What Would You Do In This Scenario?

[everlong]

Team's may be sorry for passing on him and the Texans could end up taking him, I'm not arguing with any of that, however saying it is lock is a mistake as it really isn't, and if i were going to bet on it i would bet that the texans trade the pick and a team like the Jags ends up taking him first. Right now i think Bridgewater is most likely to go first, but that doesn't mean the Texans will be the ones who take him.


Schaab was a pro bowl caliber QB just two seasons ago, and Keenum hasn't shown enough either way to be labelled as just another guy so i really don't know how you reached the conclusion both are jags.

A trade would make more sense if they didn't need a QB or if there was a second truly elite QB in the draft. Manziel is risky as hell and I don't think he'll work hard enough. His accuracy isn't great and he doesn't really read defenses. Bortles is going to make a lot of money off of one high profile game. I like Carr but he didn't play in a pro style offense but he's tougher to figure.

I can see them trading it to the Jags but they better be damn sure they have another QB in mind who can be the star. Trading in the division and seeing him twice a year.....So not a lock but I'd be surprised.

Shaub is only effective when the Texans are playing teams without QBs so he can manage the game. Without having Foster, Tate, a great O-Line and a great defense to allow him to throw only the most low risk passes he's not very good. Down by any margin it was always on the defense to create turnovers and win games. I saw enough of Keenan. He could be an effective backup.

 

[mayoclinic]

This is just for fun everyone.


We trade Mallett for Cleveland's 4th overall pick.

There are no takers for trading back or up. You have to pick at 4.

Clowney is off the board.


Who do you pick?


I have it down to four:

Khalil Mack
Mike Evans
Sammy Watkins
Darqueze Dennard


Mike Evans nearly gets it for me, but Sammy Watkins is so explosive that he becomes the pick. He can be used as a runner, receiver or returner and so long as Brady can throw him open, Watkins will eat up the yards. He's a combination of Cordarelle Patterson and Kendall Wright.

Following the letter of your scenario (no trade backs, which would never happen - BB would trade back at a discount, and fine takers), I'd go with Greg Robinson. Give me a dominant lineman any day.

BTW, I don't take Clowney even if he's available. I don't think he has the commitment, discipline, consistency, intensity, lack of selfishness or maturity that BB requires.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I will admit I'm feeling a little silly picking a WR given that Bill has never taken a WR in the first round. And maybe my love affair with Watkins was a little overdone due to his game in the bowl game a couple of days before.

The reality, though, is I'm looking at this now not long term. As much as I love Robinson or Mathews, we have Solder and Vollmer coming back. No RB, OG, C, TE, S worth it that high. That leaves WR, DL, LB, CB for me.

I'm passing on CB as we're set if we re-sign Talib and OK if we don't. LB, I like some of them but I just don't want to take one in the top five.

So I'm down to WR and DL. Mayo is right (on another thread I think) that we really need another DE. We have two and pretty much nothing else (assuming Armstead is more of a DT). I'm actually OK inside with Siliga, Vince (I think he'll be back), Armstead and Jones (as a rotation/pass rusher).

Which leaves me at DE and WR. I know WR can take 2-3 years but I'd really like to paid Watkins with Dobson outside. It might be overkill if KT or Boyce take a step forward. But for now I'm seeing KT as a really good backup/extra WR and I think Boyce may be the future in the slot. I'm envisioning Dobson, Watkins, Boyce at WR with Gronk at TE and Vereen at RB and feeling good about things to round out Brady's career.

The only exception to sticking with Watkins is if they're 100% convinced Clowney's commitment, discipline, consistency, intensity, lack of selfishness and maturity (copied without permission from Mayo above) are appropriate; if so I would take him in a second.

 

[Sfpat]

If the Pats trade Mallet for the #4 pick, I'd pick Brady's replacement, say Manziel or Bortles. Becomes an Aaron Rodgers, holdsthe clipboard for two-three years then takes over with the team not missing a beat.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Would getting a potential stud O-lineman lower the likelihood of having problems at QB?

No. Since we already have two acceptable LOTs. You don't need to spend such a high pick to secure a Probowl-level interior OL.

If BB has taught you anything at all, it is that is is impossible to afford a team in the CAP era, of All Pros, everywhere. You put them at the key positions and fill with good but not great players elsewhere,

The only positions meriting the best you can get is QB, DT, CB, MLB, and DE, but not necessarily in that specific order, but QB is definitely first.

 

[Snake Eyes]

No. Since we already have two acceptable LOTs. You don't need to spend such a high pick to secure a Probowl-level interior OL.

If BB has taught you anything at all, it is that is is impossible to afford a team in the CAP era, of All Pros, everywhere. You put them at the key positions and fill with good but not great players elsewhere,

The only positions meriting the best you can get is QB, DT, CB, MLB, and DE, but not necessarily in that specific order, but QB is definitely first.

I said O-line, not LT. The interior is where we're weakest on the O-line. The #4 pick on the field, protecting the GOAT, has more impact than it does sitting on the bench. I'd even use it on Sammy Watkins rather than keeping Mallett.

 

[AzPatsFan]

You are still daft. No interior OL is worth the forth pick in the first round. Period. As BB and Dante have said, you draft LOTs and move the weaker ones inside.


Yo have the right idea but despite Watkins skills, he is not big enough to be a game changer at Split End. If he were 6-4 220 like AJ Green, he might appeal but not at the cost of having no backup or successor candidate, at the most important position, QB

 

[Snake Eyes]

You are still daft. No interior OL is worth the forth pick in the first round. Period. As BB and Dante have said, you draft LOTs and move the weaker ones inside.


Yo have the right idea but despite Watkins skills, he is not big enough to be a game changer at Split End. If he were 6-4 220 like AJ Green, he might appeal but not at the cost of having no backup or successor candidate, at the most important position, QB

There’s no need to call me “daft”, if you think my reasoning is flawed just explain why and we can go from there.

Next, why do I want to draft a LT if my goal is to kick him inside? I’m probably not going to get as good of an evaluation since he’s not doing the job that I’ll be drafting him to do, all other things being equal.

Also, although conventional ‘wisdom’ says interior O-linemen aren’t worth early picks I think that’s nonsense, and it seems teams agree with me. Jonathon Cooper was drafted at #7 last year. My concern is on the impact that player can provide for my team, who can best help my team win it all? I don’t care about a preconceived notion about what a position is worth, who gives me the best bang for my buck?

As far as Watkins goes, he’s 6’1, that will work fine for someone on the outside. For comparison, Marvin Harrison is only 6’0, Greg Jennings is 5’11. I’m MUCH more concerned about a player’s movement skills than just raw height. That being said, being shorter actually has some advantages, it allows a player to cut more easily which can aid in route running.

Just because we trade Mallett for #4 doesn’t mean we don’t have a backup, it just means we spend a later pick on a QB (Jimmy Garoppolo is my current binkie) or pick one up in free agency.

There’s risk no matter what way you go, it’s possible that TFB goes down on the first snap of 2014 and Mallett becomes the best QB ever, but it’s more likely that Mallett sits on the bench with TFB at the helm.

I’d rather spend that pick protecting Brady or giving him someone to throw to.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I apologize for calling you daft. I should have labled you as thoughtlessly misguided.

I don't know who said it first, but both Bill and Dante have said. You draft LOTs and move the weaker ones inside.

Why? Simply because LOTs are the generally the best athletes on a teams Offensive line, and the most accomplished in Pass blocking,a skill more needed in the NFL.

Of course if you traded Mallett for a draft pick, you could and would get a replacement backup.

But instead of paying 3/4 of a $ million a year, you can plan on spending $2.5 million or so of your CAP. And then spend an equivalent draft pick on someone to groom, too. Or maybe you want o gamble with a raw rookie? BB has never done so before. His rookie backups get at least a year before they are given the backup status. How does that outcome put you ahead of the game?

It doesn't.

That marginal difference may be enough to keep a Talib or a Minitron. So once again why do you wan to trade a cheap, trained, backup, who just might be a pretty good QB?

Simply so you can pluck another name from Mel Kiper's draft review?

 

[ausbacker]

It's really simple for me. It's one of three scenarios - protect Brady, give Brady another weapon or add an impact player on D. If the Patriots team is assumed to be the same roster it entered season 2013 with, then I'm probably inclined to go with Khalil Mack or Anthony Barr to play OLB. Brady can make caviar out of sand and truthfully, I'd like to give him an elite D.

A front 7 of Jones, Wilfork (or whoever), Ninkovich and a LB brigade consisting of Collins, Mayo, Hightower and Mack/Barr looks damn sexy on paper.

Get the front 7 sorted and hope Harmon comes on to replace Gregory and the D suddenly looks in more than reasonable shape (assuming Talib is re-signed of course).

 

[Snake Eyes]

I don't know who said it first, but both Bill and Dante have said. You draft LOTs and move the weaker ones inside.

Why? Simply because LOTs are the generally the best athletes on a teams Offensive line, and the most accomplished in Pass blocking,a skill more needed in the NFL

Drafting a LT and moving them inside certainly happens but it’s a lot more common with mid-late round picks, interior players selected early on often stay on the interior. Alex Mack, who I’d love to have here was a Center in college, Chance Warmack was a Guard as was Jonathon Cooper, Larry Warford was and is a guard, and he’s been beastly this year. There’s also David DeCastro, I could go on and on but your assertion that it’s just LTs that are moved to the inside is simply incorrect.

That said, suppose they want to go with an LT, I’m actually ok with it. If the player has potential value on the inside, great. If they’re only useful on the outside I’ll take it as well. Vollmer is racking up the miles and Solder’s concussion issues are troubling. Even as a rookie Solder saw the field and provided value

Of course if you traded Mallett for a draft pick, you could and would get a replacement backup.

Or maybe you want o gamble with a raw rookie? BB has never done so before.

See Hoyer, Brian.

You didn’t address my point about using #4 to draft a receiver or TE, giving TFB Sammy Watkins or Jace Amaro will improve the offense, either one of those players will see the field plenty.

So, sitting on the bench doesn’t provide you with much value, producing on the field does. Using #4 on someone who will probably see a lot of action will provide more production than someone who will probably sit on the bench.

In other words, you don't spend an early 1st round pick on a backup QB.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Drafting a LT and moving them inside certainly happens but it’s a lot more common with mid-late round picks, interior players selected early on often stay on the interior. Alex Mack, who I’d love to have here was a Center in college, Chance Warmack was a Guard as was Jonathon Cooper, Larry Warford was and is a guard, and he’s been beastly this year. There’s also David DeCastro, I could go on and on but your assertion that it’s just LTs that are moved to the inside is simply incorrect.

That said, suppose they want to go with an LT, I’m actually ok with it. If the player has potential value on the inside, great. If they’re only useful on the outside I’ll take it as well. Vollmer is racking up the miles and Solder’s concussion issues are troubling. Even as a rookie Solder saw the field and provided value

Of course if you traded Mallett for a draft pick, you could and would get a replacement backup.



See Hoyer, Brian.




You didn’t address my point about using #4 to draft a receiver or TE, giving TFB Sammy Watkins or Jace Amaro will improve the offense, either one of those players will see the field plenty.

So, sitting on the bench doesn’t provide you with much value, producing on the field does. Using #4 on someone who will probably see a lot of action will provide more production than someone who will probably sit on the bench.

In other words, you don't spend an early 1st round pick on a backup QB.

Hoyer was Not the designated backup his first season Her ascended as a soph. For that matter TFB was not as a rookie, either. He actually was fourth string but active. He ascended to backup as a soph, and to successor 2 games into ihs soph season.

Every year there are stupid teams which waste draft picks. To do so, you don't need to draft a bust. You can simply draft a good player at a non critical position that you can't afford to pay long term. The CAP won't let you keep Pro bowlers everywhere, so you get them at the key positions.

Drafting a G, or a P, or a K, or a kick snapper, in round one are examples of wasting a draft pick. That is what BB and Dante meant.

Nothing is more useless than a backup QB... until you need him. Then he is desperately needed. Then he is invaluable. In today's Patriot situation, unlike 2008, we are in the concluding years of TFB's HOF career, which unlike 2008 could happen on any play. So there is another consideration too, the preparation for a possible successor. The best preparation was Green Bay's Favre to Rodgers transition.

Neither Watkins nor Amaro have future HOF in their profiles, Watkins is too small, and I don't see Amaro as having those attributes. Top five picks are too important to waste that way.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Hoyer was Not the designated backup his first season Her ascended as a soph. For that matter TFB was not as a rookie, either. He actually was fourth string but active. He ascended to backup as a soph, and to successor 2 games into ihs soph season.

That's just not true.

Brian Hoyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2009 New England Patriots season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He went undrafted in 09 and him and TFB were the only 2 QBs on the roster in 09.

Every year there are stupid teams which waste draft picks. To do so, you don't need to draft a bust. You can simply draft a good player at a non critical position that you can't afford to pay long term. The CAP won't let you keep Pro bowlers everywhere, so you get them at the key positions.

Nothing is more useless than a backup QB... until you need him. Then he is desperately needed. Then he is invaluable. In today's Patriot situation, unlike 2008, we are in the concluding years of TFB's HOF career, which unlike 2008 could happen on any play. So there is another consideration too, the preparation for a possible successor. The best preparation was Green Bay's Favre to Rodgers transition.

Neither Watkins nor Amaro have future HOF in their profiles, Watkins is too small, and I don't see Amaro as having those attributes. Top five picks are too important to waste that way.

- Every player is always 1 play away from retirement, that doesn't mean teams are going to spend a 1st round pick on a backup QB.

- TFB is holding up very well, it's very possible he could play for another 4-5yrs if he's protected well, stud O-linemen help with that.

- If BB is so convinced that Mallett is the heir why did he try so hard to give Tebow the opportunity to get the backup job? Oh, I know, it's because the Pats don't want people to know how good he is.

- Watkins and Amaro won't be HoF players, you know this how? What about Jake Matthews, does he have a HoF bloodline?

- So because Rodgers turned out to be phenomenal Mallett is going to be that good?

So, if the backup QB is critical isn't the starting QB even more critical? Doesn't that mean it's critical to protect the starting QB?

 

[dryheat44]

If I'm in a fantasy world where we can get the #4 overall pick for a guy who hasn't played a meaningful snap in three years, I'm going to expand the fantasy to be able to trade back. We'll be needing immediate help at TE, MLB, possibly CB and WR and pipeline replenishing at S, DT, DE, and CB.

 

[Snake Eyes]

If I'm in a fantasy world where we can get the #4 overall pick for a guy who hasn't played a meaningful snap in three years, I'm going to expand the fantasy to be able to trade back. We'll be needing immediate help at TE, MLB, possibly CB and WR and pipeline replenishing at S, DT, DE, and CB.

Ahh, but for this fantasy scenario no trade backs are allowed