The Safeties Have Never Been Good Enough

[Kontradiction]

Gregory has a chance to pass Steve Gregory? That would be a sight to see.

Harmon had a chance to pass Gregory. He didn't. And Kyed is wrong, too. Harmon gave up one TD this year on a man that he was directly responsible for covering. The opponent was either the Steelers or the Broncos and, off the top of my head, I can't remember which of the two it was. I'm leaning toward the Steelers, though.

 

[ashley]

I think the secondary has grown for sure over the past couple of years, but it was hardly "elite" in 2013. It was nice however, to go from the past few years ranked in the lower end of the NFL at 29, 30, 31 up to #18.

The safety play does need improved upon, and this seems to be a trend just about every single year--despite anyone's view of where they rank McCourty.

Gregory is a good rotational safety #3, but it's silly to think that he's the answer as a starting safety opposite McCourty, especially for the cap hit/money. Obviously Belichick sees it as an issue, or he wouldn't have chosen players in rounds 2 and 3 the past two years.

This is a great post!!! I totally agree on Gregory. McCourty I think is fine back there but wish he was a little more physical. If we don't upgrade the safety position via free agency, which is probably a longshot, then I think we definitely think we need to address the issue again in the draft. I really like Pryor but he will likely be gone but even if we take someone like Bucannon or Loston, later on, I think that would be an upgrade.

 

[All22PatsFan]

This is a great post!!! I totally agree on Gregory. McCourty I think is fine back there but wish he was a little more physical. If we don't upgrade the safety position via free agency, which is probably a longshot, then I think we definitely think we need to address the issue again in the draft. I really like Pryor but he will likely be gone but even if we take someone like Bucannon or Loston, later on, I think that would be an upgrade.

The total pass defense has to do more with the lack of pressure. DMac is a star, he only allowed 9 receptions and was only targeted 18 times. His closing speed is amazing, allowing him to play in Cover-1 as the single-high safety or "centerfielder" .Gregory, Wilson and Harmon can fight for the starting spot. If we were to draft someone it would have to be later. It is impossible to evaluate Safteys coming out of College for fans as we can only watch the TV copy's. However if there is a safety we draft late I like the WKU safety Johnathan Dowling.

 

[ashley]

The total pass defense has to do more with the lack of pressure. DMac is a star, he only allowed 9 receptions and was only targeted 18 times. His closing speed is amazing, allowing him to play in Cover-1 as the single-high safety or "centerfielder" .Gregory, Wilson and Harmon can fight for the starting spot. If we were to draft someone it would have to be later. It is impossible to evaluate Safteys coming out of College for fans as we can only watch the TV copy's. However if there is a safety we draft late I like the WKU safety Johnathan Dowling.

I do agree with you that we do need to get more pressure on opposing quarterbacks. I am not sold on the fact that our secondary couldn't use an upgrade however. McCourty is fine and I think we can live with him but we need to really upgrade the other safety position. Gregory is at best a rotational guy and a special teams player. I'm not sure what Harmon is yet, but if he was better than Gregory, wouldn't we have seen more of him late in the year? I think I secondary is just too finesse and we need to get a lot more physical back there.

 

[JackBauer]

Harmon had a chance to pass Gregory. He didn't. And Kyed is wrong, too. Harmon gave up one TD this year on a man that he was directly responsible for covering. The opponent was either the Steelers or the Broncos and, off the top of my head, I can't remember which of the two it was. I'm leaning toward the Steelers, though.

Well, he didn't this year. He definitely has a chance next year - though I'm uncertain whether that's a credit to Harmon or an indictment of Gregory.

 

[Ring 6]

Harmon had a chance to pass Gregory. He didn't. And Kyed is wrong, too. Harmon gave up one TD this year on a man that he was directly responsible for covering. The opponent was either the Steelers or the Broncos and, off the top of my head, I can't remember which of the two it was. I'm leaning toward the Steelers, though.

Solid analysis, clearly Kyed is wrong.

 

[Ring 6]

Well, he didn't this year. He definitely has a chance next year - though I'm uncertain whether that's a credit to Harmon or an indictment of Gregory.

A rookie not surpassing a veteran is not a criticism of the rookie.

 

[Kontradiction]

Had a chance to research it...

Leftover Observations: Patriots Rookie Safety Duron Harmon vs. St | ChatPats.com

It was against the Steelers.

Opposite “10” personnel down in the red zone, Harmon – the low safety – steps back as Brown runs a crossing route underneath. The pattern forces Harmon to trace into a wall of linebackers. The pass, however, is thrown away from the safety’s vicinity for a touchdown to wide receiver Jerricho Cotchery.

I remember that play. That touchdown was on Harmon.

 

[Ring 6]

Had a chance to research it...

Leftover Observations: Patriots Rookie Safety Duron Harmon vs. St | ChatPats.com

It was against the Steelers.



I remember that play. That touchdown was on Harmon.

Try again. Not this one.

The pass, however, is thrown away from the safety’s vicinity for a touchdown to wide receiver Jerricho Cotchery.

I just watched the replay. Harmon was on the defensive left and the pass was caught at the defensive right sideline.

 

[All22PatsFan]

Try again. Not this one.



I just watched the replay. Harmon was on the defensive left and the pass was caught at the defensive right sideline.

I rewatched all the Cothery TDs I wouldn't put any on
Harmon.

 

[Kontradiction]

Well, he didn't this year. He definitely has a chance next year - though I'm uncertain whether that's a credit to Harmon or an indictment of Gregory.

I don't know if it would be an indictment on anyone. It certainly doesn't speak volumes though. If Harmon played nearly as well as people here let on, he would have leapfrogged Gregory the same way Dennard found his way into the starting line-up in 2012. As it stands, Gregory came back and assumed his role and Harmon lost snaps to Tavon Wilson, of all people, down the stretch. Of course, he could progress. But right now I think he's more naturally a back-up to McCourty and I wouldn't be surprised to watch Belichick make another move at safety.

I rewatched all the Cothery TDs I wouldn't put any on
Harmon.

Can you send them to me? I was looking for the clip on it but they didn't show it in the highlights. On that play, the low safety should never be helping on a crossing route. Much less running into a pile of linebackers. Cotchery got behind him on what was a relatively easy pitch and catch for seven.

EDIT: If it's on the All-22, screen shot the play and post the pics. Unlike the guy you're responding to, who is on my ignore list, I'll freely admit if I'm wrong and eat crow.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't know if it would be an indictment on anyone. It certainly doesn't speak volumes though. If Harmon played nearly as well as people here let on, he would have leapfrogged Gregory the same way Dennard found his way into the starting line-up in 2012. As it stands, Gregory came back and assumed his role and Harmon lost snaps to Tavon Wilson, of all people, down the stretch. Of course, he could progress. But right now I think he's more naturally a back-up to McCourty and I wouldn't be surprised to watch Belichick make another move at safety.



Can you send them to me? I was looking for the clip on it but they didn't show it in the highlights. On that play, the low safety should never be helping on a crossing route. Much less running into a pile of linebackers. Cotchery got behind him on what was a relatively easy pitch and catch for seven.

EDIT: If it's on the All-22, screen shot the play and post the pics. Unlike the guy you're responding to, who is on my ignore list, I'll freely admit if I'm wrong and eat crow.

Cotchery was on the other side of the field. There was one receiver on Harmons side, the one that crossed.

 

[Ring 6]

EDIT: If it's on the All-22, screen shot the play and post the pics. Unlike the guy you're responding to, who is on my ignore list, I'll freely admit if I'm wrong and eat crow.

Hard to pretend to ignore my posts and read them at the same time.
Nice of you to toss an obligatory insult while you are at it. Nice to see you are still up to your old tricks.

 

[Ring 6]

I rewatched all the Cothery TDs I wouldn't put any on
Harmon.

The one that was referenced was on the right defensive sideline while Harmon was playing left safety.

 

[All22PatsFan]

The one that was referenced was on the right defensive sideline while Harmon was playing left safety.

I will post the play, my computer is being slow though

 

[Kontradiction]

I will post the play, my computer is being slow though

Thank you sir.

 

[Kontradiction]

Since I can see Andy's posts whenever someone quotes him, I will say to him and to All22PatsFan, you guys are absolutely right. I am absolutely wrong. For that, I will eat a fat plate of crow and call myself an idiot.


















It was against the Broncos that Harmon allowed a touchdown.

TE Tamme turns into Manning's security blanket

 

[Brady6]

I don't understand the relevance of this list. In 2013, the patriots cap hits of safeties was between $7M and $8M, with many teams higher.

No one expects that the hits listed below will be the 2014 hits for players of our team or of other teams. McCourty will likely be extended with his cap reduced. Wilson will almost assuredly be gone. If he stays, Gregory will not have the cap hit listed (his replacement won't have that cap hit either).

The money issue, if there is one, is that we are not getting enough production of those under rookie contracts: Wilson, Ebner and Harmon.

You always lean so hard on this rookie contract thing every time I post something reflecting the salary cap, do you realize that the #1 safety on that list is on his rookie contract? There are plenty of rookie contract on that list so let’s not act like Gregory’s salary is high because it is second or third contract.

Eric Berry
Mark Barron
Earl Thomas
Devin McCourty
Kenny Vaccaro
Harrison Smith
Tavon Wilson
Barry Church
Eric Reid
Matt Elam
Jonathan Cyprien
DJ Swearinger
Quinton Carter

I also question the list. There are 64 starting Safeties in the NFL .There is no way all are included here.

It is the top 50 only, it has nothing to do with starting safeties or teams.

 

[All22PatsFan]

I am not sure how focused the Colts can be when they have been beaten in this manner, and in the RCA dome no less. Their confidence must have taken a beating. However, the biggest impact this is going to have is on Indy's future opponents, who are going to a lot of more confidence going after Manning and unsettling him into performances similar to today's.

Cotchery was on the other side of the field. There was one receiver on Harmons side, the one that crossed.

This is it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjctdoPbX4I
I wouldn't put it on Harmon

 

[JackBauer]

I don't know if it would be an indictment on anyone. It certainly doesn't speak volumes though. If Harmon played nearly as well as people here let on, he would have leapfrogged Gregory the same way Dennard found his way into the starting line-up in 2012. As it stands, Gregory came back and assumed his role and Harmon lost snaps to Tavon Wilson, of all people, down the stretch. Of course, he could progress. But right now I think he's more naturally a back-up to McCourty and I wouldn't be surprised to watch Belichick make another move at safety.

To be fair, I think the "lost snaps to Tavon" bit is overblown. I think it's more accurate to say neither of them played much, and Tavon was put in over Harmon in goal line packages.