Amendola?

[manxman2601]

I don’t have any agenda against him man seriously; I just don’t think he is doing a good job. I want him to succeed but I am not going to defend him, Edelman has consistently been the better player this season and the more reliable one and for that reason I would prefer to see Julian continue to receive the starter reps over Danny. With a full offseason to recover me hope Danny can come in during 2014 and be a stud but if I was a betting man I would not wager on that happening.

I am not saying he is a bust Ivan, I am saying he is not Welker 2.0 he is a player that will have 3-4 excellent games a season if he plays 16 games and then be average or non-existent in the rest of the games, that is what he has been throughout his 4 year career and that is what he has been in his time here thus far. As I said I don’t deem that a bust, I just don’t feel it is worth $5 million and given the hype behind Danny Amendola it is hard not to come to the realizations that he is not going to be what the hype was speculating this season and given his being less than 2 years from 30 years old it is unlikely that his becoming Wes Welker 2.0 will ever transpire.

I am sorry you find what I say to be idiotic it is not my intent, I am actually attempting to provide a detailed response to your posts and not intending to take any shots at you or Danny Amendola, I want him like all Patriots players to succeed to the very best of their ability, the difference between our positions is you’re willing to accept his performance based on circumstances you deem outside of his control, I am not willing to accept it and find his performance this season to be disappointing and below my expectations.

You wanted to cut him after about four weeks of the season.

 

[Huckleberry1]

That could be true, I hope Amendola can be a WR1, but too tell you the truth he looks more like a WR2. The main reason is because on short throws he's not great at YAC and is not physical enough to be a dominant outside receiver. He is a very good route runner who can stretch the field and is good on deep outs. I see him at best being Antonio Brown, but more in that Nate Burleson, Miles Austin (when he produced in Dallas), etc... That's still pretty good and valuable for us considering we have Gronk and Vereen and hopefully Edelman stays healthy

I don't think the #1 /#2 ....receivers apply in NE. I think Gronkowski is the one receiver who is going to be a big part of every game, and the others will be used as the game plan and game situations and coverages apply. unless they come across another Randy Moss the WR's are going to be somewhat interchangeable, and while Thompkins may have a good game thisz week next week it could be Dobson or Edelman etc....I do think they have roles with Dobson being a guy they are going to look downfield to and Amendola a slot guy but how much they are used will depend entirely upon the game.

 

[Deus Irae]

That could be true, I hope Amendola can be a WR1, but too tell you the truth he looks more like a WR2. The main reason is because on short throws he's not great at YAC and is not physical enough to be a dominant outside receiver. He is a very good route runner who can stretch the field and is good on deep outs. I see him at best being Antonio Brown, but more in that Nate Burleson, Miles Austin (when he produced in Dallas), etc... That's still pretty good and valuable for us considering we have Gronk and Vereen and hopefully Edelman stays healthy

I don't think it was coincidental that the Patriots offense took flight after DRC left that game. At that point, the Broncos were missing both starting CBs and (at least) one starting safety, and it became a much easier defense to exploit. I don't think Denver was stopping Brady even before that (turnovers were doing that) but DRC's idiocy all but guaranteed a "Katy, bar the door" type of situation for the Broncos which allowed the Patriots to move the ball almost at will in the second half.

Prior to that, the Patriots WRs were looking very pedestrian.


As for Amendola, I look at him as a lesser version of WWW, with a bit more comfort on the outside, but a lot less ability to take the punishment on the inside.

 

[primetime]

Burleson, Austin, Brown, and Amendola are four pretty different players. Burleson's a former speedster who has managed to reinvent himself as a decent but unspectacular player who benefits from playing opposite the best receiver in football. Austin's career is all but done because of knee problems but when he was at the top of his game was a WR1. Brown's now one of the best receivers in the league.

$5m a year really isn't the steep price Brady6 is making it out to be, either. Miles Austin is making over $9m, Santonio Holmes $8.4m, Sidney Rice $8.2m, Mike Williams nearly $8m, Brian Hartline $6.15m. Redskins fans couldn't have been happy last year about Pierre Garcon's $8.5m, but they're probably pretty content with it now.

Among veterans, Amendola's salary is comparable to Santana Moss, Devin Hester, Eddie Royal, Josh Morgan, Nate Washington, and Nate Burleson. At that price point, Amendola looks closer to a steal than a disappointment even if he's only 'good for 3-4 great games every year.'

 

[Huckleberry1]

Burleson, Austin, Brown, and Amendola are four pretty different players. Burleson's a former speedster who has managed to reinvent himself as a decent but unspectacular player who benefits from playing opposite the best receiver in football. Austin's career is all but done because of knee problems. Brown's one of the best receivers in the league.

$5m a year really isn't the steep price Brady6 is making it out to be, either. Miles Austin is making over $9m, Santonio Holmes $8.4m, Sidney Rice $8.2m, Mike Williams nearly $8m, Brian Hartline $6.15m. Redskins fans couldn't have been happy last year about Pierre Garcon's $8.5m, but they're probably pretty content with it now.

Among veterans, Amendola's salary is comparable to Santana Moss, Devin Hester, Eddie Royal, Josh Morgan, and Nate Burleson.

5 million a season for a healthy Amendola is a good price, and what's really ridiculous is that he keeps harping on Amendola being 28 when the truth is that he just turned 28 this month and Edelman is only 6 months younger at 27.So in October they were both 27 but somehow now Amendola is almost over the hill and Edelman a young up and coming star. Seriously, GTFOOH.

 

[RIpats88]

The funny thing is after the steelers game fans were posting threads about how edelman didn'thhave as big a role anymore and if thompkins was being phased out...

With so many targets for Brady on this offense, outside of gronkyou could very well see a different receiver step up each week

Gronk, vereen, amendola, edelman, dobson., thompkins...

 

[neuronet]

How many times, under Brady/Belichick, have we seen a receiver come in and have a mediocre year, only to have a break-out year afterwords? Has this ever happened? I'm not being facetious, my memory may just be bad..

My memory is that indications are usually pretty clear, within a year, of how well someone fits into the system. Remember with Ochocinco every week someone would start a thread: 'This is it, this will be his game!'

 

[Huckleberry1]

How many times, under Brady/Belichick, have we seen a receiver come in and have a mediocre year, only to have a break-out year afterwords? Has this ever happened? I'm not being facetious, my memory may just be bad..

My memory is that indications are usually pretty clear, within a year, of how well someone fits into the system. Remember with Ochocinco every week someone would start a thread: 'This is it, this will be his game!'

Except that Amendola was right on the same page right out of the gate and looked outstanding before getting injured against Buffalo, so i have no worries about how well he will play with Brady once he is healthy.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The funny thing is after the steelers game fans were posting threads about how edelman didn'thhave as big a role anymore and if thompkins was being phased out...

With so many targets for Brady on this offense, outside of gronkyou could very well see a different receiver step up each week

Gronk, vereen, amendola, edelman, dobson., thompkins...

This the negative impact fantasy football is having on fans discussing the game. It's great that fantasy football has brought so many casual fans into the game, however the understanding that long time fans had that football is a team game with performances interdependent on each other has been lost and every player is now judged solely by their stats and more often on just what they did recently than how well they have played on the whole. Now fans act as if the players on their team are as disposable as those on their fantasy teams and a guy who has dominated for a good number of years should be thrown in the trash if they are off for a few weeks. It actually makez it difficult to discuss because the new fans treaty it like baseball, when the two sports couldn't be any more different.

 

[primetime]

How many times, under Brady/Belichick, have we seen a receiver come in and have a mediocre year, only to have a break-out year afterwords? Has this ever happened? I'm not being facetious, my memory may just be bad..

My memory is that indications are usually pretty clear, within a year, of how well someone fits into the system. Remember with Ochocinco every week someone would start a thread: 'This is it, this will be his game!'

I don't think there's a big enough sample size to make a judgement on this sort of thing. They've only had about 10 to 12 truly contributing wide receivers over the last 12 years who have caught over 50 balls in a year (Brown, Patten, Branch, Givens, Caldwell, Gaffney, Welker, Moss, Stallworth, Lloyd, Edelman). Of those, Givens and Gaffney were both mediocre their first seasons in the system and then broke out later (in Gaffney's case, the 06 playoffs).

It's not inconceivable Amendola finishes with over 50 this year either despite the injury - he'd need to average about 4.8 receptions per game.

Comparing Amendola to Ochocinco is highly disingenuous when you consider the big game Amendola had in week 1 when he was completely healthy. No Amendola, no win in that game.

 

[primetime]

This the negative impact fantasy football is having on fans discussing the game.

To some extent. It's also the absurd numbers being put up by other players in this 'era,' including (especially, even) Patriots players like Welker. Go back to 2003 when the team was much more balanced and you have Deion Branch with 57 receptions to lead the team. The next season it's David Givens with 56. Amendola may equal that mark this year. People were calling Branch or Givens rising star then, not a disappointment.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I

Comparing Amendola to Ochocinco is highly disingenuous when you consider the big game Amendola had in week 1 when he was completely healthy. No Amendola, no win in that game.

I understand why people worry about matching receivers with Brady, and it is a fact that some just never get it, no matter how good they were elsewhere, but that simply isn't the case here and i agree with you that the Buffalo game demonstrates why. This is not a matter of Amendola not understanding the offense it is a matter of injury, plain and simple. He can run but that groin injury has eliminated his ability to make sharp quick cuts, and that was a major part of his skill set. I think he's hurt much worse than they have let on and that they know teams respect him so they can use him either as effective decoy or go to him when they leave him in lesser coverage. I don't believe this is any different than it would have been had Welker been injured his first season, he still would have gone on to great things here and I beieve that will be the case for Amendola. IF Amendola had been on the sidelines because he wasn't on the same page as Brady then i would look at it very differently, because neuronet is right about the dynamic where some receivers just don't understand how to play WR with Brady.

 

[primetime]

To be fair, people were calling Randy Moss a disappointment and calling for his head before he even stepped foot on the field because he sat out training camp. Such is the nature of fandom, especially when you can go online and make kneejerk complaints to a bunch of like-minded fans. That's not a bad thing, but it's the way it is.

 

[Ring 6]

I think its too early to judge Amendola and believe you have an accurate expectation of his future.
Sure you can look at 4.6 catches a game for 51.1 yards with 4 games missed and draw a conclusion.
But when you factor in the injury that took him out of an offense that was still developing, then his first 2 games back were limited by being eased back in to the first, and the concussion in the second, finally returning fully at about the same time that Gronk came back, and Dobson was exterting a new role, in addition to Vereen coming back in, its easy to see that the structure of the offense is still developing. His role, his being on the same page as Brady just can't be where they should be 3 months in, given those factors.
I expect his role to change over the last 8 games of this season, which could mean reduction or increase.

 

[SalemPats]

I don't think it was coincidental that the Patriots offense took flight after DRC left that game. At that point, the Broncos were missing both starting CBs and (at least) one starting safety, and it became a much easier defense to exploit. I don't think Denver was stopping Brady even before that (turnovers were doing that) but DRC's idiocy all but guaranteed a "Katy, bar the door" type of situation for the Broncos which allowed the Patriots to move the ball almost at will in the second half.

Prior to that, the Patriots WRs were looking very pedestrian.


As for Amendola, I look at him as a lesser version of WWW, with a bit more comfort on the outside, but a lot less ability to take the punishment on the inside.

I agree with this 100%. Amendola can stretch the field better than Wes and is much better on the outside, but the inside Wes is more dynamic.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Edelman when healthy is better in this O

 

[primetime]

Edelman when healthy is better in this O

This may surprise you, but there is nothing in the NFL rulebook that states that a team is limited to a single white wide receiver on the field on any given play.

 

[Brady6]

You wanted to cut him after about four weeks of the season.

No I never said I wanted to cut him, if you go back to the thread you’re referring to you will find that what I said is I would not be at all surprised to see Amendola follow a similar path as Brandon Lloyd the 2012 wide receiver who was brought in after spending time with McDaniels and entered New England with similar hype behind him that teaming him with a real QB like Brady would give us the best deep threat receiver we’ve had since Moss – that did not happen and it appears Amendola becoming the best slot receiver since a young Welker is not going to happen either therefore making us 0-2.

You my friend can hold out hope for as long as you would like, me I am going conclude that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[Brady6]

My mistake talking football with you, i should have realized a while ago that you are a pure fantasy football guy and as such a stat lover. I don't care one bit about fantasy football, I think it completely misrepresents the reality on the field, and as Belichick said believe that "Stats are for losers."

I am not sure why this discussion has to create animosity between us honestly Ivan, I have no problem with you as a poster in fact I enjoy much of what you post in here, I see the Amendola situation differently than you do which is fine don’t make this more than it needs to be.

As far as pure fantasy guy that’s not the case at all, but what else is Amendola bringing to the table here? We use Edelman and Slater as our top 2 blocking wide receivers so clearly that’s not a place he is delivering, Amendola doesn’t play special teams so that’s another miss, and he doesn’t run for yards after the catch very well currently ranking 141st in the NFL – compared to Edelman who is 26th and Welker who is 23rd. Where is his value he isn’t commanding double and triple teams opening up other receivers, I don’t see it Ivan I am sorry I wish I did because I don’t like feeling like I am upsetting everyone by not liking a player but I just don’t see what you’re seeing in this guy I think he is playing exactly like the guy who played for the Rams the previous 4 season and that is because that is who he is.

 

[Brady6]

How many times, under Brady/Belichick, have we seen a receiver come in and have a mediocre year, only to have a break-out year afterwords? Has this ever happened? I'm not being facetious, my memory may just be bad..

My memory is that indications are usually pretty clear, within a year, of how well someone fits into the system. Remember with Ochocinco every week someone would start a thread: 'This is it, this will be his game!'

I don’t think it has happen before they usually do well or they don’t last:

Brandon Lloyd
Chad Johnson
Joey Galloway
Donta Stallworth

They all couldn’t catch on to the level of their contracts so they were instructed to catch a flight. Every single player on that list had a more prolific career than Danny Amendola so I am not sure why anyone thinks Danny would be treated differently this offseason.

Quote me if you’d like when I say this – the Patriots will ask Danny Amendola to take a pay cut this offseason and if he refuses they will cut him just like they did these other 4 players, they will not have a guy on this team making $5 million a season playing 2/3 of the games and having 2-3 good games and the rest subpar, even though it doesn’t benefit the cap it will still happen, odds are Danny takes the pay cut however.