The OFFICIAL Patriots vs. Browns Post Game Thread

[DaBruinz]

compounding factor is our top rookie WRs are also injured and AD was seen in a boot today. Doesnt help .

AD being in a boot is standard procedure for a foot sprain. They want to take any pressure away from the front part of the foot and put it on the heel.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: J Gordon gave the Patriots a slit throat at 19-3.

Folks, sorry, I just got back to this thread. I didn't think it deserved a penalty because I forgot the rule against it, so I never clarified where he did it.

He didn't do it in the end zone, he did it as he was coming up the field on the Cleveland sideline after the TD. The camera was right on him, up close. It wasn't a long distance thing. It was the sideline cameraman and he was no more than 5 feet from Gordon. The whole screen was Gordon's upper body and then the throat slit gesture.

WOW. Gordon will surely get a fine for that.

 

[DaBruinz]

Just because you disagree with one aspect or decision doesn’t make you less of a fan. I love my wife and believe in her very much but sometimes she does things I question or have concerns with it doesn’t make me less of husband.

BLah.. Blah blah.. ( I hate Amendola)

As far as Amendola I said one of the biggest failures of the 2013 free agent class, can you dispute this? Has his signing been a success, are there a lot of players who have been bigger failures than Amendola?

It is not a witch hunt it is an assessment based on the cost of his contract and others who received similar contracts, in that group Amendola is one of the biggest failures and if you want to say otherwise I think you should do so with some context other than “good grief”.

How I come to form my opinion is by looking at this:

Bowe (was never a free agent. re-signed before free agency started)
Wallace
Jennings
Welker
Amendola
Edelman
Hartline (was never a free agent. re-signed before free agency started)

In no particular order those were the wide receivers considered to be in the top 100 of free agent wide receivers this past off season. Amendola has the least receptions, receiving yards and touchdowns of any of them so that says to me he is the biggest failure of the wide receiver group this past offseason, now before you roll off a post of excuses I just want to say justifying an outcome does not change the outcome, I said this in a post yesterday if this summer it is revealed that Hernandez and his associates accidently killed Lloyd it does not change the fact that they killed him, maybe they will receive a lighter sentence but there will still be a sentence and some level of accountability for their actions. To expect that everything is going to perfectly according to plan and there will be no adversity to overcome is a childish conjecture, adults know that it is likely that a nagging injury or something will linger with them and impact them and they prepare to overcome it. Danny has a groin injury as does Arrington and many others in the NFL nobody promised him perfect health when he signed that contract, to whom much is given much is expected even in the face of adversity. Does Belichick accept injuries and let the team lose at will? Nope not even a little bit.


Blah. Blah. Blah. (I hate Amendola and ignore facts.)

Alright already. We know that you hate the Amendola signing. No one here cares anymore because you refuse to stop using subjective stats and comparisons to make your arguments. You clearly don't let facts get in the way of your bias.

Wes Welker: $6.15 million in new money. 73 receptions / 788 yards/ 10 TDs
Greg Jennings: $13 million in new money this year. 48 receptions / 570 yards/ 3 TDs
Mike Wallace: $12 million in new money this year. 58 receptions/ 762 yards / 3 TDs
Danny Amendola: $8.5 million in new money this year. 44 receptions / 448 yards/ 2 TDs

Understanding:
Welker is a slot receiver.
Amendola is a slot receiver.
Jennings is an outside receiver.
Wallace is an outside receiver.
Patriots typically haven't targeted WR in the Red Zone when Gronkowski has been available.

 

[Zeus]

They would be very unreasonable. I am talking about an offensive coordinator who most likely most have never exchange so much as a friendly smile or nod with. I am also offering an opinion on him as a coach and not his character. That shouldn't prompt any person to lash out and refer to someone as a ****.

Zeus do you think if Josh heard someone offering an opinion on your performance at work he would call that person a ****?

Boy, am I confused. You are the one who volunteered that you are "trying not to sound like a ****." This means that even you are concerned that you may be coming across that way. You might benefit from paying more attention to that concern.

You seem intent on bombarding the entire board with a series of bizarre rants in which you blame Josh McDaniels for everthing from global warming to erectile dysfunction. There's not an iota of objective thought or clear-headed analysis in any of those posts.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but at some point, you cross the line into being mindlessly argumentative. It's tiresome. It's okay to state your opinion and move on. You don't have to argue at great length with everyone who disagrees with you.

 

[DaBruinz]

No but he does coach the offense during the week so if the players are not executing properly then they’re not being coached and prepared properly.

This is clearly spouted by someone who has never coached or been coached in his life..

 

[DaBruinz]

You know that Josh is responsible for the lack of execution as well right? That’s why he works more than just Sundays, he is supposed to study film, coach the players, improve techniques, work with the positional coaches on the players strengths and weakness, stuff like that.

I also think that since the Miami game Brady has been willing this team to victories in the second half and the game plan still sucks – like calling a halfback draw on before Edelman caught his touchdown.

So, you put all the blame on McDaniels and none on Belichick, Scarnecchia, Fears, Peppers, Patricia, Johnson, O'Shea, or the other coaches. The POSITION Coaches are the ones responsible for execution of techniques. The OC and DC are responsible for the execution of any given play by their respective players. And the HC is responsible for the over-all execution of the TEAM.

Your post screams that you do not understand what actually goes into game planning and who does it. If you did, you'd know that it's not done just by McDaniels. Brady is involved in it as are all the other position coaches AND Belichick.

If you want to have any credibility in these discussions, I suggest you get yourself a copy of Patriot Reign and familiarize yourself with it. Then you wouldn't be on here making the mis-informed posts that you are making.

 

[Kontradiction]

Pro-tip: The icon with the piece of paper and the plus sign in the bottom, right-hand corner is for multi-quote.

 

[DaBruinz]

I have to be honest buddy and I am not trying to sound like a **** but the fact you think in his 13th season Tom Brady has just become this poor QB who cannot execute in the first half of football games is foolish, the fact is this team has been struggling since last season and the only difference to the structure is McDaniels. He is not prepare his offense and he is not developing the correct game plan if you have any question about that you should re-watch the games we have played in the second half.

Without McDaniels

• 4 SB trips
• 3 SB victories
• 2 seasons w/ 100.0 QB rating or higher
• 2 seasons w/ 35+ touchdowns
• 3 seasons w/ 65% completion percentage or higher

With McDaniels

• 1 SB trip
• 0 SB victories
• 1 season w/100.0 QB rating or higher
• 1 season w/ 35+ touchdowns or higher
• 1 season w/ 65% completion percentage or higher

All the things listed under with Josh were accomplished in the 2007 season. There is no question in my mind if someone is to blame for execution issues on offense it is McDaniels and not TFB.

Your facts are wrong, per usual.

New England Patriots: Josh McDaniels

2001/2002 - Personal Assistant to Belichick (Pats win SB)
2003 - Defensive Assistant
2004 - QB COACH (Hence INTEGRAL part of team) (Pats win SB)
2005 - QB Coach (Unofficial Offensive Coordinator)
2006 - 2008 - Offensive Coordinator (Pats Goto SB in 2007)
Jan-2012 - Offensive Assistant - Pats in SB.

So, even if we disregard the last SB, McDaniels was on the team for 4 of the 5 SBs and the 3 wins. Of which, he was the QB Coach for one of them. 2004.

Brady's BEST season in terms of completions %, TDs, and QB Rating came with McDaniels as the OC.

Now, to further blow up your argument.

In the years that Brady had a QBR over 100, the Pats didn't win the SB. And it didn't matter whether it was McDaniels or O'Brien. So that makes QBR irrelevant. In fact, most people disregard QBR since it's not an official NFL stat.

Also, in the years where Brady surpassed 30 TDs, he's never won a SB.

Lastly, in the years where Brady has surpassed 65% completion, he's never won a SB.

Summation: Your argument against Josh McDaniels and your reasoning flawed. Your attempt to use facts was greatly flawed because you clearly do not know the history of the coach in question. Your understanding of how to measure an Offensive Coordinator is a zero based on what you've posted. You didn't bother to support the idea that McDaniels Offense fails to prepare the players effectively and discount the opposing defense actually showing up and playing the game.

Lastly, until you improve your understanding of football in general, nevermind what it takes to be able to say that an OC (or any coach) is or isn't doing his job properly, you will have no credibility and will continue to be schooled by myself and others to the point of embarrassment.

 

[DaBruinz]

Add another fun fact to the mix of me KILLING McDaniels – Brady’s only seasons since 2005 with a passer rating below 95.0 all occurred with McDaniels as the coach (2005*, 2006, 2013).

That is 3/5 seasons with McDaniels below 95.0 and 3 combined with all other coaches and those three all occurred in his first 3 seasons as a starter.

*Technically QB coach but was calling plays.

McDaniels was the QB coach in 2004. Brady's QBR was 92.6.
Passer rating has as much to do with the receivers as it does the QB.

Brady has had 7 seasons (excluding this one since it's not over and it's been rising) under 95 to this point. 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008. 2008 is an aberration since it was only 1 game. McDaniels was with the team all of those years.

What you fail to mention is that ALL of them were in Brady's first 6 years as a QB. (Maturation of a QB maybe? )

What makes 95 the magic cutoff for QBR?

Last I looked, the 2013 season isn't over. There are still 3 games to play and Brady could easily raise his QBR over 95.

Just another fun fact to me blowing up your cherry picking worthless stats in your fruitless attempt to demonize Josh McDaniels.

 

[DaBruinz]

Pro-tip: The icon with the piece of paper and the plus sign in the bottom, right-hand corner is for multi-quote.

pro tip. No one asked for your pro tip. Different posts with different issues. Helps to understand that.

 

[Brady6]

So wait, you think McDaniels is responsible for rookies WR's dropping catchable passes and running the wrong option routes when they look at the defense and are supposed to make the same adjustments as Brady?

• Thompkins has not dropped a pass since the Jets game and has caught 9/14 balls thrown his way.
• Aaron Dobson has not even been targeted on a pass since the Carolina game and before that he had 1 drop since the Saints game.
• Josh Boyce has caught 4/6 balls thrown his way since he was implemented into the offense in the past 2 weeks.

Since the bye week these are the snaps/plays and percentages of the rookie:

• Boyce – 90/300 = 30.00%
• Dobson – 90/300 = 30.00%
• Thompkins – 73/300 = 24.33%

So to throw the question back your way – are you suggesting that the rookies are the reason the team has scored 10 points since the bye week?

For the record though if in week 13 of the NFL season the rookie wide receivers are still running the wrong routes or making the incorrect adjustments than yes I blame Josh he is the coach of the offensive unit and should be correcting these issues along with the receivers coach who reports to Josh.

 

[Brady6]

Alright already. We know that you hate the Amendola signing. No one here cares anymore because you refuse to stop using subjective stats and comparisons to make your arguments. You clearly don't let facts get in the way of your bias.

Wes Welker: $6.15 million in new money. 73 receptions / 788 yards/ 10 TDs
Greg Jennings: $13 million in new money this year. 48 receptions / 570 yards/ 3 TDs
Mike Wallace: $12 million in new money this year. 58 receptions/ 762 yards / 3 TDs
Danny Amendola: $8.5 million in new money this year. 44 receptions / 448 yards/ 2 TDs

Understanding:
Welker is a slot receiver.
Amendola is a slot receiver.
Jennings is an outside receiver.
Wallace is an outside receiver.
Patriots typically haven't targeted WR in the Red Zone when Gronkowski has been available.

I don’t hate Amendola, I do not even know the man and I do not hate people I have never met, I am assessing his performance which has not been up to the level of expectations set by fans and by his salary.

Did you not consider Amendola as the replacement for Wes Welker at the time he was signed? I did and I am pretty sure that everyone else did as well; so consider the fact that at this same point last season Wes Welker had 95 receptions for 1116 receiving yards and how can you not be disappointed in the Amendola who has 41 receptions for 448 receiving yards currently, that means the replacement currently has 57% less receptions and 60% less receiving yards than the player he was brought in to replace. I understand that Amendola is injured and that he missed 4 games but in Welker’s first 9 games last season he had nearly double the yards of Amendola has and if you recall he was not a big part of the offense in week 1 and 2 last year.

I am not trying to feud with you honestly I think you say a lot of great things on here and I like the fact you defend the players even to a fault you have loyalty and that’s commendable, personally if I was being asked by another teams fan of New I would defend Amendola and any other player we have but on here amongst my fellow fans I try and be objective and look at the entire scope of things. I can look at a player like Edelman and go at great length how fantastic he has been and how impressed I have been, on the flip side I look at Amendola and I have not been impressed overall there have been times that I have been but full scope he has under delivered this year.

 

[DaBruinz]

What the heck is the problem with the O-line? They've been horrid the last few games. I was impressed Brady didn't lose his cool despite being humped by the Browns Dline on every play.

This is almost as bad as Brady6's attacks on McDaniels.

One was clearly a miscommunication. The one where Brady took a 7 step drop but Solder blocked as if only a 5 step drop was called.

The 4th quarter sack by Kruger is on Brady. He stepped right up into it even though Svitek with Kruger was basically in front of him the entire time.

Now, the other two, yeah. They were bad. Svitek just got owned on the one. The other one came up the middle and behind the pulling Mankins..

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: J Gordon gave the Patriots a slit throat at 19-3.

Why the hell is the slit-throat motion illegal?

God, we're such a country of sniveling, apologetic little men...

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone sometimes.

You really have to ask that?? It's been illegal in the NFL for decades because it sends a bad image. You don't want your players sending the image that they are killers.

 

[DaBruinz]

yes....the run defense was not the problem

the coverage assignments were horrible however, and in some cases appeared they didn't exist at all (as with the jordan TD in the red zone......not one defender was cognizent of a pass catching TE releasing in the redzone out of a formation that had nobody wide......that is beyone the players which is why I said patricia sucks......and yeah, BB has his hands in the stew, but to miss something like this is on the DC. the most obvious case, but the no-assignment thing was happening the entire game

That falls on the players as much as the coach. Whomever was wearing the green dot is supposed to spot that and make the call to ensure it gets covered based on what is called in.

 

[DaBruinz]

• Thompkins has not dropped a pass since the Jets game and has caught 9/14 balls thrown his way.
• Aaron Dobson has not even been targeted on a pass since the Carolina game and before that he had 1 drop since the Saints game.
• Josh Boyce has caught 4/6 balls thrown his way since he was implemented into the offense in the past 2 weeks.

Since the bye week these are the snaps/plays and percentages of the rookie:

• Boyce – 90/300 = 30.00%
• Dobson – 90/300 = 30.00%
• Thompkins – 73/300 = 24.33%

So to throw the question back your way – are you suggesting that the rookies are the reason the team has scored 10 points since the bye week?

For the record though if in week 13 of the NFL season the rookie wide receivers are still running the wrong routes or making the incorrect adjustments than yes I blame Josh he is the coach of the offensive unit and should be correcting these issues along with the receivers coach who reports to Josh.

Since the bye, the Patriots have scored 115 points. Did you mean to say that they have only scored 10 points in the first half of the games since the bye?

Again, you don't understand that it's not Josh McDaniels responsibility to make sure that the proper routes are being run. It is the responsibility of Chad O'Shea. Now, if you want to run it all the way up the chain, it should be the fault of O'Shea, McDaniels, Scarnecchia and Belichick. In that order. And, Scarnecchia is mentioned because he is the Assistant Head coach of the team.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don’t hate Amendola, I do not even know the man and I do not hate people I have never met, I am assessing his performance which has not been up to the level of expectations set by fans and by his salary.

What expectations? Anyone who expected him to step in and do what Welker did immediately was fooling themselves. Fan EXPECTATIONS, particularly those of ignorant fans who clearly have never played the game, have never been coached in any game, or ever been a coach for a game really don't know what the expectations should be. Furthermore, the season isn't over yet.

Did you not consider Amendola as the replacement for Wes Welker at the time he was signed? I did and I am pretty sure that everyone else did as well; so consider the fact that at this same point last season Wes Welker had 95 receptions for 1116 receiving yards and how can you not be disappointed in the Amendola who has 41 receptions for 448 receiving yards currently, that means the replacement currently has 57% less receptions and 60% less receiving yards than the player he was brought in to replace. I understand that Amendola is injured and that he missed 4 games but in Welker’s first 9 games last season he had nearly double the yards of Amendola has and if you recall he was not a big part of the offense in week 1 and 2 last year.

That is the problem. Your expectations are out of whack with reality. In fact, you aren't in touch with reality because I posted the stats of 3 of the players you mentioned and only one of them had ANY comparison because they played the same position. Something you have refused to acknowledge.

You pulling numbers out of your rear end when the season isn't even over shows how pathetic your argument is. Your comparing a FULL season of Welker to a season of Amendola that isn't finished. And you want us to not question your thinking?

Oh, and lets forget about the fact that Welker had Gronkowski AND Hernandez opening things up for him. Something that Amendola only had half of that for, what, 5 games?

I am not trying to feud with you honestly I think you say a lot of great things on here and I like the fact you defend the players even to a fault you have loyalty and that’s commendable, personally if I was being asked by another teams fan of New I would defend Amendola and any other player we have but on here amongst my fellow fans I try and be objective and look at the entire scope of things. I can look at a player like Edelman and go at great length how fantastic he has been and how impressed I have been, on the flip side I look at Amendola and I have not been impressed overall there have been times that I have been but full scope he has under delivered this year.

For you to "feud with me", you'd actually have to be capable of having a cogent argument. You haven't. Not on any level. You cherry pick information and try to get others to believe what you want and you fail miserably.

 

[Brady6]

Since the bye, the Patriots have scored 115 points. Did you mean to say that they have only scored 10 points in the first half of the games since the bye?



Again, you don't understand that it's not Josh McDaniels responsibility to make sure that the proper routes are being run. It is the responsibility of Chad O'Shea. Now, if you want to run it all the way up the chain, it should be the fault of O'Shea, McDaniels, Scarnecchia and Belichick. In that order. And, Scarnecchia is mentioned because he is the Assistant Head coach of the team.

The offensive coordinator typically has a number of assistant coaches working under him, usually coaches primarily responsible for the various offensive positions. If something is not going properly on offense it falls under McDaniels chain of command.

Yes I meant in the first half of games in terms of 10 points.

 

[jsull87]

• Thompkins has not dropped a pass since the Jets game and has caught 9/14 balls thrown his way.
• Aaron Dobson has not even been targeted on a pass since the Carolina game and before that he had 1 drop since the Saints game.
• Josh Boyce has caught 4/6 balls thrown his way since he was implemented into the offense in the past 2 weeks.

Since the bye week these are the snaps/plays and percentages of the rookie:

• Boyce – 90/300 = 30.00%
• Dobson – 90/300 = 30.00%
• Thompkins – 73/300 = 24.33%

So to throw the question back your way – are you suggesting that the rookies are the reason the team has scored 10 points since the bye week?

For the record though if in week 13 of the NFL season the rookie wide receivers are still running the wrong routes or making the incorrect adjustments than yes I blame Josh he is the coach of the offensive unit and should be correcting these issues along with the receivers coach who reports to Josh.

Why is it you blame Josh but not the possition coach? if the WR's aren't running their routes isn't it the WR coach's job to teach said WR these routes each week not Josh? Isn't it Josh's job to coordinate the offense and come up with a game plan ans scheme?

If brady throws a quick out to Amendola and the ball bounces... is that Josh's fault? If Ridley Fumbles is that Josh's fault? does he now need to micromanage the RB's as well? What about if Mulligan misses a block? Is the Josh's fault and now he needs to take mulligan aside and teach him how to block?

Thats the reason for possition coaches, to McDaniels doesn't have to micromanage. Mcdaniels says "this is the play we want it run this way" it is then up to the possition coaches to teach the technique to run that play effectivley. Not Mcdaniels.


IMO you seem to be giving every player and position coach a pass but heaping blame directly on McDaniels. Personally i think that shows a lack of understanding about how the delegation process works on any team's coaching staff.

 

[jsull87]

The offensive coordinator typically has a number of assistant coaches working under him, usually coaches primarily responsible for the various offensive positions. If something is not going properly on offense it falls under McDaniels chain of command.

Yes I meant in the first half of games in terms of 10 points.

By this logic. Mcdaniels falls under BB's chain of command. BB is directly responsible for Dobson dropping that long ball for not going out the week before and teaching him to keep his eyes on the ball. BB falls under Kraft's chain of command. Kraft should therefore get down there and teach Ridley to hold it high and tight.

As i said before if it were up to BB, Mcdaniels, Patricia and Krafte e.t.c to micro manage this stuff then the organisation would just not work.