Riley Cooper's new deal, and the effect on market price for Julian Edelman

[BradyFTW!]

If Decker gets 9M+ per year, then I officially have no idea what FA WRs are worth anymore. Frankly, nobody in this FA class should be getting anything approaching that number.

It'll be interesting to see the structure of Cooper's deal, since I agree that it sets the market rate for a guy like Edelman (who is probably worth 75-80% of what a guy like Cooper is worth). I'm not too worried about it, though, because I think that re-signing Edelman is more a luxury than a necessity. If he ends up being too expensive, then that's definitely not a good thing, but it's far from the end of the world and at anything more than 3-4M per year, I'd consider Edelman to be more expensive than he's worth.

 

[patfanken]

Essentially it's $3.6m a year for the first three years and then he can be released or restructured without much of a hit after year 3. I would be happy with a similar deal for Edelman. Note that I went conservative here, it could be even more back-loaded in non-guaranteed money. This is a similar structure to Amendola's deal.

This is a good read on the Cooper deal, PT. When are we ever going to learn that simply dividing the announced number by the years to find a value per year is just meaningless (Brady6). You have to be patient. The first numbers you hear are from the Agents, and are ALWAYS inflated

If this kind of deal (somewhere in the $3-4MM area) is what can get JE signed, then I'll be all for it. I think Edelman is worth about $2.5MM/yr as a receiver, but I'm willing to pay another million premium because of what he offers as a punt returner.

Don't forget that there are over FIFTY WR FA's plus the most talented and deepest rookie class of the last decade coming up in April. Thus proving once again that WR is easily the most replaceable position in football. This is more than just a buyer's market for WR's this off season, its a FLOODED one.

Last year Welker, the best slot receiver of our time, with 6 years of consistent production got what was essentially a 1 year 6MM deal, about $2-3MM LESS than expected and much shorter. What can JE truly expect after only his first year of production and health. Why would anyone pay JE even $5-6MM when E. Sanders can be had for about half that for a broader skill set. And Sanders is just ONE example off the top of my head.

I would much rather pay Sanders or another big strong WR $3MM for next year than pay my beloved JE more than that. Personally, I think JE would do a lot better financially long term staying with the Pats being the PR, and versatile role playing WR, than any short term bump he'd get elsewhere

 

[DaBruinz]

Kelce signed for 7 years at $37.5M which is $5.35 APY. Mack should be singable at $6.5M APY which we could swing without preventing us from retaining our own.

The Kelce deal is actually a good one by the Eagles in my opinion. $13M guaranteed is basically 1 season APY and an $8M bonus.

Brady6 - Wrong. Kelce signed a 6 year extension at 37.5M. That's is a 6.25M APY. Furthermore, the Signing bonus only get's amortized over 5 years, not the life of the deal because of the changes that were made in the last CBA agreement.

 

[Brady6]

The effect of Riley Cooper's new deal

Brady6 - Wrong. Kelce signed a 6 year extension at 37.5M. That's is a 6.25M APY. Furthermore, the Signing bonus only get's amortized over 5 years, not the life of the deal because of the changes that were made in the last CBA agreement.

Yeah I read this which was wrong I guess. Thank you for the correct information.
http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-o...cooper-to-five-year-deal-jason-kelce-to-seven
What are thinking for Mack $7.5M?

 

[JackBauer]

If Decker gets 9M+ per year, then I officially have no idea what FA WRs are worth anymore. Frankly, nobody in this FA class should be getting anything approaching that number.

Indeed. Not sure if it'll reach 9M, but you know some perennial loser with tons of cap space is going to wildly overpay for Decker.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Coopers skill set is more rare and you can't teach size. I think we should pay Edelman $4.5M APY and with the way contracts are structured his cap hit won't be massive the first two years. We have Boyce and Dobson on rookie contracts for the next 3 years. Why not pay him?

My answer to this question is this:

Well, what do Edelman, Amendola,Boyce, TJ Moe(long shot) have in common? And do you put that kind of investment in the same area or use it somewhere else. We will find out but my guess has always been Edelman is a goner.

 

[ripatsfan91]

My answer to this question is this:

Edelman proved that he can play on the outside, not just from the slot. Amendola is the only person on that list and is the only receiver on the pats who has a "big" contract. I don't have any faith that Amendola or Boyce can stay healthy or get on the same page with Brady; our offense was painful to watch the first 5 or so weeks of last season.

Correct me if I am wrong, but after next season the patriots have an out in the contract because the 10 million guaranteed is paid out in the first two years of the deal and the rest of the contract doesn't become guaranteed unless he is on the roster at the start of each of the following seasons?

I think it would be a mistake to let Edelman walk because 1. He is the only receiver Brady shows any chemistry with at this point 2. He is a very good punt returner 3. He is the ultimate team player (played DB for a season) 4. He has shown nothing but improvement every season he has been here.

If we can cut Amendola after next season with basically zero ramifications if he doesn't meet expectations, why wouldn't we give Edelman a reasonable contract of 4/$18M/$9-10M guaranteed?

I think people on this board underrate how good Edelman actually is. You think that his skill set is redundant with Amendola's/Boyce/Moe, but who do you suggest as a replacement? I am not in favor of a vertical passing game because I don't think it plays to Brady's strengths. We have the players who can be vertical threats, Gronk/Dobson/KT (if he can show any type of consistency)/Boyce (can be vertical threat due to speed and strength).

Look at what happened to Baltimore's passing game this season; they are asking for a move the chains receiver because they didn't have a guy that could run short routes effectively and pick up the yards underneath when they needed to. That's what Edelman does.

 

[strngplyr]

I'd rather dump Amendola and bite the bullet, create a roster spot for elsewhere (3rd QB to start learning since Mallet won't be back next year most likely?) and keep Edelman. Both are often injured, and we saw what happened last year when the team dumped or, for other reasons, lost everyone Brady cared about.

We struggled. This year we KNOW thats exactly what will happen unless the rookies and Brady get VERY close over the course of one offseason.

 

[JackBauer]

I'd rather dump Amendola and bite the bullet, create a roster spot for elsewhere (3rd QB to start learning since Mallet won't be back next year most likely?) and keep Edelman.

Seems like a very inefficient use of limited resources.

 

[strngplyr]

Seems like a very inefficient use of limited resources.

Maybe, but Amendola has proven to be an inefficient and overpriced resource over the years as well.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

-Albert Einstein

 

[JackBauer]

Maybe, but Amendola has proven to be an inefficient and overpriced resource over the years as well.

And this distinguishes him from Edelman, how?

As for your quote, that might be applicable to the original signing decision. But it doesn't really apply at this point.

 

[ripatsfan91]

Seems like a very inefficient use of limited resources.

I say keep them both through next season at least, if we resign Edelman to a 3 or 4 year deal, neither he nor DA will have a substantial cap hit (5+) next season. Also keep in mind that after next season, we have 8 million coming off the books from the serial killer. We can easily afford to keep both.

 

[strngplyr]

And this distinguishes him from Edelman, how?

As for your quote, that might be applicable to the original signing decision. But it doesn't really apply at this point.

Edelman isn't nearly as injury prone as everyone makes him out to be. Amendola ends his season or misses the majority of it due to injuries.

Edelman couldn't fight his way into the lineup behind Welker. Yes, he's had some injuries that felt frequent, but its not in the same category as Amendola. Edelman has also proven he can stay on the field for an entire year. I'm not sure I want to wait for Amendola to prove he can.

Having both on the field at the same time is also redundant, given a choice, Edelman is the more dynamic and versatile player, and I'd take him and his Chemistry with Brady over Amendola 7 days a week.

 

[PatsFan2]

Edelman isn't nearly as injury prone as everyone makes him out to be. Amendola ends his season or misses the majority of it due to injuries.

Edelman couldn't fight his way into the lineup behind Welker. Yes, he's had some injuries that felt frequent, but its not in the same category as Amendola. Edelman has also proven he can stay on the field for an entire year. I'm not sure I want to wait for Amendola to prove he can.

Having both on the field at the same time is also redundant, given a choice, Edelman is the more dynamic and versatile player, and I'd take him and his Chemistry with Brady over Amendola 7 days a week.

Preach brother preach...thats what I'm saying.

 

[ripatsfan91]

Edelman isn't nearly as injury prone as everyone makes him out to be. Amendola ends his season or misses the majority of it due to injuries.

Edelman couldn't fight his way into the lineup behind Welker. Yes, he's had some injuries that felt frequent, but its not in the same category as Amendola. Edelman has also proven he can stay on the field for an entire year. I'm not sure I want to wait for Amendola to prove he can.

Having both on the field at the same time is also redundant, given a choice, Edelman is the more dynamic and versatile player, and I'd take him and his Chemistry with Brady over Amendola 7 days a week.

I don't believe they are redundant. Edelman has proven that he can be an intermediate threat. I am an advocate of balance: two vertical threats (Gronk and Dobson) and two horizontal threats (DA and JE).

 

[strngplyr]

I don't believe they are redundant. Edelman has proven that he can be an intermediate threat. I am an advocate of balance: two vertical threats (Gronk and Dobson) and two horizontal threats (DA and JE).

Everyone is preaching to draft another TE to be that 2nd horizontal threat you covet. I personally would probably prefer that too. Creates more options having a 2TE/2WR offense vs 3WR 1TE.

Edit: I also would like to see what Boyce and Thompkins can do in that intermediate area more, Dobson is obviously here to be the tall deep threat, I see Thompkins filling the mid field role with Gronk, Boyce, Vereen, and another TE to fill the underneath area, and JE filling multiple roles.

 

[PatsFan2]

This is a good read on the Cooper deal, PT. When are we ever going to learn that simply dividing the announced number by the years to find a value per year is just meaningless (Brady6). You have to be patient. The first numbers you hear are from the Agents, and are ALWAYS inflated

If this kind of deal (somewhere in the $3-4MM area) is what can get JE signed, then I'll be all for it. I think Edelman is worth about $2.5MM/yr as a receiver, but I'm willing to pay another million premium because of what he offers as a punt returner.

Don't forget that there are over FIFTY WR FA's plus the most talented and deepest rookie class of the last decade coming up in April. Thus proving once again that WR is easily the most replaceable position in football. This is more than just a buyer's market for WR's this off season, its a FLOODED one.

Last year Welker, the best slot receiver of our time, with 6 years of consistent production got what was essentially a 1 year 6MM deal, about $2-3MM LESS than expected and much shorter. What can JE truly expect after only his first year of production and health. Why would anyone pay JE even $5-6MM when E. Sanders can be had for about half that for a broader skill set. And Sanders is just ONE example off the top of my head.

I would much rather pay Sanders or another big strong WR $3MM for next year than pay my beloved JE more than that. Personally, I think JE would do a lot better financially long term staying with the Pats being the PR, and versatile role playing WR, than any short term bump he'd get elsewhere

So you're saying saving the Patriots money is going to make them better? I am certain Tom Brady dissagrees with you. The going rate for Edelman is about $5Mill whether you like it or not. Sanders is nowhere near the receiver Edelman is and you don't even know IF he can digest our Playbook. If the Patriots let Edelman walk BB and Kraft both need Brian surgery. We have too many ???'s on Offense with inury prone players and all to let Edelman walk. Our current situation on Offense make Edelman resign a MUST!

 

[JackBauer]

Edelman isn't nearly as injury prone as everyone makes him out to be. Amendola ends his season or misses the majority of it due to injuries.

Edelman couldn't fight his way into the lineup behind Welker. Yes, he's had some injuries that felt frequent, but its not in the same category as Amendola. Edelman has also proven he can stay on the field for an entire year. I'm not sure I want to wait for Amendola to prove he can.

Having both on the field at the same time is also redundant, given a choice, Edelman is the more dynamic and versatile player, and I'd take him and his Chemistry with Brady over Amendola 7 days a week.

Talented players will find their way into the lineup, particularly at a skill position like wide receiver. Fact is, Edelman, like Amendola, is also injury prone, and hadn't done anything of note until this season. Now people are going to buy high on him, and I'm not sure that's really the wise thing to do.

Having both healthy and on the field at the same time, I'd take Amendola. After the Bills game, it's hard to see how chemistry is an issue. And at any rate, it doesn't matter: Amendola's under contract and it doesn't make sense to cut him so we can (in likelihood) overpay for a facsimile (though I dispute the notion that they're substitutes as I think Amendola offers you more versatility at the position than does Edelman).

 

[JackBauer]

Preach brother preach...thats what I'm saying.

You also said Larry Fitzgerald sucks, so I'm not sure that's going to lend any measure of confidence.

 

[PatsFan2]

This is a good read on the Cooper deal, PT. When are we ever going to learn that simply dividing the announced number by the years to find a value per year is just meaningless (Brady6). You have to be patient. The first numbers you hear are from the Agents, and are ALWAYS inflated

If this kind of deal (somewhere in the $3-4MM area) is what can get JE signed, then I'll be all for it. I think Edelman is worth about $2.5MM/yr as a receiver, but I'm willing to pay another million premium because of what he offers as a punt returner.

Don't forget that there are over FIFTY WR FA's plus the most talented and deepest rookie class of the last decade coming up in April. Thus proving once again that WR is easily the most replaceable position in football. This is more than just a buyer's market for WR's this off season, its a FLOODED one.

Last year Welker, the best slot receiver of our time, with 6 years of consistent production got what was essentially a 1 year 6MM deal, about $2-3MM LESS than expected and much shorter. What can JE truly expect after only his first year of production and health. Why would anyone pay JE even $5-6MM when E. Sanders can be had for about half that for a broader skill set. And Sanders is just ONE example off the top of my head.

I would much rather pay Sanders or another big strong WR $3MM for next year than pay my beloved JE more than that. Personally, I think JE would do a lot better financially long term staying with the Pats being the PR, and versatile role playing WR, than any short term bump he'd get elsewhere

ken haven't Denver taught you anything? field an Elite Offense and you can make it to the Big Dance. Whether you win is another story...newsflash the Patriots "Fragile" Offense is far from Elite.