Should Jamie Collins Be Utilized More As A Pass Rusher?

[stelfans]

He's perfect for that OLB spot in a 3-4 front where he's also asked to cover a lot.
I too would like to see him out there more but with the way the defense is playing we cant really argue BB options can we?

 

[reflexblue]

Belichick isn't going to throw him to the wolves unless he's absolutely ready to take on all responsibilities.

I think it'll likely take an entire first season of just getting his feet wet.

Of course the injury to Mayo may throw him into the fire a little quicker than Belichick anticipated.

I'm talking about putting him in obvious passing situations where his only responsibility is to rush the passer

 

[condon84]

He can't beat Buchanon for that role.

I didn't think it was a great pick to begin with.

 

[Dingleberry]

What does that have to do with the question being asked?

Mayo is rarely used as a pass rusher.

I agree with OP. Its a shame Collins isn't being used as a pass rusher.

More defensive snaps = Increased likelihood of being called upon to rush the passer. A correlation I did not think needed an equation drawn up.

Hightower more likely to directly replace Mayo, but Collins about to see some snaps.

 

[VrabelJr]

We're comparing a play he made going full speed on a kickoff return to rushing the passer with a 310 pound guy three feet from you?

 

[ausbacker]

He doesn't possess the strength yet to handle NFL O-Linemen. He'd only be a one-dimensional speed-rusher. He's best utilized in the role he's in now for now - as the coverage 'backer.

By the way, his listed weight might be generous at best. The guy looks barely 240.

Sounds like Aldon Smith, Clay Matthews and Bruce Irvin.

 

[Ozymandias]

Sounds like Aldon Smith, Clay Matthews and Bruce Irvin.

It sounds like a lot of people. Unlike Collins, however, those guys actually do have the strength to take on NFL O-Linemen and have proven to be able to do so successfully. Collins doesn't yet, hence why he's not being used in that role.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Sounds like Aldon Smith, Clay Matthews and Bruce Irvin.

I'd gladly take any one of those guys on the Pats (Smith in his pre-gun running days).

 

[Brady6]

We're comparing a play he made going full speed on a kickoff return to rushing the passer with a 310 pound guy three feet from you?

I think it's more of projecting how his athletic ability could translate in a different capacity.

Right now it appears they're working a very raw Collins into the defense slowly and as the season progresses you'll see him involved more. The other issue is Collins would really only be a fit off the left side in the role that Ninkovich plays, Belichick likes using the 6'5+ 260+ Lb. Jones, Buchanan or even Bequette at right defensive end.

 

[captain stone]

Might as well use him as a blitzer; he can't cover worth squat.

 

[Harrisoned!]

He was used during preseason as a pass rusher and stunk. Maybe in time, but right now the guy should not be relied upon to rush the passer. Simply need more from Ninko opposite Jones right now. One sack in six games is not going to cut it at his new salary. This weekend is a matchup he should win - Austin Howard is not going to be reminding anyone of Anthony Munoz.

 

[mgteich]

If I understand, you would LIKE Collins to take reps from Buchanan. Your evidence is one special teams play and size combine comparisons with another player. Your preference is that we use Collins as a pass-rushing DE in the sub-package instead of as backup linebacker. You seem to believe that Collins is somehow ready for both roles.

IMHO, this is a very simple situation. Buchanan has beaten out Collins for the pass-rushing role in the camps, in the pre-season, in practice and in the season. There is no reason to replace Buchanan or diminish his reps.

Given where he was drafted, Collins has been a disappointment for many. The reality is that players often take a bit of time to develop, Collins is contributing, just not in as great a role as Buchanan. We expect more as time goes on.
=====

As we move to Game 7, we will see if Collins is the favored starter over Fletcher. I presume so. He certainly should get a significant number of reps.

For now, Collins is being asked to learn the role of linebacker. He has been our #1 backup; so far so good.

Buchanan is a pass-rusher in the sub-package, replacing Chandler Jones (actually moving Jones inside). This defensive line rotation has worked well. I don't think that it will change, especially now that Mayo is out and Collins is needed even more a a linebacker.

On the final kickoff of the game last night (whilst we were all still celebrating), Jamie Collins made an outstanding tackle and forced fumble at about the 5 yard line. On a kickoff. The play required bend, quick change of direction and plus reach to be successful. All are the required skills of a pass rusher.

It made me think of a not unreasonable comparison, at least in my mind, to someone who already has six sacks this season and 10.5 last. That man is Robert Quinn of the St. Louis Rams. Consider:


Robert Quinn:

6'4", 265 lbs, 34" arms
4.7 40, 1.69 10 yard split
22 Reps
34" Vert, 116" broad
7.13 3Cone


Jamie Collins:

6'3", 250lbs, 33 3/4" Arms
4.64 40, 1.53 10 yard split
19 reps
41.5" Vert, 139" Broad
7.10 3Cone


Firstly, I'm happy to point out that there is more to pass rushing than testing numbers in shorts but even so there's some interesting comparisons there.

• Clearly Quinn is the bigger and stronger
• But they have similar quickness
• But that 10 yard split for Collins is incredible. for comparisons sake, Von Miller had a 1.62
• And of course, Collins is vastly more explosive than Quinn with those jump numbers

Perhaps Buchanan showed better in practice as a pass rusher which is why he gets the nod in games. Perhaps BB really wants Collins to be that pass defending SLB in the long run and feels that's the best way he can contribute. Perhaps Collins' pass rushing moves are limited. Or perhaps BB will unleash Collins in his full glory next season wants he's had some development time.

Whatever the reason, I think it's a shame because that one special team play had me dreaming of what might be...and that might be a 10-15 sack per year specialist in my view.

 

[patsfan-1982]

looks like we will be seeing a lot more of him with Mayo on IR lets hope he can tackle and cover not just rush the QB

 

[Mike the Brit]

I think as he sees increased reps overall, his responsibilities will increase.

I saw his recovered fumble and couldn't figure out for the life of me "when" that occurred. I forgot about the last kickoff...glad I saw this, it was driving me nuts.

My daughter sometimes says to me "Daddy, don't you take this Patriots stuff a bit too seriously sometimes?" To which I can reply "Yes, I suppose you're right, darling, but you should see some of the real fans!"

:youtheman:

 

[PatriotReign]

Steve Beauharnis should also be in the running for more reps now that Mayo's out.

 

[manxman2601]

Had 3 hurries yesterday in limited reps, the same as Chandler Jones. For perspective, in terms of 4-3 OLB, Lavonte David and Akeem Ayers lead the league with 10 hurries each on the season but that's from 42 and 103 pass rush attempts respectively. Collins has his 3 hurries from only nine attempts.

I still think he has a contribution to make and a lot of upside.

 

[Big-T]

Had 3 hurries yesterday in limited reps, the same as Chandler Jones. For perspective, in terms of 4-3 OLB, Lavonte David and Akeem Ayers lead the league with 10 hurries each on the season but that's from 42 and 103 pass rush attempts respectively. Collins has his 3 hurries from only nine attempts.

I still think he has a contribution to make and a lot of upside.

Do the Patriots have anyone on the roster who could hold up at NT? Perhaps Kelly?

If so a 3-4 with Chandler Jones & Collins on the outside on passing downs (slide Ninkovich to ILB instead of Spikes) could potentially produce a lot of pressure with Chris Jones & when/if he returns Armstead at DE.

 

[Deus Irae]

Collins should be utilized more on the bench.

 

[manxman2601]

Collins should be utilized more on the bench.

That would be difficult.

 

[Deus Irae]

That would be difficult.

Let him pass out water.