which TE do you prefer?

[Patriot Missile]

If ASJ is there at 62 I'm ok with it. Maybe even Amaro. I'm ok with a small trade up for Ebron too.

If nothing come to fruition then I'd be ok with Mayos binky Rodgers or even Manx sleeper Whitlock later in the draft. Lyerla in the 6th would be low risk considering his talent and the low round value. Ok with Gilmore in the 5th and beyond as well.

Lot of oks in is post. Guess I just want to see them address the position with someone who can contribute to the offense while sealing other holes on the roster.

 

[mgteich]

If even we want to run the 2 TE set 1/3 of the time or less, or not at all, we need a top TE. We just cannot count on Gronk being there fro all the games. And IF we have that second top TE, then we will be more likely to run the 2 TE offense.

I agree that 4 TE's is unlikely. After all, we need to carry 3 QB's. While a 4th TE is possible, I suspect that an additional player at one of the other positions is more likely. The 24 are 3 QB, 6 WR, 3 RB, 1 RB/FB, 3 TE, 8 OL.

So, for me, I want one of the top 5 TE's. One of the binkies is fine later. We always need competition. For example, I think it is clear that Josh prefers to have a FB rather than a 4th TE.

This thread became very interesting the moment someone brought out the possibility of whether Josh is actually committed to the idea of a 2 TE offense as something we want to do a significant % of the time. I had never thought of that possibility before. Understand I love the 2 TE concept. I think it has a lot of advantages, and makes it difficult on defenses, especially when it isn't 3rd and long. (why would be a topic for its own thread)

But that would explain why the Pats, who are clearly in great need at the TE position, never went after the top TE FA possibilities like Daniels and Chandler. Prior to this thread, I would have thought that keeping 4 TE's on the roster was a given. Now I'm not so sure. Now it might be Gronk, Hooman and a rookie might be all we keep and guys like Williams are just camp fodder.

Obviously we will know a lot more by the time we open camp. What the Pats do in the meantime at TE, will tell us a lot about how they plan to use their TE's. Up to now most of us assumed that we'd go TE with one of our first 2 picks. But based on this thread one has to wonder if any of these guys are worth such a commitment of draft capital. I was all on Niklas before hearing about his concussion issues. Even Ebron and his 11% drop rate makes you wonder.

We might have to face the possibility that this is a weak TE draft class, and the so called top 5 are all going to be over valued because they are just the best of a bad lot. At any rate I was a lot more stoked about adding a top 5 TE before this thread than now. Clearly I have to face the fact that every pick carries a lot of risk, no matter where you make it. There are no sure things, and drafting well is HARD.

As to the OP - I guess I'd go with Niklas and getting him a better helmet

 

[Mike the Brit]

Agreed, I've said that multiple times. O'Brien was the one who loved TE, we heard it when he took over from Josh and then it was implemented. Supposedly that's what the shouting match between O'Brien and Moss was about on the flight from Miami - not just that Moss didn't catch a pass but that the TE was the new emphasis of the offense not Moss. Fast forward to this offseason, we need a TE and barely look at them, we have good quantity, if not quality, at WR and sign a guy a little above journeyman when we already have a good number of WR.

They may surprise me, it wouldn't be the first (or second or third) time but I think Josh is much more interested in finding the next Demarius Thomas than the next Rob Gronkowski.

Interesting post! But that raises the question: what happens later? After all, draft picks only show their best after a season or two. And who would expect McD to still be around in the medium term? Should the Patriots be drafting to reflect the preferences of their current OC who will, in all likelihood, soon be a Head Coach?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Always beleaved Josh McD liked 3 WR spred more then 2x TE. And with that in mind, then i doubt BB and Crew values a need at TE as high as the rest of us. I fear they would be ok with a TE with 62 or lower, guessing CJF would be fine

I think this is 100% accurate. However I think both are smart enough to understand that TE's with the right physical makeup create mismatches that 3 WR sets can't.

With the proliferation of the spread offense, defenses are getting smaller and more athletic. This is the perfect scenario for multiple TE formations when you can run the ball.

Defenses get small to cover the TE's, then you run it. Defenses try to cover the TE's with LBers, then you pass it.

If we could get Amaro and Niklus in this draft, then we can have an extremely dynamic offense with multiple options and formations regardless of what happens with Gronks recovery.

Plus TE's that can get into the deep seam create tons of room for slot receivers to work underneath.

 

[varjao]

Josh McDaniels needs to draft looking for his QB strengths, not his personal preferences.

 

[manxman2601]

Josh McDaniels needs to draft looking for his QB strengths, not his personal preferences.

I think this QB is pretty flexible. He's been productive in two TE offences and previous McDaniels' spread offences.

 

[OhExaulted1]

I'm curious why you think this. I think the opposite. There are probably more players off BB's board than any other board in the NFL, it's just that the reason why those players are off his board aren't always clear.

Well, it's like this. All to often I see posts here referring to this player isn't a Patriot type, or Kraft will overrule BB's choice and so on and so forth. If that's true then why bother having a guy like Kenny Britt in for a looksee given his history? Did BB write Hernandez off? How about Mallet? Or Dennard. And don't even get me started on FA's like Haynesworth or trading for the Ocho's, Dillon's and Moss' of the world.

Sometimes I really think this holier-than-thou the Patriots only take squeaky clean alter boys mythology that's generated here and within the media is just that. A myth. Bryan Cox was a Patriot type player, except before he actually became a Patriot. Guys here have made mistakes and didn't get the immediate axe (Kaczur, Faulk, Law, ect).

Point is we spend all this time believing BB has such a rigid philosophy of this expected moral high ground, yet the evidence points to the contrary time and time again. I believe BB recognizes people make mistakes in real life and that doesn't necessarily mean they're removed from consideration altogether. He gives people second chances. If Lyerla has been removed from Bills draft board I think it has more to do with wether or not he thinks the guy can help this team, not because of some unproven righteous boundry that everyone seems to have drawn up on his behalf.

 

[Brady6]

In order of preference...

1. ASJ
2. Niklas
3. Amaro
4. Fiedorowicz

Of course, I would love Ebron too and he would probably vault to the top of the list, but he should be long gone by then. I was very anti-CJ up until a few weeks ago and now I'm slowly starting to come around on him. ASJ is still my favorite attainable TE in this draft, though.

Ebron stock is dropping a bit I have seen a few mocks recently with him being selected at #29 by the Patriots. I agree it is likely he will be gone in the top 20 however.

I agree with your list completely. I would draft Larry Webster in with #198 and convert him to TE and I think he would be an excellent Flex TE.

 

[dryheat44]

Well, it's like this. All to often I see posts here referring to this player isn't a Patriot type, or Kraft will overrule BB's choice and so on and so forth. If that's true then why bother having a guy like Kenny Britt in for a looksee given his history? Did BB write Hernandez off? How about Mallet? Or Dennard. And don't even get me started on FA's like Haynesworth or trading for the Ocho's, Dillon's and Moss' of the world.

Sometimes I really think this holier-than-thou the Patriots only take squeaky clean alter boys mythology that's generated here and within the media is just that. A myth. Bryan Cox was a Patriot type player, except before he actually became a Patriot. Guys here have made mistakes and didn't get the immediate axe (Kaczur, Faulk, Law, ect).

Point is we spend all this time believing BB has such a rigid philosophy of this expected moral high ground, yet the evidence points to the contrary time and time again. I believe BB recognizes people make mistakes in real life and that doesn't necessarily mean they're removed from consideration altogether. He gives people second chances. If Lyerla has been removed from Bills draft board I think it has more to do with wether or not he thinks the guy can help this team, not because of some unproven righteous boundry that everyone seems to have drawn up on his behalf.

There are things you can forgive, and things you can't. Beating your girlfriend is one of those things you can't, as we learned last decade. I'm guessing that even without the quitting on the team, even without the drug use, the dismissing of the Newtown parents as "liars", the same Newtown that he Patriots organization has raised funds for and made outreach missions to, is unforgiveable.

A team of Eagle Scouts isn't going to win. But let's face it -- Lyerla has some serious mental issues. I mean clinical mental issues. He's the kind of guy you read about holed up in a Motel 6 in a Police standoff in a year or two. Why would anybody want to invite that mess into the organization? Is he going to win games by himself? Is he some holy combination of Jim Brown, Jerry Rice, and **** Butkus? No. He's a pretty good tight end.

I'll pass. I am interested in seeing what Chip Kelly will do.

 

[manxman2601]

Well, it's like this. All to often I see posts here referring to this player isn't a Patriot type, or Kraft will overrule BB's choice and so on and so forth. If that's true then why bother having a guy like Kenny Britt in for a looksee given his history? Did BB write Hernandez off? How about Mallet? Or Dennard. And don't even get me started on FA's like Haynesworth or trading for the Ocho's, Dillon's and Moss' of the world.

Sometimes I really think this holier-than-thou the Patriots only take squeaky clean alter boys mythology that's generated here and within the media is just that. A myth. Bryan Cox was a Patriot type player, except before he actually became a Patriot. Guys here have made mistakes and didn't get the immediate axe (Kaczur, Faulk, Law, ect).

Point is we spend all this time believing BB has such a rigid philosophy of this expected moral high ground, yet the evidence points to the contrary time and time again. I believe BB recognizes people make mistakes in real life and that doesn't necessarily mean they're removed from consideration altogether. He gives people second chances. If Lyerla has been removed from Bills draft board I think it has more to do with wether or not he thinks the guy can help this team, not because of some unproven righteous boundry that everyone seems to have drawn up on his behalf.

I agree that the criteria that BB applies to prospective Patriots isn't as cut and dried as some believe and he's certainly not interested in a team of angels. But nevertheless, BB has a strict criteria for the draft focused on roster fit, fitting in to the locker room, learning the playbook etc.

 

[OhExaulted1]

There are things you can forgive, and things you can't. Beating your girlfriend is one of those things you can't, as we learned last decade. I'm guessing that even without the quitting on the team, even without the drug use, the dismissing of the Newtown parents as "liars", the same Newtown that he Patriots organization has raised funds for and made outreach missions to, is unforgiveable.

A team of Eagle Scouts isn't going to win. But let's face it -- Lyerla has some serious mental issues. I mean clinical mental issues. He's the kind of guy you read about holed up in a Motel 6 in a Police standoff in a year or two. Why would anybody want to invite that mess into the organization? Is he going to win games by himself? Is he some holy combination of Jim Brown, Jerry Rice, and **** Butkus? No. He's a pretty good tight end.

I'll pass. I am interested in seeing what Chip Kelly will do.

As an outsider looking in, I would tend to agree. But if BB pulls the trigger on him late would it really shock you? I know I wouldn't be all that surprised. And we sorely need a pretty good TE.

Someones going to give this kid a shot and if he toes the line and becomes a solid player without any more BS, then 31 other teams will be looking back with regret. I doubt he's the next AH or Ray Carruth or even Christian Peter, who played in 81 games in 6 seasons as a 5th Rder if that's who your referring to.

 

[OhExaulted1]

I agree that the criteria that BB applies to prospective Patriots isn't as cut and dried as some believe and he's certainly not interested in a team of angels. But nevertheless, BB has a strict criteria for the draft focused on roster fit, fitting in to the locker room, learning the playbook etc.

This is more of what I was getting at. Sometimes you can't fix stupid. If he wises up and shuts his yap and becomes a film room junkie he might do just fine. I'm in no way ignoring the risk factor though, and it certainly exists.

 

[patchick]

Well, it's like this. All to often I see posts here referring to this player isn't a Patriot type, or Kraft will overrule BB's choice and so on and so forth. If that's true then why bother having a guy like Kenny Britt in for a looksee given his history? Did BB write Hernandez off? How about Mallet? Or Dennard. And don't even get me started on FA's like Haynesworth or trading for the Ocho's, Dillon's and Moss' of the world.

Sometimes I really think this holier-than-thou the Patriots only take squeaky clean alter boys mythology that's generated here and within the media is just that. A myth. Bryan Cox was a Patriot type player, except before he actually became a Patriot. Guys here have made mistakes and didn't get the immediate axe (Kaczur, Faulk, Law, ect).

I've never thought the "Patriots Way" was about drafting boy scouts. It's about football character. Aqib Talib was an off-field problem but smart and dedicated football player. And as soon as Randy Moss the odd duck turned into a Randy Moss who wasn't focused on what's good for the team, he was gone.

Lyerla was not a popular guy with his coaches and teammates. He had tons of athletic talent, but played sloppy and didn't refine his skills, and left the team under weird circumstances. So even if (and it's a big if) you could look past the signs that he's genuinely unstable, he doesn't look like a Patriot to me.

 

[meatface]

Can I just hope that Eric Ebron falls?

 

[ripatsfan91]

I actually don't want Amaro at all.. and if Ebron falls to 20/21 I would be willing to trade up for him.

 

[supafly]

As to the OP - I guess I'd go with Niklas and getting him a better helmet

How significant is his concussion history, Ken? I do remember hearing something about it, but I wasn't paying as much attention as I am now.

For what it's worth, I've been on Niklas since the Michigan/Notre Dame game in September. I really think we need a top tier TE in the draft. We did have a free agent visit with Owen Daniels in Foxborough, but Belichick either didn't want to pay him that much, or had some injury concerns. That tells me that we're taking someone in the draft, but who knows where?

It better not be anywhere lower than Fiedorowicz or Lynch in the 4th round, since we have 2 picks there.

 

[patfanken]

How significant is his concussion history, Ken? I do remember hearing something about it, but I wasn't paying as much attention as I am now. It better not be anywhere lower than Fiedorowicz or Lynch in the 4th round, since we have 2 picks there.

Actually Sup, I have no idea. The first I had heard of it was in some thread on the Draft board. It could be serious, or it could be nothing. The ideal situation would be that it's nothing, but the rumors will drop him to 62.

You know at the start of the off season I would have thought for sure that the Pats would add at least 2 new guys to the TE roster. But as things progressed, I'm starting to wonder if the Pats only keep 3 TE's on the roster this season. If so, only one new TE will be coming aboard, and I hope it will be at least one of the top 5 guys we've been discussing.

BTW- Its universally conceded that Ebron is going to be the first TE selected, and probably going in the top 15. I don't get it. Doesn't anyone else have a problem with a "receiving" TE who has an 11% drop rate in college? It's not like its going to get any easier to catch passes in the NFL.

I understand that he can obviously improve that number, I'm just wondering why I never hear anyone asking any questions about it. What's your thoughts on Ebron

 

[supafly]

I personally haven't seen enough of Ebron to give you an honest opinion one way or another, other than the "expert" consensus that he's definitely the best on the board. I suppose his size and talent would definitely put him in the top 2-3 in my opinion, but again...that may not solve his 11% drop rate either. I'm guessing that the current Gronks and Grahams of the world are pushing guys like Ebron higher than ever, especially when some feel that the talent drops off after the initial 3-4-5 TEs are selected.

I do know one thing, I really want to see the position addressed--and with a high pick to boot.

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Dream Scenario is an ASJ and CJF double dip, but if I could only chose one I'd side with ASJ.

 

[supafly]

Dream Scenario is an ASJ and CJF double dip, but if I could only chose one I'd side with ASJ.

Boy that would be nice. I'd even take Lynch in the 4th-5th to pair with one of them and still be quite happy.