Patriots Training Camp 2013 (Day Four, Monday July 29)

[fnordcircle]

That's bad because he isn't a starting level TE.

Nobody is a 'starting level' player in the NFL until they are. He's also the one that reminds me the most of Ahern, sans the Dexter routine. Build wise, anyways, he's more H-Back than TE.

I don't know why people need to decide that a guy who hasn't been a starter elsewhere or for us can't become a starting quality player.

Troy Brown, Vrabel, Patten, Connolly, McDonald all say 'hi'.

 

[belichick010405]

just got home from the practice for season ticket holders...thank to Mr. Tunescribe...a finer gentleman does not exist.

Saw a lot...really, really got good looks at a lot of different players. Let's just say, for you Tebowers, that the jury is still out but it doesn't look good. His reads are molasses like and he has a real problem on throws to his right. It's accuracy. He does not have consistent accuracy and in this offense a QB needs THAT more than anything else. He's got a lot of work ,and I mean a real lot of work, to do for him to stick. Tunes is much harsher in his assessment as I'm sure you'll read.

Hold your horses on any Canton inductions also as far as our new wide receivers are concerned. Amendola is easily the standout. Dobson LOOKS like a really tremendous athlete. He moves like a bona fide #1 does. I just think he's very raw right now.Boyce? yeah ..he flashed and then he flubbed easy throws...I mean, OK, he's got youth and some skill...just lkike hundreds of other hopefuls..meh...Hawkins and Aiken...up/down, catch/drops. Jenkins just doesn't excite me at all.

Tight ends are a different story. I don't think we have to worry about production from THIS position. Fells is a good player. Ballard looks like a robbery and there's NOTHING wrong with the way he's moving.

The main part of tonight's practice that jumped out all night?...Tom freakin' Brady. You all know I'm an old dog with a lot of years on the bench but man, Tom Brady is something else. When you see him take reps in this offense and then Mallett with the same offensive grouping it just jumps out at you how good T.B. really is....and let me just say, for anyone who's just waiting to jump on this board and start blabbing about his arm strength and what he can and cannot throw...do yourself a favor and go up to these practices and LOOK at how TB is throwing the ball. He is so accurate throwing into spots it almost defies description. We ARE blessed to have been witnesses and fans of a player like this, believe me. If they can keep him upright, and the O line does look impressive,I firmly believe this team will not only make the playoffs but be a force to be reckoned with.

I write up a few D takes in a few minutes...I'm starving....

Thank you Joker......I am sure that it must have been quite a day over there today with the HofF inductions....What can you tell us about the running backs when you get back?

 

[manxman2601]

just got home from the practice for season ticket holders...thank to Mr. Tunescribe...a finer gentleman does not exist.

Saw a lot...really, really got good looks at a lot of different players. Let's just say, for you Tebowers, that the jury is still out but it doesn't look good. His reads are molasses like and he has a real problem on throws to his right. It's accuracy. He does not have consistent accuracy and in this offense a QB needs THAT more than anything else. He's got a lot of work ,and I mean a real lot of work, to do for him to stick. Tunes is much harsher in his assessment as I'm sure you'll read.

Hold your horses on any Canton inductions also as far as our new wide receivers are concerned. Amendola is easily the standout. Dobson LOOKS like a really tremendous athlete. He moves like a bona fide #1 does. I just think he's very raw right now.Boyce? yeah ..he flashed and then he flubbed easy throws...I mean, OK, he's got youth and some skill...just lkike hundreds of other hopefuls..meh...Hawkins and Aiken...up/down, catch/drops. Jenkins just doesn't excite me at all.

Tight ends are a different story. I don't think we have to worry about production from THIS position. Fells is a good player. Ballard looks like a robbery and there's NOTHING wrong with the way he's moving.

The main part of tonight's practice that jumped out all night?...Tom freakin' Brady. You all know I'm an old dog with a lot of years on the bench but man, Tom Brady is something else. When you see him take reps in this offense and then Mallett with the same offensive grouping it just jumps out at you how good T.B. really is....and let me just say, for anyone who's just waiting to jump on this board and start blabbing about his arm strength and what he can and cannot throw...do yourself a favor and go up to these practices and LOOK at how TB is throwing the ball. He is so accurate throwing into spots it almost defies description. We ARE blessed to have been witnesses and fans of a player like this, believe me. If they can keep him upright, and the O line does look impressive,I firmly believe this team will not only make the playoffs but be a force to be reckoned with.

I write up a few D takes in a few minutes...I'm starving....

Great write up. And as a Tebower, I think this is right and not much of a worry. Look I don't think he'll ever be good enough to be an NFL starter in this type of offense but I do think he has a place on the roster as a versatile offensive chess piece.

Are they running the ball much or are they going to town on passing reps?

 

[belichick010405]

Nobody is a 'starting level' player in the NFL until they are. He's also the one that reminds me the most of Ahern, sans the Dexter routine. Build wise, anyways, he's more H-Back than TE.

I don't know why people need to decide that a guy who hasn't been a starter elsewhere or for us can't become a starting quality player.

Troy Brown, Vrabel, Patten, Connolly, McDonald all say 'hi'.

I'll never forget the 4 interception game that Brady had against the Broncos the year the Patriots won their 1st Super Bowl.

 

[manxman2601]

.What can you tell us about the running backs when you get back?

Are they running the ball much or are they going to town on passing reps?

OMG! Like minds. That's bad man.

 

[ausbacker]

just got home from the practice for season ticket holders...thank to Mr. Tunescribe...a finer gentleman does not exist.

Saw a lot...really, really got good looks at a lot of different players. Let's just say, for you Tebowers, that the jury is still out but it doesn't look good. His reads are molasses like and he has a real problem on throws to his right. It's accuracy. He does not have consistent accuracy and in this offense a QB needs THAT more than anything else. He's got a lot of work ,and I mean a real lot of work, to do for him to stick. Tunes is much harsher in his assessment as I'm sure you'll read.

Hold your horses on any Canton inductions also as far as our new wide receivers are concerned. Amendola is easily the standout. Dobson LOOKS like a really tremendous athlete. He moves like a bona fide #1 does. I just think he's very raw right now.Boyce? yeah ..he flashed and then he flubbed easy throws...I mean, OK, he's got youth and some skill...just lkike hundreds of other hopefuls..meh...Hawkins and Aiken...up/down, catch/drops. Jenkins just doesn't excite me at all.

Tight ends are a different story. I don't think we have to worry about production from THIS position. Fells is a good player. Ballard looks like a robbery and there's NOTHING wrong with the way he's moving.

The main part of tonight's practice that jumped out all night?...Tom freakin' Brady. You all know I'm an old dog with a lot of years on the bench but man, Tom Brady is something else. When you see him take reps in this offense and then Mallett with the same offensive grouping it just jumps out at you how good T.B. really is....and let me just say, for anyone who's just waiting to jump on this board and start blabbing about his arm strength and what he can and cannot throw...do yourself a favor and go up to these practices and LOOK at how TB is throwing the ball. He is so accurate throwing into spots it almost defies description. We ARE blessed to have been witnesses and fans of a player like this, believe me. If they can keep him upright, and the O line does look impressive,I firmly believe this team will not only make the playoffs but be a force to be reckoned with.

I write up a few D takes in a few minutes...I'm starving....

Please.. keep us waiting you old, senile fool.

Looking forward to your defensive write up already Joker. Pumped and jacked in anticipation.

 

[belichick010405]

Please.. keep us waiting you old, senile fool.

Looking forward to your defensive write up already Joker. Pumped and jacked in anticipation.

Same here.....

 

[manxman2601]

Same here.....

Now you're just stalking him.

 

[belichick010405]

Now you're just stalking him.

Nah - It is not my fault that a newspaper like the Post made this kind of observation and I thought that it might be a bit appropriate considering what Joker said earlier. In all seriousness - I wish one Boston-based reporter basically just started asking the questions to Tebow on why he has issues throwing the ball.

 

[50-yard-line]

I was there tonight...some observations:

1. I didn't get to see much of the big guys mauling each other at they were off in the far corner from me. I can tell you, though, Tommy Kelly is HUGE. So is Marcus Cannon.

2. Defensive backs: Talib is smooth as silk. Arrington beat the snot out of everyone at the line in 1-on-1's, as did Dowling. Dennard looks quick to the ball - really quick to the ball. Dowling is up and down. I'm not surprised by the contradictory reports on him - it depends which play you watch. There's a ton of talent there, at times he looks like Talib, but he needs more consistency to crack the starting line up, I think.

3. TE's: the guy who looked very strong to me tonight was Fells. He ran some beautiful routes 20-yards down and Brady hit him in stride (and yeah, what Joker said on Brady...we really don't know how lucky we are). I didn't see much of Sudfield, Ford dropped a couple of balls, Hoo-man and Ballard both looked just fine.

4. RBs: you can tell when Ridley's running, even from a distance before you see his number. He is so smooth and changes direction and speed beautifully as he goes through the line. Good practice for him. I didn't see much of Vereen, but after watching tonight, I really hope Blount's got his head on straight and makes the team. I didn't realize how big he was. Cornerbacks are going to get Reche eyes if he's coming around the end at them. Yikes.

5. WRs: Aaron Dobson is for real. No, really. Play after play, he was just gliding past people, or through the seams. Very, very impressive.

Amendola's got more moves than ex-lax. You really see it on the punt returns. He'll be a match-up nightmare against many teams. But...

It wouldn't surprise me to see Amendola eased out of the slot eventually to a wide-out and Boyce put in there. There were a couple of plays right in front of us where Boyce did a basic five-and-out, except on the out, he left charred grass and confused DBs in his wake. The extra gear is as advertised, but I agree, he's still a little raw. He plays "big" - he just looks a bit thicker and stronger than the other wideouts.

KT looked good early, but seemed to run out of gas somewhere along the way. I think he blew a route and Brady got picked by Talib (and wasn't happy). Not a bad day and I think he's got a chance here, but Sims looked pretty good.

And strangely, the name you never hear, Hawkins started rough but got much better by the end and had a few catches.

Jenkins was Jenkins, nothing flashy but made a nice sideline grab of Dowling, who had good coverage.

I don't know, but just on pure talent and speed, this WR corps looks like it has a very high upside. Hope Brady has the patience to develop it without murdering a couple of the guys, a la Marino.

 

[belichick010405]

I was there tonight...some observations:

1. I didn't get to see much of the big guys mauling each other at they were off in the far corner from me. I can tell you, though, Tommy Kelly is HUGE. So is Marcus Cannon.

2. Defensive backs: Talib is smooth as silk. Arrington beat the snot out of everyone at the line in 1-on-1's, as did Dowling. Dennard looks quick to the ball - really quick to the ball. Dowling is up and down. I'm not surprised by the contradictory reports on him - it depends which play you watch. There's a ton of talent there, at times he looks like Talib, but he needs more consistency to crack the starting line up, I think.

3. TE's: the guy who looked very strong to me tonight was Fells. He ran some beautiful routes 20-yards down and Brady hit him in stride (and yeah, what Joker said on Brady...we really don't know how lucky we are). I didn't see much of Sudfield, Ford dropped a couple of balls, Hoo-man and Ballard both looked just fine.

4. RBs: you can tell when Ridley's running, even from a distance before you see his number. He is so smooth and changes direction and speed beautifully as he goes through the line. Good practice for him. I didn't see much of Vereen, but after watching tonight, I really hope Blount's got his head on straight and makes the team. I didn't realize how big he was. Cornerbacks are going to get Reche eyes if he's coming around the end at them. Yikes.

5. WRs: Aaron Dobson is for real. No, really. Play after play, he was just gliding past people, or through the seams. Very, very impressive.

Amendola's got more moves than ex-lax. You really see it on the punt returns. He'll be a match-up nightmare against many teams. But...

It wouldn't surprise me to see Amendola eased out of the slot eventually to a wide-out and Boyce put in there. There were a couple of plays right in front of us where Boyce did a basic five-and-out, except on the out, he left charred grass and confused DBs in his wake. The extra gear is as advertised, but I agree, he's still a little raw. He plays "big" - he just looks a bit thicker and stronger than the other wideouts.

KT looked good early, but seemed to run out of gas somewhere along the way. I think he blew a route and Brady got picked by Talib (and wasn't happy). Not a bad day and I think he's got a chance here, but Sims looked pretty good.

And strangely, the name you never hear, Hawkins started rough but got much better by the end and had a few catches.

Jenkins was Jenkins, nothing flashy but made a nice sideline grab of Dowling, who had good coverage.

I don't know, but just on pure talent and speed, this WR corps looks like it has a very high upside. Hope Brady has the patience to develop it without murdering a couple of the guys, a la Marino.

How did the quarterbacks and linebackers look?

 

[AzPatsFan]

I wasn't being too serious. Whilst I think we'll be improved, maybe even significantly, you don't go from being one of the worst defenses to one of the best in such short order. There are still so many question marks but I am hopeful.

The Defense has steadily been getting better. The number of sacks and pressures have increased steadily the last three seasons. Turnovers as sign of team speed has been a near league leader for two seasons now. Every defensive group has excellent young players in it, now. The run D has been tightening up steadily. BB has been strengthening the first reserves now rather than merely looking for enough capable starters.

Name the question marks. They are no longer holes with missing starters; the questions concern capable and playable reserves, now.

 

[50-yard-line]

How did the quarterbacks and linebackers look?

Brady had a couple of underthrows, but other than that, he looked like Brady.

Mallet looks like an NFL quarterback. Stands tall and composed, has a beautiful release and the ball just rockets out of his hand - but he's so damned inconsistent. He hit Harmon between the numbers, for example. I think it's just a matter of game-speed work with him. He could start on some teams and be a large upgrade.

Tebow...what can I say? Watching him deliver the ball...his mechanics are all over the place. Next to Brady and Mallet, it's like the difference between an infielder and an outfielder. A guy like Iglesias gets the ball out so fast, you blink and think you've missed something. And it goes like hell. Outfielders usually have this huge running windup before they unload - yeah, that's Tebow.

He made some really great throws. He's very good with a guy coming back over the middle at 15+, particularly running right to left. His sideline and fades, not so much. And he gets into these places where it looks like he just blanks and starts running around. His decision-making simply isn't there yet; he seems to get caught between "throw it!" and "tuck it and run!" and all the time, the clock keeps ticking.

Hightower looks like a monster out there. On one of the 11-on-11's he got in Brady's face so fast that I held my breath. I didn't see much of the LBs though, as they were mostly down the other end and I was focusing on the DBs and WRs.

 

[belichick010405]

Brady had a couple of underthrows, but other than that, he looked like Brady.

Mallet looks like an NFL quarterback. Stands tall and composed, has a beautiful release and the ball just rockets out of his hand - but he's so damned inconsistent. He hit Harmon between the numbers, for example. I think it's just a matter of game-speed work with him. He could start on some teams and be a large upgrade.

Tebow...what can I say? Watching him deliver the ball...his mechanics are all over the place. Next to Brady and Mallet, it's like the difference between an infielder and an outfielder. A guy like Iglesias gets the ball out so fast, you blink and think you've missed something. And it goes like hell. Outfielders usually have this huge running windup before they unload - yeah, that's Tebow.

He made some really great throws. He's very good with a guy coming back over the middle at 15+, particularly running right to left. His sideline and fades, not so much. And he gets into these places where it looks like he just blanks and starts running around. His decision-making simply isn't there yet; he seems to get caught between "throw it!" and "tuck it and run!" and all the time, the clock keeps ticking.

Hightower looks like a monster out there. On one of the 11-on-11's he got in Brady's face so fast that I held my breath. I didn't see much of the LBs though, as they were mostly down the other end and I was focusing on the DBs and WRs.

Ok - sounds good....Thanks for the report. Real solid observations....This is what training camp is all about. Hope that you had a good time today...

 

[Joker]

yeah, on Tebow...and let me say right up front, there's no sense in making any definitive type of judgement right now, IMO.... BUT...what experience I have over the years watching NFL QB's, there are certain things you can see right away...one is dropping the ball from the kokked position at the shoulder...look at it this way...the three QB's are in rotation...Brady gets the snap, kokks, throws to the right...to the middle...to the left. Mallett has the same mechanics.Brady reads and gets the ball off in these reps to the open receiver..bang!...Mallett struggles a bit here and there but for the most part works his progressions... Tebow consistently holds on to the ball longer, sometimes to a preposterous 10 second count trying to make the proper read. To me that's all scheme. The other two know it, he's learning it. I don't think that's unusual and I think TT is a bit frustrated with himself.

In the live O/D sets with live rush and secdondary pressure, Brady makes a stark jump up from Mallett. I remarked to Tunes.."man, look at Mallett...live bullets and he looks nervous and rushed". Tebow has better composure IMO but here's the thing, a number of times he dropped into the pocket and 1...2...3...4...5...the rush is already on him in 3...and more than a couple of times he broke to his left and ran it upfield. Yes, that's making a play BUT that is not what the coaches are looking for in these drills...they want drop, set , progression read, throw...bang bang bang. I want to see TT in another week. I want to see him in the scrimmages with Tampa Bay if he does make it that far. My feeling is he will but I can tell you, I am in a decided minority if today's audience was any indication. You see, defensive reads are one thing and I understand why they're slow but the mechanical flaws are something else. He drops the ball down to his waist when he cannot get the read,and then when running, winds up his throwing motion while throwing off balance a bit...by that I mean he does not step INTO the throw when he's on the move...the ball tips up in the front and tends to sail when he goes to the left. To the right, well...I focused on him as you probably can tell and saw every throw he made to his right.It's not good. He's not accurate with the WR downfield and he cannot throw to a sideline window to the left shoulder of the receiver. He missed every throw in that direction and some just complete flubs. it's a mechanical problem and I think they intend on working it and working it because he got plenty of reps.

And this is why I think he sticks...they ARE devoting a lot of time to integrating him in all phases of the football team. They had him as the up back in the punting drills for example. I saw nothing else but QB reps though so if he's going to stick it's as the #3 QB.

We need another perspective so I hope Tunes logs on because he's not as hopeful on him as I am.

 

[manxman2601]

The Defense has steadily been getting better. The number of sacks and pressures have increased steadily the last three seasons. Turnovers as sign of team speed has been a near league leader for two seasons now. Every defensive group has excellent young players in it, now. The run D has been tightening up steadily. BB has been strengthening the first reserves now rather than merely looking for enough capable starters.

Name the question marks. They are no longer holes with missing starters; the questions concern capable and playable reserves, now.

1. Who are the sub-rushers both inside and off the edge?

2. There are two functional DT's right now and some UDFA's.

3. Can Adrian Wilson be an every down safety?

You might not have questions, but I still do.

 

[belichick010405]

yeah, on Tebow...and let me say right up front, there's no sense in making any definitive type of judgement right now, IMO.... BUT...what experience I have over the years watching NFL QB's, there are certain things you can see right away...one is dropping the ball from the kokked position at the shoulder...look at it this way...the three QB's are in rotation...Brady gets the snap, kokks, throws to the right...to the middle...to the left. Mallett has the same mechanics.Brady reads and gets the ball off in these reps to the open receiver..bang!...Mallett struggles a bit here and there but for the most part works his progressions... Tebow consistently holds on to the ball longer, sometimes to a preposterous 10 second count trying to make the proper read. To me that's all scheme. The other two know it, he's learning it. I don't think that's unusual and I think TT is a bit frustrated with himself.

In the live O/D sets with live rush and secdondary pressure, Brady makes a stark jump up from Mallett. I remarked to Tunes.."man, look at Mallett...live bullets and he looks nervous and rushed". Tebow has better composure IMO but here's the thing, a number of times he dropped into the pocket and 1...2...3...4...5...the rush is already on him in 3...and more than a couple of times he broke to his left and ran it upfield. Yes, that's making a play BUT that is not what the coaches are looking for in these drills...they want drop, set , progression read, throw...bang bang bang. I want to see TT in another week. I want to see him in the scrimmages with Tampa Bay if he does make it that far. My feeling is he will but I can tell you, I am in a decided minority if today's audience was any indication. You see, defensive reads are one thing and I understand why they're slow but the mechanical flaws are something else. He drops the ball down to his waist when he cannot get the read,and then when running, winds up his throwing motion while throwing off balance a bit...by that I mean he does not step INTO the throw when he's on the move...the ball tips up in the front and tends to sail when he goes to the left. To the right, well...I focused on him as you probably can tell and saw every throw he made to his right.It's not good. He's not accurate with the WR downfield and he cannot throw to a sideline window to the left shoulder of the receiver. He missed every throw in that direction and some just complete flubs. it's a mechanical problem and I think they intend on working it and working it because he got plenty of reps.

And this is why I think he sticks...they ARE devoting a lot of time to integrating him in all phases of the football team. They had him as the up back in the punting drills for example. I saw nothing else but QB reps though so if he's going to stick it's as the #3 QB.

We need another perspective so I hope Tunes logs on because he's not as hopeful on him as I am.

Very nice Joker. This has been his flaw since he was in college and why he stayed his senior year. If he cannot get this corrected, then he is going to have a problem sticking unless he does more than serve as an upback in punting drills.

 

[50-yard-line]

yeah, on Tebow...and let me say right up front, there's no sense in making any definitive type of judgement right now, IMO.... BUT...what experience I have over the years watching NFL QB's, there are certain things you can see right away...one is dropping the ball from the kokked position at the shoulder...look at it this way...the three QB's are in rotation...Brady gets the snap, kokks, throws to the right...to the middle...to the left. Mallett has the same mechanics.Brady reads and gets the ball off in these reps to the open receiver..bang!...Mallett struggles a bit here and there but for the most part works his progressions... Tebow consistently holds on to the ball longer, sometimes to a preposterous 10 second count trying to make the proper read. To me that's all scheme. The other two know it, he's learning it. I don't think that's unusual and I think TT is a bit frustrated with himself.

In the live O/D sets with live rush and secdondary pressure, Brady makes a stark jump up from Mallett. I remarked to Tunes.."man, look at Mallett...live bullets and he looks nervous and rushed". Tebow has better composure IMO but here's the thing, a number of times he dropped into the pocket and 1...2...3...4...5...the rush is already on him in 3...and more than a couple of times he broke to his left and ran it upfield. Yes, that's making a play BUT that is not what the coaches are looking for in these drills...they want drop, set , progression read, throw...bang bang bang. I want to see TT in another week. I want to see him in the scrimmages with Tampa Bay if he does make it that far. My feeling is he will but I can tell you, I am in a decided minority if today's audience was any indication. You see, defensive reads are one thing and I understand why they're slow but the mechanical flaws are something else. He drops the ball down to his waist when he cannot get the read,and then when running, winds up his throwing motion while throwing off balance a bit...by that I mean he does not step INTO the throw when he's on the move...the ball tips up in the front and tends to sail when he goes to the left. To the right, well...I focused on him as you probably can tell and saw every throw he made to his right.It's not good. He's not accurate with the WR downfield and he cannot throw to a sideline window to the left shoulder of the receiver. He missed every throw in that direction and some just complete flubs. it's a mechanical problem and I think they intend on working it and working it because he got plenty of reps.

And this is why I think he sticks...they ARE devoting a lot of time to integrating him in all phases of the football team. They had him as the up back in the punting drills for example. I saw nothing else but QB reps though so if he's going to stick it's as the #3 QB.

We need another perspective so I hope Tunes logs on because he's not as hopeful on him as I am.

I agree with this 100%, and I think Tebow sticking goes something like this: he's going to have to find a way to contribute something more than just being a 3rd string QB. Special teams, some packages at H or something. If he can do that and give them something, the return will be him working behind the GOAT and correcting his flaws. He was the first one out on the field and worked his ass off, from what I could see, and everyone around him was patting him on the back and such - those things matter, but you've got to bring some value.

I'm actually hoping he finds a way to stick around. His followers make me crazy, too, but I'm finding that I can't root against the kid.

 

[Joker]

nice writeup, 50 YardLine...I agree with you 100% on the D observations....and Chandler Jones IS thicker this season. It's exciting looking forward.Adrian Wilson is BIG....Talib was the star to me...man he's like a glove...the second star was our Alabama LB'er...you're gonna see him all over the field this season. Every time I focused on the D I saw a unit AHEAD of the O. I think we may be thin after Wilfork/Kelly inside though.

 

[manxman2601]

nice writeup, 50 YardLine...I agree with you 100% on the D observations....and Chandler Jones IS thicker this season. It's exciting looking forward.Adrian Wilson is BIG....Talib was the star to me...man he's like a glove...the second star was our Alabama LB'er...you're gonna see him all over the field this season. Every time I focused on the D I saw a unit AHEAD of the O. I think we may be thin after Wilfork/Kelly inside though.

Nice write ups. Don't take this the wrong way, but you sound excited like you had a really good time tonight.