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Logan Ryan possibly moving to safety?

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Some comments on the comments:

1. Kudos to the Herald for inciting a great thread. I love it when we get into this kind of football discussion. Thus far the back and forth has been eminently both entertaining and informative.

2. Jeers to the Herald for once again attempting to imply that they have some inside source that's feeding them info. BS. SacPete was the first to question it, and he's right. In what world would the organization that is the most closed-mouthed in the league, suddenly tell a reporter how they are going to use their personnel?

3. Its just another example of the Herald making it up as they go along. At least this time they chose an interesting topic.

4. Forget about thinking about Browner as a SS. The simple fact is that he's not any good in space. And while he'd be a better physical presence than Gregory at the spot, he'd be a major downgrade in coverage.

That's not to say that he'd never line up in the middle on occasion. But Browner is here to play press physical man or zone coverage with help over the top.....period. What makes him so potentially valuable, is WHO he plays press man week to week will depend on who we play.

5. Contrary to the article, I don't see Browner as taking Dennard's role as the outside CB. Dennard was progressing very nicely last season, getting better with every game. Its actually surprising how much bigger and physical he plays than his actual size.

No I see Browner as the "wildcard" BB will pick Browner's best matchup each week depending on who they play, and when they need to play press/man or match up zones, that's where he'll play. One week it might be a big outside WR. Another week it might be the TE, etc

6. In this day and age you can't have too many DB who can play against the pass. With every year position designations like SS and FS become less and less meaningful. In today's NFL the team that can put out the best DB's regardless of "position" is the team that will be most effective against the pass.

7. One of the best ways to defend against the pass these days is to disguise secondary coverage. That's the reason BB has been loathe to flop safeties with formation, simply because that's the easiest way for the QB to determine coverage. Being able to flood the secondary with good coverage people regardless of what their positions are stated on the program will be a huge advantage.

Being able to successfully disguise their coverages is the key reason why the Pats have been consistently at the top of the league in picks, even though they have had sub par personnel back there for the most part.

8. I doubt very much that McCourty will be anything but our "FS". Because of his range and rare skill set, he is the guy who allows all the aggressiveness in front of him to happen. You need an "eraser". A guy with the range to help out on those times when DB's get beat. The guy to turns long TD's into 20 yd gains.

Remember BB is at heart, the ultimate bend but don't break coach. "Big plays" are his biggest fear. So why would he take the guy with the most range in the league and put him "inside the box" to put a guy without nearly the same range in his place. It makes no sense at all. Typical Herald logic.

9. I am very excited about this year. For the first time in the new era of the NFL passing game (post Polian rules), the Pats have the size and numbers to really compete against the best passing attacks in the league.

Think about this. Looking at this skill sets and depth of this secondary, how many of the 2011 secondary who made it to the superbowl and played well, would even make this team, let alone start.

24 Kyle Arrington CB
31 Sergio Brown FS
25 Patrick Chung FS/SS
44 James Ihedigbo SS
23 Nate Jones CB/FS
32 Devin McCourty CB/FS
27 Antwaun Molden CB
29 Sterling Moore CB/FS
41 Malcolm Williams CB

Only McCourty and Arrington are still on the team, and only Ihedigbo has had even moderate success after he left, and it wasn't enough for his team to want to keep him. Remember this was the year where Julian Edelman played a significant amount of time on defense

10. I think it would behoove us all if we started to forget about the old position designations like FS, and SS, as well as looking for players who can be the next Ty Law and Rodney Harrison in our minds. Those are players who played in a literally a different league, which required different skill sets to succeed.

DB's in this era face a myriad of differing issues that Rodney and Ty only rarely had to face. Today EVERY team will have a couple 4.4 and 4.5 guys who are 6'3 and above. Law and Harrison rarely had to play against a "move TE" In retrospect Dallas Clark was really the first of his kind. Now the league is rife with them. Back in the day, for the most part TE's were just adjuncts to the passing game, not the focus.

No this is a new age, and the Pats, for the first time, in that age have the size quickness and depth to compete with the best pass offenses in the league, and if that doesn't get your juices flowing then.....


I'm good with Edelman over Arrington at the slot
 
When Ryan was drafted, my initial assumption was that he would be moved to safety. He seemed a lot like McCourty, in that he was at his best when the play was in front of him, which was why he could excel as both a zone corner and as a safety.

A lot of scouting reports basically said that Ryan was McCourty minus a significant amount of speed. This is why he was far more prone to getting beaten deep at Rutgers, and also why I wasn't psyched about the pick when it was made. Seemed to me like the Pats were loading up on corners who could play press man coverage, and Ryan isn't that guy. I didn't expect much from him, so I was very, very pleasantly surprised with how he performed as a rookie.

Still, I gotta admit that the idea of having McCourty and McCourty-lite at safety is pretty appealing. Because Ryan lacks McCourty's range, I would think that in coverages that called for a safety to play centerfield, that would be McCourty whenever possible. Sizewise, they're pretty much identical. I wouldn't want either one of them covering TEs, but I'm betting that we'll see Browner drawing that assignment whenever the Pats match up against a good receiving TE anyway.

Definitely an intriguing possibility, although the CB depth for the first four games would be pretty bad. Two safeties who can play CB is a pretty slick weapon to have. On the other hand, it also means that we can pretty much give up on the idea of having an enforcer at safety if it pans out.
 
Ryan moving to safety makes some sense, as he has the Arrington/McCourty issue of struggling to cover when guys get him to turn his hips on deep routes.


I don't know about having a pair of 190 lb safeties, though. New England would actually be playing with much larger corners (205/220) than safeties.
 
Ryan moving to safety makes some sense, as he has the Arrington/McCourty issue of struggling to cover when guys get him to turn his hips on deep routes.


I don't know about having a pair of 190 lb safeties, though.

Get stronger at DT and play Hightower in front of them and it makes more sense. That'll at least help keep the safeties clean in run support.
 
Dont like this. Like where Mccourty is now
 
Get stronger at DT and play Hightower in front of them and it makes more sense. That'll at least help keep the safeties clean in run support.

OTOH, having a true SS who can function in run support and zone coverage in a Cover 3 scheme would help to compensate for more aggressive, penetrating DTs. There are some tradeoffs to be made. Not saying what the answer is.
 
OTOH, having a true SS who can function in run support and zone coverage in a Cover 3 scheme would help to compensate for more aggressive, penetrating DTs. There are some tradeoffs to be made. Not saying what the answer is.

Well the bigger DTs track better with BB's M.O. But I appreciate your point. I certainly like the idea of that fly around the field hybrid safety/linebacker. I am less thrilled by the prospect of a thumper safety only player.
 
Ryan moving to safety makes some sense, as he has the Arrington/McCourty issue of struggling to cover when guys get him to turn his hips on deep routes.


I don't know about having a pair of 190 lb safeties, though. New England would actually be playing with much larger corners (205/220) than safeties.

Last season we played McCourty and Gregory; this is their height and weight from their combines.

Gregory
Height – 5104
Weight – 185

McCourty
Height – 5106
Weight – 193

Ryan
Height – 5111
Weight – 191

With Ryan at safety, they are actually bigger than they were last season.
 
Well the bigger DTs track better with BB's M.O. But I appreciate your point. I certainly like the idea of that fly around the field hybrid safety/linebacker. I am less thrilled by the prospect of a thumper safety only player.

Last season we played McCourty and Gregory; this is their height and weight from their combines.

Gregory
Height – 5104
Weight – 185

McCourty
Height – 5106
Weight – 193

Ryan
Height – 5111
Weight – 191

With Ryan at safety, they are actually bigger than they were last season.

For the sake of argument, the other safeties on the team height and weight are below.

Harmon
Height – 6002
Weight – 196

T Wilson
Height – 5116
Weight – 205

If the 5Lb difference between Harmon and Ryan makes a major difference, we can simply have him eat a big meal before every game.
 
Well the bigger DTs track better with BB's M.O. But I appreciate your point. I certainly like the idea of that fly around the field hybrid safety/linebacker. I am less thrilled by the prospect of a thumper safety only player.

That's part of why I like Exum at safety so much. He could be a thumper, not not a "thumper safety only".
 
I don't know why you'd want to move Dmac out of what he does now. I'm not a FS/SS guy I'm more in favor of just starting your two best safeties. Even if it's two SS like Pittsburgh does(although I'd rather have 2 FS but Pittsburgh did have success with that few years back before Troy and Clark got old). I feel like Arrington at safety would be a friggin nightmare. I feel like he would get lost out in coverage on his own. I wouldn't put him anywhere but the slot. Putting Ryan out there with Dmac and have them both acting as FS might be our best bet. I'd like to see Gregory back on vet minimum for training camp & preseason as insurance. At least he could be helping the youngsters, he seems like a smart dude who just isn't all that talented.
 
I don't know why you'd want to move Dmac out of what he does now. I'm not a FS/SS guy I'm more in favor of just starting your two best safeties. Even if it's two SS like Pittsburgh does(although I'd rather have 2 FS but Pittsburgh did have success with that few years back before Troy and Clark got old). I feel like Arrington at safety would be a friggin nightmare. I feel like he would get lost out in coverage on his own. I wouldn't put him anywhere but the slot. Putting Ryan out there with Dmac and have them both acting as FS might be our best bet. I'd like to see Gregory back on vet minimum for training camp & preseason as insurance. At least he could be helping the youngsters, he seems like a smart dude who just isn't all that talented.

The Patriots play mostly cover 2 man with a left and right safety; the safeties essentially do the same things.

 
Jimmie Ward is perfect for this defensive philosophy. Come on BB just do it!


He won't though.
 
Until camp starts, Guregian's article along with this thread can go into the trash, shortly followed by a lit match.
 
Does anyone see the pats playing just a 1 deep S like the Jets did with Revis?

If he can lock down 1 side..i can defiantly seem them doing it.
 
Jimmie Ward is perfect for this defensive philosophy. Come on BB just do it!


He won't though.

This sort of idea is why I'd been mentioning Chris Clemons as a possible safety signing for a coverage-based safety pair. Maybe the team hates his tackling too much, or maybe there's another issue with the guy that's giving him a league-wide problem, because he's still on the market.
 
This sort of idea is why I'd been mentioning Chris Clemons as a possible safety signing for a coverage-based safety pair. Maybe the team hates his tackling too much, or maybe there's another issue with the guy that's giving him a league-wide problem, because he's still on the market.

Starting to think its the latter, he's one of the better cover guys yet I can't recall hearing a peep about im in over 2 weeks.
 
The Patriots play mostly cover 2 man with a left and right safety; the safeties essentially do the same things.


The Pats played a ton of Cover 1 last season, and are likely to play a lot more this season (including Cover 3 and Cover 7 variants) with Revis and Browner on board. Richard Hill claimed that the Pats ran more man coverage than any team in the NFL in 2013, though I don't know what data he had to back up that assertion. In general, Cover 2 has decreased significantly in the NFL, as Andy Benoit noted 6 months ago:

The once vaunted Cover 2 pass coverage is on the verge of extinction | The MMQB with Peter King
 
The Pats played a ton of Cover 1 last season, and are likely to play a lot more this season (including Cover 3 and Cover 7 variants) with Revis and Browner on board. Richard Hill claimed that the Pats ran more man coverage than any team in the NFL in 2013, though I don't know what data he had to back up that assertion. In general, Cover 2 has decreased significantly in the NFL, as Andy Benoit noted 6 months ago:

The once vaunted Cover 2 pass coverage is on the verge of extinction | The MMQB with Peter King

I am definitely going to be watching the all-22 next season every week. It's great to see images like Brady6 posted there.

And I agree on the cover-1 looks. My recollections are certainly predominantly of McCourty deep and Gregory playing much shallower.
 
A lot of comment here overlooking the fact that bb plays left and right safeties not strong and free safeties.

I included that in my original post, Andy.
 
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