The Official Patriots/Broncos Post Game Thread

[BradyFTW!]

According to Jason, $6.8m in dead money would accelerate against the cap if they cut/traded Amendola. He'll carry a 4.7 cap number if they keep him, so he actually costs an extra $2.1m to get rid of. Miguel's numbers are slightly different (they seem to disagree on the bonus, and I think that Miguel hasn't applied the roster bonus yet), but they're basically the same.

As to your question, I think there's going to be some real prioritizing, because the team's not going to be as flush with cap room this year. There's not another Brady extension coming.

I know that you adamantly disagree, but this is why I think they're going to make a hard-line stance with Wilfork this offseason. I think they'll try to extend him and reduce his cap hit, but if Vince won't play ball then cutting him and taking the $7.5M in cap savings is pretty much a no-brainer IMO.

There's really no other way to get themselves a lot of cap room. No other cut can save them more than $3M, and Wilfork is a giant question mark for 2014 anyway.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Is it possible to want the Rookies AND go get a proven WR? WR1 = ? (I am not sure who's out there besides Eric Decker), WR2 = Dobson, WR3 = Edelman, WR4 = Boyce, WR5 = Thompkins

I think Dobson will be the real deal. I have no idea what Amendola's cap deal is, but if we can get rid of him we should. I'd rather hang onto a 2nd year guy that could blossom (Thompkins/Boyce).

It's possible in theory, but not so much in reality based on the 2014 cap situation. The Pats don't have a lot of money to make FA signings, and have other pressing needs that don't have in-house solutions potentially in place already.

 

[Deus Irae]

I know that you adamantly disagree, but this is why I think they're going to make a hard-line stance with Wilfork this offseason. I think they'll try to extend him and reduce his cap hit, but if Vince won't play ball then cutting him and taking the $7.5M in cap savings is pretty much a no-brainer IMO.

There's really no other way to get themselves a lot of cap room. No other cut can save them more than $3M, and Wilfork is a giant question mark for 2014 anyway.

I keep hoping they'll learn that needlessly pissing off the top talent and wasting money on easy-to-spot terrible signings are bad business. That seems, to me, to be where BB has his biggest blind spots, outside of stupid gambles (as opposed to his smarter gambles, and yes I'm talking about something more than miss=bad, hit=good) in the second round of drafts.

I'm sure Wilfork knows that his number is too high, and I'm guessing that Wilfork will be willing to make an adjustment. I think we saw today though, yet again, why cutting him would be a very bad idea.

 

[ATippett56]

There's really no other way to get themselves a lot of cap room. No other cut can save them more than $3M, and Wilfork is a giant question mark for 2014 anyway.

The New England Patriots can cut the following players:

Adrian Wilson, 34 years old
Tommy Kelly, 33 years old
Isaac Sopoaga, 32 years old

Salary cap savings = $6.167 million

 

[moejr]

I dunno if it's an age thing, considering that it's been a problem ever since Moss was traded. I think it's just a skill that he doesn't really have, and unfortunately that robs the offense of a dimension that you really kinda need in the playoffs. He'll occasionally make a gorgeous deep pass (like the one to Vereen vs. Houston last season), but he's just way too inconsistent on throws of 20+ yards. He rarely hits his receiver in stride.

I think it's more likely that he was never a very good deep passer (that's what the eye test says), but Moss made him look good. Makes sense, Moss made a career out of looking guys like Gus Frerotte look good throwing the deep ball.

Moss is the only good deep threat he's had in his carreer.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I keep hoping they'll learn that needlessly pissing off the top talent and wasting money on easy-to-spot terrible signings are bad business. That seems, to me, to be where BB has his biggest blind spots, outside of stupid gambles (as opposed to his smarter gambles, and yes I'm talking about something more than miss=bad, hit=good) in the second round of drafts.



I'm sure Wilfork knows that his number is too high, and I'm guessing that Wilfork will be willing to make an adjustment. I think we saw today, yet again, why cutting him would be a very bad idea.

I agree that the bolded portion is most likely true (I sure hope it is) and I also agree that DT absolutely has to be addressed.

Here's a thought experiment though: if Wilfork was available as a FA for $7.5M, coming off his Achilles tear, would you want him? I don't think that I would.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2014 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

Current cap space: 5.7 million.

"No Brainer" Cap saving moves:

Cut Sopoaga: 2 million
Cut A. Wilson: .671 million
Extend Gost: 1-2 million

Real cap space: about 9 million

Cap saving moves that are tough decisions:

Gregory: 2.2 million (Is rolling with Harmon/Wilson as 2/3 safeties smart?)
Wilfork: 7.5 million (obvious)
Kelly: 1.7 million (He was a solid player before injury. If he rebounds, he may be worth it)

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree that the bolded portion is most likely true (I sure hope it is) and I also agree that DT absolutely has to be addressed.

Here's a thought experiment though: if Wilfork was available as a FA for $7.5M, coming off his Achilles tear, would you want him? I don't think that I would.

I couldn't really answer that without seeing his progress come signing time. On the one hand, he's what the team needs. On the other hand, the team's transition to the 4-3 had lessened his importance slightly, and his injury makes him a question mark. The thing is, though, that you'd still have to replace him, and Siliga is not the answer.

Here's the list. Where do you spend the money to shore up the position if you let Wilfork go?

WalterFootball.com: 2014 NFL Free Agents - Defensive Tackles

 

[BradyFTW!]

The New England Patriots can cut the following players:



Adrian Wilson, 34 years old

Tommy Kelly, 33 years old

Isaac Sopoaga, 32 years old



Salary cap savings = $6.167 million

This is true, but you're also restating what I already said. Cutting all three of those guys wit give them anything close to the cap room they need to address all of their current holes.

I also don't really get why cutting Kelly to save $2M makes a ton of sense. The $2m that they saved would just have to be reinvested in another (probably worse) DT.

 

[ATippett56]

I also don't really get why cutting Kelly to save $2M makes a ton of sense. The $2m that they saved would just have to be reinvested in another (probably worse) DT.

Counting on a 33 year old defensive player coming off a season ending injury is foolish.

In the last two years, the New England Patriots have drafted 11 defensive players:

Defensive Ends - 3
Linebackers - 3
Safeties - 3
Cornerbacks - 2

Notice which defensive position has been ignored in the draft?

http://www.pro-football-reference.c...os=ALL&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all

 

[Deus Irae]

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2014 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

Current cap space: 5.7 million.

"No Brainer" Cap saving moves:

Cut Sopoaga: 2 million
Cut A. Wilson: .671 million
Extend Gost: 1-2 million

Real cap space: about 9 million

Cap saving moves that are tough decisions:

Gregory: 2.2 million (Is rolling with Harmon/Wilson as 2/3 safeties smart?)
Wilfork: 7.5 million (obvious)
Kelly: 1.7 million (He was a solid player before injury. If he rebounds, he may be worth it)

My default is to cut Wilson/Wilson/Gregory, keep Kelly and Wilfork (via renegotiation), see what Spikes is asking for, look for a replacement safety via FA, and look at Grimes/Shields/Talib/Davis for the CB position.

My early look at the draft tells me that WR and TE (Troy Niklas) can be gotten in the draft in rounds 2-3, and I've seen mocks where high quality CBs and/or DTs fall to the Patriots in round 1. Obviously this is all still fluid....

 

[BradyFTW!]

I couldn't really answer that without seeing his progress come signing time. On the one hand, he's what the team needs. On the other hand, the team's transition to the 4-3 had lessened his importance slightly, and his injury makes him a question mark. The thing is, though, that you'd still have to replace him, and Siliga is not the answer.

Here's the list. Where do you spend the money to shore up the position if you let Wilfork go?

WalterFootball.com: 2014 NFL Free Agents - Defensive Tackles

Depending on how much they're willing to reinvest in another DT vs. using the savings elsewhere, a few guys on that list could be the answer. Joseph is great, but he would cost a ton.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if DT is the next position to get a full rotational overhaul in the draft. After placing a huge emphasis on it early in his time here, Belichick has neglected it in the draft for far too long (In 4-3 terms, Seymour and Warren were de facto DTs)

 

[BradyFTW!]

My default is to cut Wilson/Wilson/Gregory, keep Kelly and Wilfork (via renegotiation), see what Spikes is asking for, look for a replacement safety via FA, and look at Grimes/Shields/Talib/Davis for the CB position.

My early look at the draft tells me that WR and TE (Troy Niklas) can be gotten in the draft in rounds 2-3, and I've seen mocks where high quality CBs and/or DTs fall to the Patriots in round 1. Obviously this is all still fluid....

That sounds very similar to what I'm hoping for, although it sounds like I might be more comfortable with losing Spikes than you are. I don't like seeing Spikes and Hightower on the field together anyway, forces one of them to play hopelessly outside of his strengths. Would rather see an expanded role for Collins and a depth signing to try to keep guys like Fletcher off the field. If Spikes does re-sign, it would have to be for backup money.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2014 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

Current cap space: 5.7 million.

"No Brainer" Cap saving moves:

Cut Sopoaga: 2 million
Cut A. Wilson: .671 million
Extend Gost: 1-2 million

Real cap space: about 9 million

Cap saving moves that are tough decisions:

Gregory: 2.2 million (Is rolling with Harmon/Wilson as 2/3 safeties smart?)
Wilfork: 7.5 million (obvious)
Kelly: 1.7 million (He was a solid player before injury. If he rebounds, he may be worth it)

Cutting Connelly would save another $2.5M.

That would make it $11.5. Realistically you can add Vince's $7.5 which makes it $19M easily and try to get Vince back at a lower number.

$19M + hopefully something from Hernandez is very workable. Kelly would put it over $20M.

 

[Deus Irae]

That sounds very similar to what I'm hoping for, although it sounds like I might be more comfortable with losing Spikes than you are. I don't like seeing Spikes and Hightower on the field together anyway, forces one of them to play hopelessly outside of his strengths. Would rather see an expanded role for Collins and a depth signing to try to keep guys like Fletcher off the field. If Spikes does re-sign, it would have to be for backup money.

Collins/Hightower/Mayo scares the hell out of me.

 

[ATippett56]

Cutting Connelly would save another $2.5M.

That would make it $11.5. Realistically you can add Vince's $7.5 which makes it $19M easily and try to get Vince back at a lower number.

$19M + hopefully something from Hernandez is very workable. Kelly would put it over $20M.

Wendell is even worse than Connolly.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Collins/Hightower/Mayo scares the hell out of me.

That's a great sounding group. Spikes is gone, he was pretty much kicked off the team.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Wendell is even worse than Connolly.

He's a UFA, I don't want him back but he's not in the cap savings discussion.

 

[Deus Irae]

That's a great sounding group.

We must be watching different linebackers.

Spikes is gone, he was pretty much kicked off the team.

Depends on which story is true

 

[Sciz]

Wendell is even worse than Connolly.

And a free agent. I know lots of people would love for the Patriots to cut him, but they can't. The best they can do is to tell him to get out and come back if he wants vet minimum to be a backup.