mg's March 15 Plan

[ClevTrev]

How do we know what we have in Mills, he was essentially "red shirted" last year, he has never even dressed?

Yep, my thoughts exactly. The guys was clearly a development player even before he was injured, as the team had Graham, Watson, and Thomas coming in to TE. The plan was to create an HBack position or use Mills in certain situations calling for a type of back with his skill set. His references are sterling. Let's at least give the guy a chance now that he's healthy to work into that position, as he's now got an experience and knowledge advantage over any rookie. If he proves himself in TC, then it's another win for the team.

 

[Fantasic4x50x54x59x55]

For most of the season he was, but not during the final few games, and in the playoffs. Hawkins got burned against the Jets, missed tackles against the chargers, blew coverages, and missed easy tackles against the colts. As I said go watch the game film. All that being said, I'm still fine with him as a backup.

:wha: I'd Really like some more direct proof, some more plays to disect, everything Ive seen on the guy proves he is solid. He obviously isn't your ideal starter, he doesnt have the size and speed, but his fundamentals-knowledge-and tackling abilities surley make up for it. I thought Hawkins was the bright spot all season along with Samuel in the secondary (hobbs came on during the playoffs/final season games)... I mean Maroney didn't do much in the playoffs/2nd half..Should we write him off too?

 

[sebman2112]

:wha: I'd Really like some more direct proof, some more plays to disect, everything Ive seen on the guy proves he is solid. He obviously isn't your ideal starter, he doesnt have the size and speed, but his fundamentals-knowledge-and tackling abilities surley make up for it. I thought Hawkins was the bright spot all season along with Samuel in the secondary (hobbs came on during the playoffs/final season games)... I mean Maroney didn't do much in the playoffs/2nd half..Should we write him off too?

There's a difference Maroney is a developing player, and Hawkins on the back end of his career. You expect rookies to struggle at times, especially when they're injured.

 

[Fantasic4x50x54x59x55]

i'll give you that.. but still...I'd Like to see some plays to look back on. You might be right, I am not trying to attack you, but I dont see him as a liability not worth extending at all..I hope they do extend him. I mean you cant expect him to be the next coming of Rodney Harrison, EVERYONE missed plays--some more often than others...he isnt one in my eyes who messed up often.

 

[sebman2112]

i'll give you that.. but still...I'd Like to see some plays to look back on. You might be right, I am not trying to attack you, but I dont see him as a liability not worth extending at all..I hope they do extend him. I mean you cant expect him to be the next coming of Rodney Harrison, EVERYONE missed plays--some more often than others...he isnt one in my eyes who messed up often.

He didn't for the most part, and I really liked him in '05, and for most of '06, but he did start to mis coverages more frequently late in the season/playoffs. As I said before I like him as a backup, but NE could get better starting options.

 

[Fantasic4x50x54x59x55]

He didn't for the most part, and I really liked him in '05, and for most of '06, but he did start to mis coverages more frequently late in the season/playoffs. As I said before I like him as a backup, but NE could get better starting options.

oh without a doubt they could get better starting options.

 

[zippo59]

oh without a doubt they could get better starting options.

I would much rather have him as back up though than someone like Mel Mitchell or Michael Stone.

 

[Fantasic4x50x54x59x55]

I would much rather have him as back up though than someone like Mel Mitchell or Michael Stone.

Most Def. In that Regard you are Right.

 

[Ring 6]

I dont know how a TE who could be used at Hback can be compared to a player who is in between RB and FB.
They are entirely different players.
I did get a nice laugh when someone said since they are about the same size, they are the same player. I guess we shouldnt have drafted Maroney because we had Patrick Pass.

Of course the argument that Mills sat on his @ss last year, so you cannot say any football player would be an upgrade because we haven't seen Mills is a beauty too.

Personally, Im not too warm to the idea of drafting Leonard, because I dont see a need, and because those kind of players are iffy. (He is saying he only wants to play RB, but he is probably better suited to FB.)
I think our backfield is set.
We have our starter in Maroney.
We have our 3rd down back in Faulk.
We have our backup/special teams guy in Morris.
We have a FB who can also run the ball from the 1back set in Evans.
There is no room for anyone else, and the players we have in those spots are all excellent options for their roles.

Sure it would be great to have Maroney, Shawn Alexander and LaDanian Tomlinson, and then sign Clinton Portis for insurance, but you build a football team with guys who fit their roles, not by expecting to get other teams starters to sit on your bench,

 

[mgteich]

If you compared Hawkins with the other backup safeties in the league, I think that you would find that he is a valuable player to have. Ditto for Sanders.

We played our backups and still had one of the best TD allowed records and one of the best red zone records in the league.

mark

 

[Ring 6]

Hawkins to me is a guy who you are glad you have around when you have to put him on the field, but you aren't happy that you have gotten to the point where you have to put him out there.

He is not incompetant. But if your plan involves using him in a large role, you should be concerned about the position.

Having Hawkins as the 2nd or 3rd safety off the bench is probably better than what most teams in the NFL have. Having him as a starter or 1st safety off the bench is probably worse than most teams have.
He does contribute on s/ts. He does know the system and has experience here.
He has a place on the roster, but hopefully it is behind a healthy Harrison, Wilson, sanders, and even better an additional S as well.

 

[mgteich]

So, we should probably include Hawkins on our rosters as a Ster.

Hawkins to me is a guy who you are glad you have around when you have to put him on the field, but you aren't happy that you have gotten to the point where you have to put him out there.

He is not incompetant. But if your plan involves using him in a large role, you should be concerned about the position.

Having Hawkins as the 2nd or 3rd safety off the bench is probably better than what most teams in the NFL have. Having him as a starter or 1st safety off the bench is probably worse than most teams have.
He does contribute on s/ts. He does know the system and has experience here.
He has a place on the roster, but hopefully it is behind a healthy Harrison, Wilson, sanders, and even better an additional S as well.

 

[AzPatsFan]

No, it's correct. He was fine in '05 and he was fine the first half of the season, but he started blowing coverages, and missing easy tackles during the second half of the season. In the playoffs he was raped and not just against the Colts, either. Go watch the game film, and tell me I'm wrong. I don't have any problem with him as a backup, but I don't want him as a starting option. Oh, and he's a free agent after this year.

Could it possibly have been at least partially due to having to play with Rashad Baker and Eric Alexander around him?? Just a teesny little bit? Perhaps, Maybe??

So he is a FA after 2007, he is signed now and what makes you think he would be a tough signing? I agree with you, Hawkins iis a great depth reserve, experienced and useful. He isn't even the first reserve at Safety Rodney is, He a very good 4th S and what is your comaplaint? That we should use a first to beefing up up the 7th Safety. Don't forget we still have Gay, Scott and Mitchell as well,who occupy htsoe slots.

I don't see all the need to invest a first to improve over Rashad Baker or Willie Andrews....

Since when are we comparing a second reserve to Ed Reed?

 

[Ring 6]

So, we should probably include Hawkins on our rosters as a Ster.

That would be ideal. Of course we dont always get ideal at all 53 spots.
I think right now he is #4 safety, but I would like him to be #5 and a s/t guy. I also think thats not a huge problem.

I suppose the best way to put it is I hope Hawkins doesnt make the team because that means we found someone better. But I am not worried about the quality of the roster if he is the 5th S/ a special teamer. I'm a tiny bit concerned if he is the 4th S, and I wouldn't be comfortable with him as the 3rd safety.

 

[sebman2112]

If you compared Hawkins with the other backup safeties in the league, I think that you would find that he is a valuable player to have. Ditto for Sanders.

We played our backups and still had one of the best TD allowed records and one of the best red zone records in the league.

mark

Yea, I like them both as backups, and maybe Sanders as a rotational starter, but I think NE can get better Safeties in the draft. Also Hawkins is over 30 and a free agent after this season, and Sanders a free agent the year after.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Yea, I like them both as backups, and maybe Sanders as a rotational starter, but I think NE can get better Safeties in the draft. Also Hawkins is over 30 and a free agent after this season, and Sanders a free agent the year after.

For Cripes sake, Sanders just finished his sophomore year, and you're complaining he will soon be unsigned?

Why not trade everybody and play a team of only rookies, every year. They won't win any games, but ... They won't be unsigned for three more full years...

Ddi it ever dawn on you that for the majority of players, most rookie years are washouts? Worry about re-signing players who have earned the big money, which htey have found for Samuels, not those routine re-signings.

 

[sebman2112]

For Cripes sake, Sanders just finished his sophomore year, and you're complaining he will soon be unsigned?

Why not trade everybody and play a team of only rookies, every year. They won't win any games, but ... They won't be unsigned for three more full years...

Ddi it ever dawn on you that for the majority of players, most rookie years are washouts? Worry about re-signing players who have earned the big money, which htey have found for Samuels, not those routine re-signings.

Stop going overboard. Simply, what I am saying is some people think all of us who have been crying for Safeties, are crying because NE needs them this season. While I think a top level Safety could help out tremendously this year, I also think NE's situation at Safety becomes even more of a need area next season, and the year after. This would give the Safeties you draft this year time to develop in the system, and become the full time starters in two years. You don't wait until next year to draft replacements and just throw them right into the starting fire. Andrews, Baker, and Mitchell will never become full time starters. If NE drafted two good Safeties this year I don't even think those three would make the roster. Andrews being the most likely to make it. NE liked his kick return ability, but he didn't really do that good during the pre-season.

 

[mcsully]

You need to consider what these players have actually accomplush rather than just their physical attributes.

I agree, both comparisions show just their physical attributes but since both haven't done a lick in the NFL. Its good to use that as a measuring stick..

I would note that the patriots often draft two players in order to better increase the chance of one success. We drafted two TE's last year: Thomas and Mills. Thomas looks like a real find. We have now signed a really solid free agent TE. Mills is no longer part of that picture.

Agree with you 100% about depth. But We have depth at the position already without using a draft pick (high or low). Remember that on top of Mills, we just resigned Heath Evans and signed Sammy Morris.. He's been known to play fill in at FB and do quite well..

Even if we sign Hartwell, I would like to get a young linebacker. It isn't often that we see any that will fit our scheme.

Agree but still that will be filled later down in the draft

With regard to the secondary, my personal belief is that corners are drafted as early as possible and safeties in the 2nd through 4th, unless there is truly a special safety.

This is why I wouldn't be shocked to see them go CB/CB or CB/Safety with those first two picks..

 

[mcsully]

I dont know how a TE who could be used at Hback can be compared to a player who is in between RB and FB.
They are entirely different players.
I did get a nice laugh when someone said since they are about the same size, they are the same player. I guess we shouldnt have drafted Maroney because we had Patrick Pass.

That’s a poor analogy.. We know what Pass can and can't do.. ANd he's at the end of his career.. PLus Maroney was their to replace Dillion.. The mills comparison was just a quick scratch on the surface..

As you said Leonard wants to play RB and it would be a real shock to draft him..

Defense would seem more logical.. They need a injection of young talent there..

 

[VJCPatriot]

Ok new plan! We draft a Safety in the 1st round so we can stop *****ing about how bad Hawkins is. He's a decent backup but obviously not star starting material.

I like Reggie Nelson. Fast, flies to the ball, might be a Polamalu jr type player.

Ok so our draft will be:
1A Reggie Nelson - so Hawkins protestors can rejoice
1B Zach Miller - because the Pats always draft a tight end, duh
3 Zak DeOssie - need ILB

There! If you are unhappy with that draft, then that's probably how it will turn out.