Panthers scare me

[BradyFTW!]

I got mad respect for Brady. I personally have him as the GOAT ahead of Montana.

But I think one week of football before the bye is making you forget everything NE has shown this year.

Should be a good game.

I think that one week of football needs to be put in context. This was the first game where Gronk and Amendola were both on the field at anything resembling full health. It was also the first game where Ridley was really allowed to run free. There were a couple of reasons why the offense was below average for a solid half of a season, and it was mostly because TE was a dumpster fire and our top receivers were an overmatched journeyman and two rookies who were in way over their heads and dropping the ball as often as not even when they did run the correct route.

What the Pittsburgh game showed us was that Gronk means we have a threat at TE finally, Amendola's groin is healthy enough for him to get open in a reasonable amount of time, Dobson has picked up enough of the playbook that he can be a legit #3/4 option, and Belichick seems to finally be willing to give Ridley the lion's share of the carries. And I expect Vereen coming back to provide a boost on par with anything that I mentioned above. It's to the point where the top two receiving options for a several-week stretch earlier--Thompkins and Edelman--are now seeing dramatically reduced snap counts. The Pats were featuring, and winning, with guys who have trouble getting 20 snaps as the #3-4 option now.

Obviously, the pure amount of ass that the offense kicked against Pittsburgh was a bit of an aberration. They've always matched up terribly against the Pats, and Brady just owns that defense. Polamalu, in particular, just gets dominated by Brady. I'd be surprised if the Patriots dominate a defense that thoroughly again for the rest of the season.

But it wasn't a mirage, either. There were real, easily explainable reasons for that improvement, and with a bye week to get Brady, Gronk, Vereen, and Amendola all healthier, as well as to get Cannon locked in at RT, I expect a lot of that improvement to be sustained going forward.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Um, No....the Pittsburgh D has not been playing every bit as well as Carolina. Pitt has been heavily criticized this year for there old and slow looking D....

Statements like that suggest you haven't enough ball outside NE....

Since their bye, the Steelers have played 5 games, in which they've held their opponents to 6, 10, 16, 21, and 55 points. Their defense is still very good, and outside of the Patriots game they've shown it. It's not as good as the Panthers', but it's solidly above average. Very good against the pass and a bit weak against the run.

The fact that you don't recognize that suggests that you haven't been watching enough ball outside Carolina.

 

[DoubleTrouble]

The pats have shown this year that they never give up no matter what and find ways with win with guys who are brand new to the system. Every impact playing on D has been out for extended periods of time and they find ways to win. That is where 95% of teams fold.

This didn't come from 1 week of football. They are 7-2 for a reason

Pretty sure no one suggesting NE would be dropping 55 on the #2 D in the NFL.....if the Pitt game never was played.

1-2 on the road.

How has NE faired in the road against real defenses this year?

This will be the best D NE has faced.

The assumption NE has an easy win ahead is living on the past. Will be a tough game for them

 

[DoubleTrouble]

Opposing fans come here sharing that sentiment every week, and usually they're never heard from again after their team loses in convincing fashion.

Let's stick to talking actual football rather than meaningless phrases like who's 'scarier'. It's a pointless discussion that people rely on only when they don't have enough knowledge to discuss things that actually matter.

well, it is factual....we are the best D NE will have faced this year

It is factual your offense has struggled more this year than in years past for a variety of reasons

It is factual you have a losing record on the road

All, I am saying is this suggestion you are going to travel on the road and steamroll the #2 D.....is a bit much

 

[DoubleTrouble]

Since their bye, the Steelers have played 5 games, in which they've held their opponents to 6, 10, 16, 21, and 55 points. Their defense is still very good, and outside of the Patriots game they've shown it. It's not as good as the Panthers', but it's solidly above average. Very good against the pass and a bit weak against the run.

The fact that you don't recognize that suggests that you haven't been watching enough ball outside Carolina.

Since there bye....they played some of the worst scoring teams in the NFL. So those teams basically did what they always do. Not put up points. Every single one of those teams outside NE is in the bottom half of the league in scoring with a couple at the very bottom.

I watch plenty of football outside of Carolina.....that Steeler D isn't good. They aren't garbage.....but they aren't in the conversation with what Carolina is doing. Which is why they have been criticized all year.

@ Carolina on MNF....should be the toughest game NE has played to date. Not sure why you take that as a slam. It isn't.

I am not penciling anything in a Panther win. Just a tough game we CAN win

 

[JMC00]

Teams carolina has beaten and their offensive rankings

NYG- #23 in yards & #30 in points
Minn- #28 in yards & #13 in points
STL- #26 in yards & #18 in points
TB- #31 in yards & #31 in points
ATL- #14 in yards & #23 in points (But no Julio Jones and Roddy White for the game)
SF- #22 in yards & #10 in points (Vernon Davis was out for half the game)

Teams are a combined 18-37. (SF has a 3rd of the wins)

Color me unimpressed.

 

[manxman2601]

Teams carolina has beaten and their offensive rankings

NYG- #23 in yards & #30 in points
Minn- #28 in yards & #13 in points
STL- #26 in yards & #18 in points
TB- #31 in yards & #31 in points
ATL- #14 in yards & #23 in points (But no Julio Jones and Roddy White for the game)
SF- #22 in yards & #10 in points (Vernon Davis was out for half the game)

Teams are a combined 18-37. (SF has a 3rd of the wins)

Color me unimpressed.

That certainly puts their much vaunted defense in a whole new light. That's not very scary at all.

 

[jah]

I think the Panthers will win, but it's hard to do anything but laugh at a Carolina fan who pulls out the schedule card for why the Patriots aren't good.

 

[Soadisthebest]

Awful passing offense, average run offense, awful secondary and a good front 7. I probably won't watch the game. Sounds very frightening.

 

[JMC00]

That certainly puts their much vaunted defense in a whole new light. That's not very scary at all.

And let's not forget Indy went into SF and put a beat down on SF, winning by 20 points.

Indy is the prime example of parity in the NFL and how really you just don't know how a game could go.

Beats SF, SEA and DEN (Although SEA & DEN were in Indy) yet loses to MIA at home, SD by 10 and gets run out of their own building by STL. And had to come back from 18 down at halftime against HOU.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Since there bye....they played some of the worst scoring teams in the NFL. So those teams basically did what they always do. Not put up points. Every single one of those teams outside NE is in the bottom half of the league in scoring with a couple at the very bottom.

I watch plenty of football outside of Carolina.....that Steeler D isn't good. They aren't garbage.....but they aren't in the conversation with what Carolina is doing. Which is why they have been criticized all year.

@ Carolina on MNF....should be the toughest game NE has played to date. Not sure why you take that as a slam. It isn't.

I am not penciling anything in a Panther win. Just a tough game we CAN win

The bolded applies to Carolina just as much as it applies to Pittsburgh. If you're going to diminish what the Steelers have done since their bye based on strength of schedule, then you absolutely have to do the same with the Panthers.

By your logic, the Panthers' success over the past five weeks should basically be dismissed because every offense that they've faced has been somewhere between mediocre and terrible. Personally, I think that reasoning is kind of BS; these are all professional teams, and it's certainly easier to play well against them, but when you're performing on an elite level that warrants noticing regardless of the opponent.

Since the Pats already played New Orleans (with Graham at 100%) and Cincinnati (with Atkins at 100%), it's debatable that this will be their toughest game to date. If nothing else, those games were clearly bigger challenges just based on the fact that Gronk and Amendola weren't available. I feel better about this game than I did about the Saints game going into it, I'll tell you that much.

 

[BradyFTW!]

well, it is factual....we are the best D NE will have faced this year

It is factual your offense has struggled more this year than in years past for a variety of reasons

It is factual you have a losing record on the road

All, I am saying is this suggestion you are going to travel on the road and steamroll the #2 D.....is a bit much

1. The Pats have already played 4 games against the top 7 defenses in the NFL by DVOA. Carolina's defense won't be anything new for them.

By the way, the Panthers just got held to 10 points by the #14 defense in the NFL. Meanwhile, the Pats are ranked #10 and are getting their best player (Talib) back. You're only dealing with half of the equation, the other half being that the Panthers should have trouble scoring.

2. It's not nearly as complicated as you seem to think. It's been entirely because of injuries. Gronk, Amendola, and Vereen have missed almost the entire season prior to last week. They're all back now.

3. You're chasing after windmills here. Most people aren't claiming that; I'm certainly not. From my first post on this thread, that's been pretty clear.

 

[manxman2601]

How do people think the Panthers' front 7 compare to the Jets'? Does a better pass rush and Luke Kuechly give the Panthers an edge?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Panthers defense is #3 after week 9 according to Football Outsiders while the Jets are #5. The Steelers sit at #28 (which does include the drubbing by the Patriots).

Fact is, the Steelers were way overrated based on the NFLs yardage metrics.

Now, the question is can the Panthers create enough of a pass rush to hold down a potentially explosive passing attack. Maybe, maybe not. There are good reasons to argue either way. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

They have played a crap schedule though, so we will be a huge test for them.

You're right in that they've only played three teams with +.500 records and are 1--2 against them, including an L to the 5--4 Cardinals before beating San Francisco in their own house this week.

But, as part of their five game W streak before the win in SF, they did beat four mediocre/poor teams by a combined score of 130--48, with an average per game margin of over 20 points while never scoring fewer than 30 in any of those games. That says to me that, over the last couple of months, they learned to put away bad or mediocre teams and then stepped up against a good team in a tough venue.

"Scared?" Probably too strong a word.

But...Monday night? at Home? biggest TV game they've played since, well, a certain Super Bowl? I'd definitely say I'm "concerned."

 

[CelticPatriot]

I played this game on Madden and won 35-10.

Pats had 250 yards passing, 100 rushing. Vereen scored 2 TD's, Amendola, Ridley and Thompkins also scored TD's. Dennard had a contender for play of the year with a pick, Cole had a fumble recovery on a kick off that went to the 1 yard line and Ridley forced and recovered a fumble after a Brady pick. So this will all definetely happen on Monday

 

[Seacoast Fan]

So everyone scares you, why make a thread?

Because he is a troll.

GrogansArmy...what relation are you to ManningsArmy...the troll who used to haunt the colts board years ago?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Panthers defense is #3 after week 9 according to Football Outsiders while the Jets are #5. The Steelers sit at #28 (which does include the drubbing by the Patriots).

Fact is, the Steelers were way overrated based on the NFLs yardage metrics.

Now, the question is can the Panthers create enough of a pass rush to hold down a potentially explosive passing attack. Maybe, maybe not. There are good reasons to argue either way. I'm looking forward to it.

That DVOA number for the Steelers got murdered by the Pats game. It got doubly murdered because the Pats' offense isn't considered to be very good based on their body of work this season. I like that FO weights performance based on strength of opponent, but in this case it leads to invalid assumptions (that the offense that the Steelers faced was the same that the Patriots put on the field for the first half of the season).

The 55 point game was an enormous outlier that's going to skew Pittsburgh's DVOA for the entire year, but for now it's being overrepresented. The Steelers' D is much better than that ranking, and it will show that by the end of the year.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Their message board is pretty hilarious. They are all unaware that they are fans of the Carolina Panthers...they think they are rooting for the 85 Bears of 00 Ravens.

They know nothing of the Patriots, which is fine, but they have a hilarious tendency to insinuate that Patriots fans only know what ESPN tells them, while using criticisms of the Patriots that are bloviated constantly on...ESPN.

For all their expert talk about how the Patriots o-line is terrible, their putrid secondary doesn't matter because Brady will never release the ball to begin with, Talib can't cover Smith etc etc etc, there seems to be no mention of the matchup of head coaches. Why would that be?

Could it be because they know that while Belichick is expertly taking rooks and bishops, Riverboat Ron will be unaware that the game being played isn't tic-tac-toe?

The Pats are going to win a physical game against a good team on Monday, by two touchdowns.

 

[supafly]

I played this game on Madden and won 35-10.

Pats had 250 yards passing, 100 rushing. Vereen scored 2 TD's, Amendola, Ridley and Thompkins also scored TD's. Dennard had a contender for play of the year with a pick, Cole had a fumble recovery on a kick off that went to the 1 yard line and Ridley forced and recovered a fumble after a Brady pick. So this will all definetely happen on Monday

You won vs the Panthers on Madden?

Shoot...I won't even think twice about the game now. This alleviates all of our concerns