Time to Get Brady Weapons

[DocHoliday]

It was a good effort from a group that obviously lacked any kind of talent, which was actually a nice change from some of the teams in the past, effort-wise. In the end however, the lack of physicality on a consistent enough level or maybe more appropriately--occurring at the right time, was a big part of the difference once again.

The lack of talent on offense was downright pathetic though. As I stated all week long and hoped like hell that I'd be wrong, there's a huge difference between rushing on the bottom 10 of the league in rush defense (which we were 5-0), and the better rush defenses in the league such as DEN's 7th ranked attack.

The offensive "weapons" in the passing game were practically non-existent once Gronk went down, as much as some kept pounding the drum that there was somehow a huge misconception that we couldn't pass, and how guys like Dobson were going to strap on the Superman cape and suddenly go off Randy Moss 2007 style.

Remember that Tom Curran thread pretty much predicting these troubles? We had people like Andy come by slamming anyone who agreed, saying the Pats could pass if they wanted to.

To be fair it wasn't just Andy, he's just the notable user I remember

 

[dales804]

Did you catch this in the article:



New England Patriots enter another offseason seeking offensive weapons | masslive.com

That was the team's "deep threat".

:bricks:

Did the article say how many were actually thrown?

 

[JoeSixPat]

It is getting ridiculous.

I understand the following

• Hernandez was arrested
• Gronkowski was injured

But, you cannot ask a QB who is at the end of his career to continue to will this team to miracle comeback after miracle comeback. Its time to break the bank and trade for Fitzgerald or someone of that ilk.

Next year's targets should be

• Larry Fitz/A Legit Deep Threat
• Dobson
• Edelman
• Amendola
• Gronkowski (for as long as he can give us)

Those are weapons. We need them to beat teams like Denver. With a healthy defense, we would roll teams.

As others have pointed out it's not even clear if Fitzgerald is available and if there's value between the cost of a trade and contract, but your overall point and request is reasonable and valid.

You're advocating for a return of the core of WRs (don't leave out the RBs as receivers, nor an addition at TE) plus a willingness to spend some money on a deep threat.

I don't doubt Belichick will give that serious consideration - but I think he'll expect the rookies to improve and hope - like all of us - for good health.

The thing to keep in mind is expending $$ in the off-season offers no guarantee on production or good health. Good luck is key. Beyond that all you can hope for is that Belichick has enough relatively healthy, affordable, backups to turn to when the injury bug hits as it so often does.

Of course that's exactly what Belichick did with this group. While the lack of a deep threat was not a help, I think a healthy Amendola and Gronkowski alone would have been enough of a difference maker this season to advance to the Super Bowl.

I give Belichick a ton of credit for the work he's done to assemble the team he did this past season and expect he'll seek to improve the offense in the offseason as he always tries to do.

Improvements can be made, but in the end it comes down to Lady Luck in a game involving a funny shaped ball that can make some unpredictable bounces.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Even if brady had a deep threat...were they winning that game vs the broncos? Thye lost in the trenches and the D couldn't get off the field on 3rd down. A deep threat wouldn't have changed that game at least

 

[upstater1]

Even if brady had a deep threat...were they winning that game vs the broncos? Thye lost in the trenches and the D couldn't get off the field on 3rd down. A deep threat wouldn't have changed that game at least

Who knows?

Maybe. You had the Broncos daring the Patriots to throw by putting 8 men in the box. You get a threatening WR out there (someone other than Collie or Slater) and suddenly you're running against 6 or 7 men. Maybe Ridley is more effective at that point and he opens up the offense.

No one knows.

We do know that when Brady had more weapons last year, he lead that offense to be the 4th greatest O of all time.

 

[Deus Irae]

Even if brady had a deep threat...were they winning that game vs the broncos? Thye lost in the trenches and the D couldn't get off the field on 3rd down. A deep threat wouldn't have changed that game at least

Seems to me that Slater catching that ball would have made a hell of a difference...

 

[CISGS]

Even if brady had a deep threat...were they winning that game vs the broncos? Thye lost in the trenches and the D couldn't get off the field on 3rd down. A deep threat wouldn't have changed that game at least

No, of course not. But with those weapons and a semi-healthy defense, yes, absolutely they would have won.

 

[mgteich]

We were #3 in scoring this year. All of our new wide receivers were injured for most of the year: Amendola, Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce). Our running game was much improved.

I guess we need a major overhaul.

 

[supafly]

We were #3 in scoring this year. All of our new wide receivers were injured for most of the year: Amendola, Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce). Our running game was much improved.

I guess we need a major overhaul.

I don't think anyone should be asking for a "major overhaul."

What people are asking for is a more reasonable outside threat. Possibly someone who is actually physical and/or can make some plays.

In other words--ONE player. No "overhaul."

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

They wont find that one player in FA this year. Maybe in trade but not sure if any big threat WRs will be available for decent price.

 

[Deus Irae]

We were #3 in scoring this year. All of our new wide receivers were injured for most of the year: Amendola, Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce). Our running game was much improved.

I guess we need a major overhaul.

Excellent point. There's no sense in even looking for possible offensive help. The Patriots should just rely on the same injury prone players while hoping Brady delays his inevitable decline for yet another year. That's been an excellent way to rack up 3 consecutive Super Bowl victories, after all.


Great plan! Hey, are you going to this year's SB victory parade in Boston when they have it in the next couple of weeks?

 

[mgteich]

Perhaps we should simply cut the injury prone players like Gronk, Vollmer, Dobson and Edelman and use the money on free agents. Is that YOUR plan? Will THAT plan really be expect to do better than getting in the championship game every year?

Excellent point. There's no sense in even looking for possible offensive help. The Patriots should just rely on the same injury prone players while hoping Brady delays his inevitable decline for yet another year. That's been an excellent way to rack up 3 consecutive Super Bowl victories, after all.


Great plan!

 

[supafly]

Did the article say how many were actually thrown?

According to Ian's database:

The top 3 players who made plays of over 20 yards this year (not necessarily balls traveling "in the air") :

Gronk--10

Edelman--9

Amendola--8

That shows an obvious lack of downfield threat.


I don't think it really matters how many actual targets Dobson (or anyone) received that were in the air past 20 yards, nor do I know from looking at the database, although I could be just missing it.

The bottom line is that we really were quite limited in how often we could even attempt such a play, and that could use an upgrade in my opinion.

It's possible that Belichick may feel comfortable enough in hoping that Dobson pans out in that role, but I can certainly understand those who would like another year of him being blended into the passing game again. Just because we took him as a 2nd round pick doesn't mean that we're forced to use him anymore than we were with T.Wilson, D.Butler, or Jermaine Cunningham. I want to see the best players receiving the most reps who put us in the best position to win every week. More importantly, I want to see someone who can really make a difference there on the outside.

I'm not coming close to suggesting to "give up" on Dobson. That would be ridiculous. I can however, imagine him receiving 30 or so snaps per game, having another year to flourish, and having some specific plays drawn up to get him the ball, while we use a more talented and experienced player on the outside for various reasons.

 

[DocHoliday]

So let's go over possible WR/TE trades + signings to get up to a 90 man squad.

1.) Denario Alexander - tore his ACL for what seems like the millionth time. Definitely a talented player but unclear if he has any business running on a turf field. If the Pats took a flyer on him, he'd be on his last chance. (Some would say this year was his last chance). On the other hand, he's a clear #1 type player.

2.) Jeremy Maclin - Talented speedy player but never stood above and beyond his teammates in Philly. He'd be a complementary piece, one that I think Boyce can fulfill someday.

3.) Miles Austin - A likely cap casualty. At 6'2 he's a excellent WR all around the field but the name factor alone makes him an unlikely guy. He's also injured a lot, which makes him an excellent fit for this team.

4.) Scott Chandler - Jarius Byrd needs to get paid. My only issue is that Chandler looks like a Gronk but he doesn't produce like one. Maybe it's the QB. He's not that young either.

5.) Brandon Pettigrew - Looks like he has all the tools, but he's rated as a poor blocker and lost red zone snaps to one trick pony Joseph Fauria. If there's anything going for him, it's the fact that he'll probably come cheap.

6.) James Jones - Tall, somewhat strong, but clearly limited. At 29 he is what he is - a decent #3. Not sure why you'd go for this when you have three youngsters.

7.) Brandon LaFell - We saw a bit of him against Carolina. Typical underachieving guy with physical skills. He is 27 years old.

8.) Ed ****son - Basically as productive as Hooman.

9.) Fred Davis - Never really developed. Had injuries and a drug suspension.

10.) Johnathan Baldwin/AJ Jenkins - Different teams, same player, same bust-ness. Then again, neither have played with particularly good passers.

 

[supafly]

Improvements can be made, but in the end it comes down to Lady Luck in a game involving a funny shaped ball that can make some unpredictable bounces.

I agree that improvements can be made, particularly with some other kind of downfield offensive threat, although we're unlikely to see that in my opinion.

Kind of funny thinking about Manning's comments that "Brady will probably break the record next year." I don't even know what to say about that, but he certainly doesn't have anything close to that kind of firepower (not necessarily suggesting that we'd need it to advance, just that the comment in itself was strange to me).

As far as lady luck--she's been long gone missing for a good 10 years now when it comes to bigger game settings, outside of the missed FG by Baltimore in the 2011 AFCCG, which we couldn't even take advantage of.

The following SB game saw 4 NYG fumbles and NONE of them recovered by us. It also saw another late 4th quarter, last drive, 3rd and long crazy catch by a guy who admitted that he wore shoes that day that were a 1/2 size too small, and if he'd just worn his normal shoes, he'd have been out of bounds.

 

[Deus Irae]

Perhaps we should simply cut the injury prone players like Gronk, Vollmer, Dobson and Edelman and use the money on free agents. Is that YOUR plan? Will THAT plan really be expect to do better than getting in the championship game every year?

My plans have been posted on thread after thread, year after year. This year, if you're looking at the offense and assuming no pre-draft changes, my plan would involve using either a 1st or 3rd round pick on an interior OL (depending on whether the better choice in round 1 is DT or OL) and a TE in round 2.

Also, how do you cut Edelman? Are you suggesting they sign him just to cut him?

Also, I've already gone on record as expecting Amendola back because of his contract. They can't undo that.

Also, they need to at least double up on the O-line, unless they're going to move Cannon over to guard.

So, to sum up:

Address interior OL with a high round pick
Add high round TE
Add mid/low round OL

Also, they could keep with the tradition of bringing in china dolls, and look to a huge gamble like Danario Alexander, or they could bring in a steadying veteran presence like a Jerricho Cotchery.

 

[supafly]

2.) Jeremy Maclin - Talented speedy player but never stood above and beyond his teammates in Philly. He'd be a complementary piece, one that I think Boyce can fulfill someday.

I agree that both Dobson and Boyce should continue to improve and potentially be "that" kind of player....someday.

I have concerns that the "someday" will definitely occur in year #2, however.

I would much rather see them as guys who get targeted for bigger types of plays in the sense that Edelman was in the past, with role playing snaps totaling something in the 25-30 range (with starting capability should the guy in front go down) rather than definitely be depended upon in year #2.

This would also give us a great depth chart at the position from players 1-5 or 1-6.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Miles Austin would be great here. Injured every 4 weeks! Fit in well with DA. Even if he was a cap causality. Do not want

 

[supafly]

5.) Brandon Pettigrew - Looks like he has all the tools, but he's rated as a poor blocker and lost red zone snaps to one trick pony Joseph Fauria. If there's anything going for him, it's the fact that he'll probably come cheap.

Just goes to show you how all over the place our assessments are (not claiming that yours is incorrect), when guys like Rob have Pettigrew as being "expensive" compared to Anquan Boldin, who he felt will "come cheap."

 

[supafly]

Miles Austin would be great here. Injured every 4 weeks! Fit in well with DA. Even if he was a cap causality. Do not want

I think every player needs to be individually assessed in terms of value and cap hit.

Would I want Miles Austin for anything more than 1 million dollars or so? No.

Would I want to bring him in with others to compete for a cheaper kind of deal like the Michael Jenkins' and Donald Jones' of the world? Maybe. He can't honestly be that much worse than a lot of the castoffs we've seen lately who are competing for the WR4/5/6 spots.

Would I want him having to be relied upon to produce with a lot of snaps? Hell, no. We may as well scratch him off the list if anyone is looking at it that way.

I'm all for bringing in veteran castoffs though, in terms of cheap deals who can compete against each other for the bottom of the depth chart, unless of course--Belichick actually goes out and makes a move, which would pretty much solidify our depth chart aside from maybe one more spot.