Deathmatch, Part Deux: The 4-way battle for Patriots' CB1

[Brady_to_Moss]

Grimes...stayed healthy all of last year something we NEED in this secondary..talib isn't cutting it

 

[mgteich]

I don't have the same faith in finding talent on Day 3 that you do. Belichick has had problems finding talent in Rounds 2 & 3. I think that it is unreasonable to believe that he will find upgrades later.

Ebner has developed as a core STer, and he could potentially be the successor to Slater in the role, so I would tend to keep him. I also think that he still has some upside at safety, since he never played the position; I'm not expecting miracles, but at times last season he appeared to be ahead of Wilson on the depth chart.

Gregory and Wilson are both easily upgradeable; I think replacing one of them makes sense, along with adding a #5 CB. Too much turnover creates chaos. There are a ton of guys in the day 2-3 range of the draft who could be good fits at both outside CB and safety:

- Day 2: Lamarcus Joyner, Kyle Fuller, Stanley Jean-Baptiste
- Day 2/early day 3: Keith McGill
- Day 3: Aaron Colvin (would be day 2 except for his ACL injury), Jonathan Dowling, Antone Exum, Dontae Johnson, Vinnie Sunseri

I think you can find a 5th CB who can play press-man and an upgrade at #4 safety on day 3 of the draft. Say Antone Exum or Jonathan Dowling at safety and Aaron Colvin at CB, but there are lots of options.

Keep Talib-Dennard-McCourty as the base along with Ryan-Arrington-Harmon and add 2 more of those guys, and the secondary would be in very good shape.

 

[mayoclinic]

I don't have the same faith in finding talent on Day 3 that you do. Belichick has had problems finding talent in Rounds 2 & 3. I think that it is unreasonable to believe that he will find upgrades later.

Alfonzo Dennard and Julian Edelman suggest otherwise.

The "Seattle model" suggests that you can find plenty of big, physical DBs on day 3. Richard Sherman (round 5), Kam Chancellor (round 4), Walter Thurmond (round 4), Byron Maxwell (6th round). Tharold Simon (4th round) will be coming off IR next year.

Colvin and Exum are both day 2 talents who will fall to day 3 because of injuries. They aren't the only talents who will fall to day 3 in a particularly strong and deep draft. This will be a great draft to find talent on day 3. We're not looking for immediate starters here, just upgrades at depth. A big, physical CB who can play press-man would be a huge addition as a backup outside CB, and I don't believe that Tavon Wilson and Ebner have raised the bar so high that someone like Dowling or Exum have little chance of exceeding it.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

richard sherman says he's elite. Elite? No

 

[supafly]

Brent Grimes seems to be quite happy in South Beach, and the feeling seems to be mutual as they continue to try and climb back over .500.

I would be surprised if the Fins let him walk away. Unfortunately, we missed out on that acquisition last offseason.

 

[supafly]

richard sherman says he's elite. Elite? No

Sherman's pretty damn good.

That said, we'll see how good their secondary and defense in general are come Sunday, when they aren't in the friendly confines of Century Link field with those blue/green jerseys on.

 

[mgteich]

So, Belichick found one corner that no one else would draft. That isn't a trend.

I agree that Belichick does very well with late picks and UDFA's.

And I agree that he should try. As you say, the bar is low.

Alfonzo Dennard and Julian Edelman suggest otherwise.

The "Seattle model" suggests that you can find plenty of big, physical DBs on day 3. Richard Sherman (round 5), Kam Chancellor (round 4), Walter Thurmond (round 4), Byron Maxwell (6th round). Tharold Simon (4th round) will be coming off IR next year.

Colvin and Exum are both day 2 talents who will fall to day 3 because of injuries. They aren't the only talents who will fall to day 3 in a particularly strong and deep draft. This will be a great draft to find talent on day 3. We're not looking for immediate starters here, just upgrades at depth. A big, physical CB who can play press-man would be a huge addition as a backup outside CB, and I don't believe that Tavon Wilson and Ebner have raised the bar so high that someone like Dowling or Exum have little chance of exceeding it.

 

[ausbacker]

Sherman's pretty damn good.

That said, we'll see how good their secondary and defense in general are come Sunday, when they aren't in the friendly confines of Century Link field with those blue/green jerseys on.

IMO, Sherman is one of the three best corners in the game with Revis and Patrick Peterson. To include him in that group would be the very definition of elite.

I'd like the Patriots to keep Talib for the sake of continuity. I do have reservations over his ability to play 18 games in a Super Bowl season.

 

[makoute]

This is tough, only because of Talib's annual disabled list visit.

 

[primetime]

Kam Chancellor was arguably the best safety in college football the year he came out and it was shocking to me that he was a day three pick. I suspect it was measureables - he's in that big safety/small linebacker range and doesn't have ideal foot speed, but he plays fast and hits hard. It was also probably that it was the best year for safeties in memory - Berry, Thomas, and Ward were also in that draft (as were some predictable overrated stiffs like Taylor Mays).

As for Sherman, Revis is the only guy who I'd say is better. Peterson had a down year but is quite good as well. Talib is up there but has problems staying healthy.

Vontae Davis is pretty bad, Sam Shields is fine but nothing special, while Grimes is a very good corner but has had catastrophic injury issues in the past. If it's between these four with similar contracts, you go with Talib every single time.

 

[sevengables_2207]

Talib is the best player of the bunch and has flourished in this system.

The injuries are simply (hopefully) just ill-timed bad luck/breaks.

Resigning him while continuing to draft and develop depth at CB is a priority for the Patriots going forward, IMHO.

 

[Kontradiction]

richard sherman says he's elite. Elite? No

You must be joking...