroom to pee?

I always have to go back to the fact there was no reason to suspect wrong doing in the first place since the balls aligned with the gauge the ref said he used. The rest is overanalyzing perfectly innocent behavior led by a guy who pointed out locking a bathroom door as being suspicious.

But if Walt did use the gauge he thought he used then the Colts footballs would have been turned in under pressure of 13.0 as well. If we are going to believe Walt's recollection then we have to believe that the Colts footballs measured 13.0

Please do not misunderstand me. I am fully in Brady's camp and he should be complete exonerated and the Patriots should get all there picks back. That is what should happen.

We talk about the phone being a red herring but the Science or an aspect of the science in this case has been a red herring as well.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You are contradicting yourself. If no air was out of the balls then nothing happened.
A man urinating for 100 seconds is not even in the realm of proof.

measuring footballs without letting air out after referee inspection is illegal, even if tom didn't know about it. i am not saying this absolutely happened but it is one of several possibilities.

 

[Ring 6]

• The claim that "Deflator" had nothing to do w/ deflation, and that "going to ESPN" had nothing to do w/ cheating. I suspect they were actually joking references to exactly what they superficially sound like serious references to.
• Brady's lack of recollection about PSI-related conversations and/or conversations w/ Jastremski in general when they actually happened.
• The various and contradictory stories offered about Brady's exercise of his unquestionable right to change cell phones.

So you believe tom Brady had consistently lied.