The Safeties Have Never Been Good Enough

[mgteich]

I am not concerned with the cap hits of McCourty and Gregory. Comparing their cap hit with
players in their rookie contract seems unreasonable. If they are worth their salaries and bonuses, then that's fine. If there is a cap issue, then they should be extended reducing their cap hit.

It is the question of new money that is critical. And yes, we would like us to replace Wilson, Wilson and Gregory if they can be replaced with players who are expected to perform as well at the same new money or less.

The biggest question mark for me is Tavon Wilson.

I do not think there is hate towards Gregory, I think most do not feel that he justifies having the 22nd highest cap # of any safety in the NFL, I tend to agree.

1. Eric Berry-$11,619,700
2. Troy Polamalu-$10,887,500
3. Eric Weddle-$10,100,000
4. Antrel Rolle-$9,250,000
5. Dashon Goldson-$9,000,000
6. Michael Griffin-$8,000,000
7. Tyvon Branch-$7,157,000
8. Charles Godfrey-$7,100,000
9. Louis Delmas-$6,500,000
10. Danieal Manning-$6,000,000
11. Roman Harper-$5,870,000
12. Kam Chancellor-$5,825,000
13. Earl Thomas-$5,473,212
14. William Moore-$5,150,000
15. Devin McCourty-$5,115,000
16. Morgan Burnett-$4,843,750
17. Thomas DeCoud-$4,800,000
18. LaRon Landry-$4,750,000
19. Glover Quin-$4,550,000
20. Reggie Nelson-$4,475,000
21. Mark Barron-$3,945,409
22. Steve Gregory-$3,683,334
23. Reshad Jones-$3,610,000
24. Brandon Meriweather-$3,400,000
25. Patrick Chung-$3,250,000
26. George Wilson-$2,800,000
27. Jamarca Sanford-$2,750,000
28. Kenny Vaccaro-$2,141,978
29. Rashad Johnson-$2,133,333
30. Barry Church-$2,000,000
31. Harrison Smith-$1,946,876
32. Eric Reid-$1,927,444
33. Craig Dahl-$1,883,333
34. Adrian Wilson-$1,833,333
35. Dawan Landry-$1,825,000
36. David Bruton-$1,650,000
37. C.J. Spillman-$1,558,334
38. Matt Elam-$1,537,955
39. Chris Conte-$1,522,400
40. Da'Norris Searcy-$1,510,106
41. Rahim Moore-$1,415,313
42. Alan Ball-$1,305,000
43. Jonathan Cyprien-$1,242,978
44. Tavon Wilson-$1,150,335
45. Andrew Sendejo-$866,666
46. Raymond Ventrone-$855,000
47. Chris Prosinski-$840,045
48. DJ Swearinger-$793,477
49. Sherrod Martin-$780,000
50. Quinton Carter-$758,750

Personally, I find the fact that we have four safeties in the top 50 cap hits to be concerning especially when two of them are the Tavon Wilson and Adrian Wilson.

 

[DocHoliday]

Nick Collins is looking to make a comeback. Great player but he's a FS. Though he's 31 and recovering from neck fusion he has been out of football for two years recuperating and feels confident he can pass a physical.

I actually have high hopes for Tavon Wilson. Are they grounded in reality? Probably not, but he is considered one of the freak athletes on the team by reporters. It's the mental mistakes that have relegated him to ST.

He has the physical ability to cover TEs and lay some huge hits.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Miguel,

I'm not being critical, and I'm incredibly appreciative of the work you do, and I apologize if I offended you. Perhaps I haven't read all the fine print as closely as I should have, and I'm not a capologist. But I think there has been some confusion about the difference in numbers, which until today I didn't understand - again, I'm not a capologist. Net vs. gross cap savings resolves it nicely. If we cut Dan Connolly (just to take an example) we have a $2.505M immediate net cap savings, but we have $3M available to spend on a free agent.

MC

If we were under 51 players under contract that would be true, but because we are already 60+ players under contract someone will automatically be added to the top 51, taking up that $495k. But at the same time with any free agent signing we make, their 1st year net cap hit will be reduced by $495k. For example, if we re-sign Talib and his 1st year cap hit is $5mil, he will only take up $4.505mil in cap space.

I think the way Miguel looks at things isn't the same as us regular fans with less cap knowledge may look at things, but I think its a more appropriate representation.

For example, looking at Tavon Wilson, in the past I would have looked at him and thought we could save $396k by cutting him. In reality, it would cost us $100k to replace him by a minimum salary.

 

[Wilfork#75]

What does everyone think of Malcolm Jenkins from the Saints? He was a high draft pick that has never quite lived up to the hype although he has shown some flashes of brilliance (and some blunders too). He just turned 26 so he still has plenty of time to put it together. I really like his athleticism and physicality, but he needs to improve his tackling form and he takes a lot of bad angles. He might be a decent buy low candidate at safety.

 

[DocHoliday]

What does everyone think of Malcolm Jenkins from the Saints? He was a high draft pick that has never quite lived up to the hype although he has shown some flashes of brilliance (and some blunders too). He just turned 26 so he still has plenty of time to put it together. I really like his athleticism and physicality, but he needs to improve his tackling form and he takes a lot of bad angles. He might be a decent buy low candidate at safety.

I'm all for it, I just worry because this team hasn't really shown an ability to develop safeties.

Not sure why we'd be able to start now.

 

[Danger Zone]

I'm not trying to use this as a rebuttal to the topic..

.. but am I really that wrong in thinking of McCourty as a bit of a stud safety?

 

[mgteich]

I don't understand the relevance of this list. In 2013, the patriots cap hits of safeties was between $7M and $8M, with many teams higher.

No one expects that the hits listed below will be the 2014 hits for players of our team or of other teams. McCourty will likely be extended with his cap reduced. Wilson will almost assuredly be gone. If he stays, Gregory will not have the cap hit listed (his replacement won't have that cap hit either).

The money issue, if there is one, is that we are not getting enough production of those under rookie contracts: Wilson, Ebner and Harmon.

I do not think there is hate towards Gregory, I think most do not feel that he justifies having the 22nd highest cap # of any safety in the NFL, I tend to agree.

1. Eric Berry-$11,619,700
2. Troy Polamalu-$10,887,500
3. Eric Weddle-$10,100,000
4. Antrel Rolle-$9,250,000
5. Dashon Goldson-$9,000,000
6. Michael Griffin-$8,000,000
7. Tyvon Branch-$7,157,000
8. Charles Godfrey-$7,100,000
9. Louis Delmas-$6,500,000
10. Danieal Manning-$6,000,000
11. Roman Harper-$5,870,000
12. Kam Chancellor-$5,825,000
13. Earl Thomas-$5,473,212
14. William Moore-$5,150,000
15. Devin McCourty-$5,115,000
16. Morgan Burnett-$4,843,750
17. Thomas DeCoud-$4,800,000
18. LaRon Landry-$4,750,000
19. Glover Quin-$4,550,000
20. Reggie Nelson-$4,475,000
21. Mark Barron-$3,945,409
22. Steve Gregory-$3,683,334
23. Reshad Jones-$3,610,000
24. Brandon Meriweather-$3,400,000
25. Patrick Chung-$3,250,000
26. George Wilson-$2,800,000
27. Jamarca Sanford-$2,750,000
28. Kenny Vaccaro-$2,141,978
29. Rashad Johnson-$2,133,333
30. Barry Church-$2,000,000
31. Harrison Smith-$1,946,876
32. Eric Reid-$1,927,444
33. Craig Dahl-$1,883,333
34. Adrian Wilson-$1,833,333
35. Dawan Landry-$1,825,000
36. David Bruton-$1,650,000
37. C.J. Spillman-$1,558,334
38. Matt Elam-$1,537,955
39. Chris Conte-$1,522,400
40. Da'Norris Searcy-$1,510,106
41. Rahim Moore-$1,415,313
42. Alan Ball-$1,305,000
43. Jonathan Cyprien-$1,242,978
44. Tavon Wilson-$1,150,335
45. Andrew Sendejo-$866,666
46. Raymond Ventrone-$855,000
47. Chris Prosinski-$840,045
48. DJ Swearinger-$793,477
49. Sherrod Martin-$780,000
50. Quinton Carter-$758,750

Personally, I find the fact that we have four safeties in the top 50 cap hits to be concerning especially when two of them are the Tavon Wilson and Adrian Wilson.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't understand the relevance of this list. In 2013, the patriots cap hits of safeties was between $7M and $8M, with many teams higher.

No one expects that the hits listed below will be the 2014 hits for players of our team or of other teams. McCourty will likely be extended with his cap reduced. Wilson will almost assuredly be gone. If he stays, Gregory will not have the cap hit listed (his replacement won't have that cap hit either).

The money issue, if there is one, is that we are not getting enough production of those under rookie contracts: Wilson, Ebner and Harmon.

I also question the list. There are 64 starting Safeties in the NFL .There is no way all are included here.

 

[ashley]

I'm so tired of Gregory getting beat on third downs by average tight ends and hearing how smart he is. I'd rather have a safety that is not as smart, but brings more of a physical presence and can match up with some of these big athletic tight ends in the league. I would love to draft either Calvin Pryor or bring in someone in free agency like Donte Whitner or TJ Ward.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm so tired of Gregory getting beat on third downs by average tight ends and hearing how smart he is. I'd rather have a safety that is not as smart, but brings more of a physical presence and can match up with some of these big athletic tight ends in the league. I would love to draft either Calvin Pryor or bring in someone in free agency like Donte Whitner or TJ Ward.

Calvin Pryor or Deone Bucannon would be great.

 

[ashley]

Calvin Pryor or Deone Bucannon would be great.

Do you think we can get Pryor in the second or would have to grab him in the with the 29th pick? I've read recently how he has been moving up the draft boards.

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

Nope you guys are all wrong...this team will never win again unless we have AJ Green Calvin Johnson Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman......common patriots its easy just draft Earl Thomas and Richard Shermans brothers and will be number 1 in no time!!!


How I feel about Pats fans in the off-season.

 

[mayoclinic]

Do you think we can get Pryor in the second or would have to grab him in the with the 29th pick? I've read recently how he has been moving up the draft boards.

I think it's < 20% chance that Pryor lasts until 29, and no chance that he lasts until the 2nd round. From what I hear a lot of teams have him rated as the top safety off the board. Green Bay at 21 and Philadelphia at 22. But I'd be thrilled to get him at 29.

 

[Deus Irae]

Do you think we can get Pryor in the second or would have to grab him in the with the 29th pick? I've read recently how he has been moving up the draft boards.

I think it's < 20% chance that Pryor lasts until 29, and no chance that he lasts until the 2nd round. From what I hear a lot of teams have him rated as the top safety off the board. Green Bay at 21 and Philadelphia at 22. But I'd be thrilled to get him at 29.

I think that, for Patriots fans, the bottom line is that we want to see lots of QBs, OTs and WRs going off the board early.

 

[BelichicksHoodie]

I think that, for Patriots fans, the bottom line is that we want to see lots of QBs, OTs and WRs going off the board early.

Just based off the success of the Seahawks and 49ers this year and to a lesser extent the Panthers, I can see a defensive player dominated first round sadly.

 

[ashley]

Just based off the success of the Seahawks and 49ers this year and to a lesser extent the Panthers, I can see a defensive player dominated first round sadly.

Agreed, also it was a bad taste in everyone's mouth the last game seeing Peyton move up and down the field on us and not getting any pass rush and seeing Seattle shut them down so easily!!!

 

[BelichicksHoodie]

Agreed, also it was a bad taste in everyone's mouth the last game seeing Peyton move up and down the field on us and not getting any pass rush and seeing Seattle shut them down so easily!!!

For sure, that game was so frustrating to watch. Brady on the sidelines is nothing anyone wants to see. Brady on the sidelines for virtually the entire game while Manning is out on the field was even worse. It looked like our guys had no idea what they were doing out there, they couldn't get off the first on third down to save their lives.

Fast forward to two weeks later against Seattle, it looked like they had 15 guys on the field against Denver.

 

[Coach42]

I think the thumping ss type of player is dead in the new NFL. I'd much rather have 4 competent coverage men in the defensive backfield. Aggressive physical safety play cost the 49ers a trip to the Super Bowl. I'd like to play 4 corners and and old school SS type at one of the LB spots as a base D. I don't think we're to far from seeing it become a reality.

 

[All22PatsFan]

Why is repalcing Gregory so important, the secondary was an elite unit this yr. The D-Line is the unit that needs fixing.
As of right now I would rank the Pats needs as
1. #1 CB
2. Pass rushing DT
3. #3 DE -
4. OG
5. TE
6. WR

 

[mgteich]

I agree with regard to the secondary. I agree with the need on the DL.

However, I would put TE much, much higher. We have a part-time all-pro and no one else. We need at least two addition.

At WR, we need at least a mid-level addition, who could be Edelman.

Why is repalcing Gregory so important, the secondary was an elite unit this yr. The D-Line is the unit that needs fixing.
As of right now I would rank the Pats needs as
1. #1 CB
2. Pass rushing DT
3. #3 DE -
4. OG
5. TE
6. WR