Players we need to get

[PATSNUTme]

I'm going to admit that I'm more confused than ever about this draft, at this stage, as to what the Patriots will do in this draft.

However I'm not confused as to which two player they need to get. After going over this time and time again I'm totallly convinced that they need to get ether Willis or Harris.

Willis may be beyond what the Patriots want to pay to get him. He is the closest to a sure thing of any player at a positon of need. Harris is a step below Willis but we could be atleast a two down ILB for us. He,IMO, is the next to a sure thing at that position.

The other player I'd really like to see them get is Gattis. Give him a year working with Rodney and he will be our SS for a good number of years.

All the others that we draft would just be frosting on the cake, if they work out. But Willis or Harris are the "must get" players in this draft.

Now, I know that some(all) of you disagree with this. But I 'm right and you're wrong. :singing:

 

[TheBaronPatriot]

Harris has the speed to be a good coverage LB.
In college he didn't have to do much pass coverage because of the Michigan front 4...

4.53 speed translates well to dropping back into the hook zone which is what Pats MLB typically do, in addition to covering backs out of the backfield.

I think this skill can be taught to Harris.

 

[bakes781]

Are you suggesting that if we can't trade up to get Willis in the 1st round that we have to take Harris with one of our two 1st round picks?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

But I 'm right and you're wrong. :singing:

You forgot the obligatory "Have a nice day."

 

[chunkypony]

Are you suggesting that if we can't trade up to get Willis in the 1st round that we have to take Harris with one of our two 1st round picks?

If he is suggesting that, let me go on record by saying that I agree with him. Although I would prefer if we traded down to the second round and took harris. i think he is the one player in this draft I want more than anyone (besides maybe Posluszny, but I am biased there).

 

[PATSNUTme]

Are you suggesting that if we can't trade up to get Willis in the 1st round that we have to take Harris with one of our two 1st round picks?

I'd leave that up to BB/Scott. If they think that they can trade down a bit to get him, that's OK with me. I dont care where they get him. But they better get him, or else.

 

[bakes781]

If he is suggesting that, let me go on record by saying that I agree with him. Although I would prefer if we traded down to the second round and took harris. i think he is the one player in this draft I want more than anyone (besides maybe Posluszny, but I am biased there).

I understand the need at ILB & I'm also aware there are only a few prospects that fit the mold of a 3-4 ILB. I'm of the philosophy of getting the best value for each selection. If a trade down into the 2nd round can't be worked out then I think you need to take the BPA at #28. There are several DBs worth taking at that point which would also fill a need.

 

[chunkypony]

I understand the need at ILB & I'm also aware there are only a few prospects that fit the mold of a 3-4 ILB. I'm of the philosophy of getting the best value for each selection. If a trade down into the 2nd round can't be worked out then I think you need to take the BPA at #28. There are several DBs worth taking at that point which would also fill a need.

Ok, i see what you are saying, but in my head, I believe we are going to be drafting a DB at #24 (obviously I should have stated that), so if we already had drafted a DB at #24, it isn't as great a need at #28. so I am going to take the best available LB at #28, and Harris value isn't that high, so then I would try to trade down. If this cannot be worked out, then I would have no choice but to take harris at #28. If a scenario like that happened, I would be a pretty happy camper.

 

[bakes781]

Ok, i see what you are saying, but in my head, I believe we are going to be drafting a DB at #24 (obviously I should have stated that), so if we already had drafted a DB at #24, it isn't as great a need at #28. so I am going to take the best available LB at #28, and Harris value isn't that high, so then I would try to trade down. If this cannot be worked out, then I would have no choice but to take harris at #28. If a scenario like that happened, I would be a pretty happy camper.

Well at #24 the only positions I would rule out are QB/K/P. I think taking the best player regardless of position is the way to go. Robert Meachem, for example could quite possibly fall to us at #24 & I would take him over Chris Houston or Brandon Meriweather. In that scenario taking a player of need becomes more imperative at #28. The odds of a Houston or Meriweather falling to #28 is greater than a Robert Meachem IMO. Furthermore by taking the BPA at #24 you increase the likelyhood of teams interested in trading up to take #28 IMO.

 

[chunkypony]

Well at #24 the only positions I would rule out are QB/K/P. I think taking the best player regardless of position is the way to go. Robert Meachem, for example could quite possibly fall to us at #24 & I would take him over Chris Houston or Brandon Meriweather. In that scenario taking a player of need becomes more imperative at #28. The odds of a Houston or Meriweather falling to #28 is greater than a Robert Meachem IMO. Furthermore by taking the BPA at #24 you increase the likelyhood of teams interested in trading up to take #28 IMO.

Ok, its clear that we are wokring on two separate draft theories. I am drafting for need, while you are drafting for BPA. If the Pats draft a WR with #24, I might throw up. I think that DB and LB and far and away our biggest need, with WR a distant third. If there is no trade down from #28, IMHO we need to spend our two first round picks on our two positions of need. I completely understand where you are coming from with the BPA theory, but I subscribe to the need theory.

 

[sebman2112]

Some consider Harris to be the best 3-4 ILB in the entire draft, so I can see the value at 28. I had NE trading 24th to Tampa Bay and taking Harris at 35th overall, in my ideal mock draft.

I wish NE could somehow get Woodley and Harris

 

[chunkypony]

I wish NE could somehow get Woodley and Harris

Drool.....

Without sounding too greedy, I would take Puz and Harris in the first, and woodley in the third, with DeOssie in the fourth. But i just have LB lust at this point.

The draft needs to get here already.

 

[sebman2112]

Ok, its clear that we are wokring on two separate draft theories. I am drafting for need, while you are drafting for BPA. If the Pats draft a WR with #24, I might throw up. I think that DB and LB and far and away our biggest need, with WR a distant third. If there is no trade down from #28, IMHO we need to spend our two first round picks on our two positions of need. I completely understand where you are coming from with the BPA theory, but I subscribe to the need theory.

Really I think you should subscribe to both. Meaning, best player available at a position of need. Now to be more specific it should be best player available at a 2008 position of need. This means I'm drafting for 2008 full time starters, and 2007 rotational players/backups. In 2008 the biggest needs could be LB, S, CB, WR, RB

 

[PATSNUTme]

I understand the need at ILB & I'm also aware there are only a few prospects that fit the mold of a 3-4 ILB. I'm of the philosophy of getting the best value for each selection. If a trade down into the 2nd round can't be worked out then I think you need to take the BPA at #28. There are several DBs worth taking at that point which would also fill a need.

So, lets fast forward to the season. Couldn't trade so we took the BPA who was a WR. Who do we play at ILB? Tedy and Vrabes? Tedy and AD? And if something should happen to Tedy?

I think that we are all set and can go with the players that we have at every other position, except ILB. Maybe Harris can prove he was worth #28. Maybe the BPA at #28 will prove that he was really a #50+.

Beside we don't know who the Patriots have as BPA. It may be very different than the consensus BPA.

 

[sebman2112]

So, lets fast forward to the season. Couldn't trade so we took the BPA who was a WR. Who do we play at ILB? Tedy and Vrabes? Tedy and AD? And if something should happen to Tedy?

I think that we are all set and can go with the players that we have at every other position, except ILB. Maybe Harris can prove he was worth #28. Maybe the BPA at #28 will prove that he was really a #50+.

Beside we don't know who the Patriots have as BPA. It may be very different than the consensus BPA.

Well, I think it's safe to say they'll be drafting at least one ILB in this draft. I don't know if it will be in the first round or the fifth, but I think they'll draft at least one ILB in this draft. I think they might draft two LB's in this draft and they'll likely pickup two UDFA's to bring into camp.

 

[bakes781]

So, lets fast forward to the season. Couldn't trade so we took the BPA who was a WR. Who do we play at ILB? Tedy and Vrabes? Tedy and AD? And if something should happen to Tedy?

I think that we are all set and can go with the players that we have at every other position, except ILB. Maybe Harris can prove he was worth #28. Maybe the BPA at #28 will prove that he was really a #50+.

Beside we don't know who the Patriots have as BPA. It may be very different than the consensus BPA.

The year to draft a LB was last offseason. I think the Patriots made a mistake not drafting one on day 1. That was easily the deepest position in the draft last year. We're playing with fire no doubt, but generally speaking drafting soley for need weakens your team. Throw Meachem into last year's draft & he's easily the #1 WR IMO. If Meachem pans out as he should then they could deal Stallworth away for an ILB. They have other options is all I'm saying.

I'm sure their list is different, but the consensus of how it should play out is usually fairly acurate. As of right now David Harris is considered a mid-late 2nd round value.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Well, I think it's safe to say they'll be drafting at least one ILB in this draft. I don't know if it will be in the first round or the fifth, but I think they'll draft at least one ILB in this draft. I think they might draft two LB's in this draft and they'll likely pickup two UDFA's to bring into camp.

You are right about that. And in other years, I would be not concerned about which round or who it was they drafted.

This year is different. They don't have time to develope a convert from OLB or DE. The need is now and there are only two that can fill that need right off. Willis or Harris. All the others have big ????'s.

Sure, pick up Bradley or DeOssie later and develope them.

But, I'm sure that they know that and are always planning ahead (Monty Biesel).

 

[Ochmed Jones]

For the past 4 years, everybody and his mother has called for BB to take a LB early in the draft. Yet BB has not used a first rounder on a LB over those drafts.

That tells me that either a.) BB is comfortable with the talent he has at LB or B.) No one in those drafts (ie: Ryans, Lawson, Thurman, etc.) has excited him enough for him to pull the trigger on the deal.

The closest we've seen him to getting excited about a LB is a line written in Patriot reign about BB having written Vilma's name on a piece of paper.

This defense finished in the top 3 in points allowed last year and came within a minute or so of the superbowl with basically 3 and 1/3 LBs. (I'm only counting TBC as a third of a player because he was a decent pass rusher, but sucked in coverage and as a run stopper.)

However there is no denying that all year we got toasted in the seams and on the outside in the flats. Thomas should address the outside flats. That leaves the need for a coverage ILB (like Phifer used to be) for the middle-deep seams and a true center fielding safety for the deep seam.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

For the past 4 years, everybody and his mother has called for BB to take a LB early in the draft. Yet BB has not used a first rounder on a LB over those drafts.

It's more than that . . . in 32 picks Belichick has made in the first four rounds since joining the Patriots, not one has been a LB - even though LB accounts for 18% of his starting lineup.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

For the past 4 years, everybody and his mother has called for BB to take a LB early in the draft. Yet BB has not used a first rounder on a LB over those drafts.

That tells me that either a.) BB is comfortable with the talent he has at LB or B.) No one in those drafts (ie: Ryans, Lawson, Thurman, etc.) has excited him enough for him to pull the trigger on the deal.

How much of this is cause, though, and how much effect?

For example--the Pats had pick #21 last year. By that point, four LBs were already off the board (Hawk, Sims, Greenway, Carpenter)--although the last two had come off #17 and #18, so the Pats *could* have traded up if they really wanted one of them.

But, for the sake of argument, suppose that Green Bay had traded their #5 pick for Matt Cassel (no criticism here, please, this is just an example), and couldn't find a partner to trade down. Would he have taken Hawk or Sims?