Patriots Training Camp 2013 (Day Four, Monday July 29)

[belichick010405]

New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard

Holy cow - that looks like the attendance at a pre-season game in the 4th quarter.

 

[Joker]

Armstead has been treated for an infection..on the ride home the sports talk jocks mentioned sometime this training camp as an expected date of resuming play.Where are you getting 2014 from?

 

[AzPatsFan]

Armstead has been treated for an infection..on the ride home the sports talk jocks mentioned sometime this training camp as an expected date of resuming play.Where are you getting 2014 from?

IOW he misses most of Training Camp for essentially a rookie in the NFL. I think the 2013 season if it exists at all, will be a washout. 2013 will be his redshirt year.

 

[jmt57]

Some TC Day Four Reports:


It Is What It Is » Monday night practice notes: Defense looks solid as Patriots hold in-stadium workout | Christopher Price

•It wasn’t the crispest of practices for the offense — if you had to crown a winner, it was the defense who carried the day, particularly the cornerbacks. Aqib Talib picked off a pair of Tom Brady passes, and returned one of his picks (a pass for Kenbrell Thompkins) to the end zone. In addition, Duron Harmon picked off Ryan Mallett at the end of practice. (And Kyle Arrington was wearing some cool electric green cleats.) A good night for the secondary, which continues to string together good sessions.

•Even though the Patriots have only been in pads twice, the first-year receivers are getting lots of reps, and that’s not just draftees Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce. Thompkins had been having a pretty good camp until Monday night, when he struggled at times. The rookie receiver out of Cincinnati dropped a punt in special teams work and dropped a pass in one of his reps with the starting offense. He also couldn’t come up with a laser from Mallett in 11-on-11s, getting knocked off his spot by Ras-I Dowling, and ran a bad route on a ball that ended up being picked off by Talib.​

New England Patriots practice notes: Ras-I Dowling bounces back, Aqib Talib shines | masslive.com | Nick Underhill

After a rough day Sunday, cornerback Ras-I Dowling bounced back with a better performance Monday. Had one blatant pass interference infraction, but thought he did a much better job in coverage. Aqib Talib owned the day, though. He started out by intercepting a pass intended for Michael Jenkins and finished up by taking one away from Kenbrell Thompkins.

Not the best day for Thompkins. After being the model of consistency early in camp, he had a few dropped passes and caused an interception due to what appeared to be a miscommunication.

Michael Jenkins cost the offense a would-be touchdown when he got turned around in the end zone on a pass from Brady.

Saw running backs Shane Vereen and Leon Washington split out again as receivers during team drills. We've seen a lot of that over the last few days, and it's possible that Vereen, who has good hands, could be used extensively in this kind of role to help fill the void created by Aaron Hernandez's release.

Tight end Michael Hoomanawanui had a great day. Was strong in one-on-one's and capped off his day by making a nice one-handed grab.

Second-string quarterback Ryan Mallett had a rough day and threw and interception to rookie safety Duron Harmon.

Aaron Dobson continues to look like the best receiver on the field. Had another strong day and seemed to be consistently open.​

 

[jmt57]

Observations from 4th practice - espnBoston - Field Yates

3. Edge-setting blocking focus. Defensively, the Patriots rely on setting the edge on each and every down. By that measure, the team got in its work on edge-setting blocking and defending drills, with the wide receivers squaring off against the cornerbacks and the tight ends facing off against defensive ends, outside linebackers and in-the-box safeties. On every play the Patriots will have a player responsible for setting the edge on either side of the defense, making it a priority to work on with every practice.

9. Hightower gets more edge work. We saw Dont'a Hightower take some reps in one-on-one pass rushing drills on Sunday, and then we saw him take that edge work to another level, as he had some rushes and blitzes off the edge in team drills on Monday night. Will be interesting to see if that continues into the season.

10. Boyce's lateral movements. Wasn't a particularly good night for the offense on the whole, but the lateral movements and elusiveness of rookie wideout Josh Boyce caught my eye. It's hard to make a comparison to a recent Patriots receiver that he reminds of, but he appears to have polish to his game. If he can make defenders miss in the open field, the Patriots may turn to him on tear and bubble screens.​

Daily training camp overreaction: Patriots defense to log 50 sacks in 2013 - Going Deep - Boston.com - Erik Frenz

In one-on-one pass-rush drills, the defense went 13-3-2 in the first session and 12-6-0 in the second session.

Every defensive linemen that participated, won at least one of their matchups.

There's some pressure on defensive end Chandler Jones to build off his rookie season, which started strong but slowed down after he suffered an ankle injury. He's looked strong in camp thus far, and went 1-1-0 in his two battles, both with left tackle Nate Solder.

Defensive end Rob Ninkovich dominated all comers with a 3-0-0 performance, including one very impressive defeat of right tackle Sebastian Vollmer, where Ninkovich showed a rare quick twitch to get in the backfield before Vollmer even knew what was coming.

Even defensive tackle Joe Vellano, who suffered a crushing 0-4-0 day on Sunday, went 4-0-0 on Monday night, and logged a victory over center Ryan Wendell, who has dominated those drills to this point.

The only "down" player on the defensive line in those drills was Jermaine Cunningham, who went 2-2-0 and had another play which would have resulted in offsides. Cunningham took a lap for his infraction.

The defensive line's performance carried over to 11-on-11 drills, as well, with linebackers Jerod Mayo and Dont'a Hightower combining for pressure on the same play in what would have been a crunching for Tim Tebow, were it not for that red jersey.​

 

[Brady6]

Patriots Training Camp (Day Four)

The reports that I have seen have been decent on Grissom and Cunningham can always rotate to the inside like last year. I have not seen that much on Francis so far in camp...

Agreed; plus Francis is a college DT as well. Besides Armstead could of had a tooth pulled, people just jump to conclusions which are generally the worst thing they can come up with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[SVN]

Postcard from Patriots Camp: Day 4 | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

WHO'S HOT

Rob Ninkovich. Relentless, efficient, always in the right spot.

Aqib Talib. Had a couple of picks of Tom Brady and could have had more. Just a junkyard dog in coverage.

Michael Hoomanawanui. The tight end had a number of difficult catches to make and came down with most of them including a one-handed snare of a throw over the middle

WHO’S NOT

Mallett. In 11-on-11 he couldn’t hit open receivers. The most egregious was the last of the session when he missed Kenbrell Thompkins working on a 20-yard out and threw it our of bounds.

Chris McDonald. The brother of Nick McDonald has been getting his lunch money taken fairly regularly during 1-on-1s.

Kenbrell Thompkins. After three solid practices, Thompkins seemed to level off some. He and Brady seemed on the wrong page when Brady was picked off by Aqib Talib.

WHAT WE SAW

There was much higher intensity, particularly in the 9-on-7 running game drill than seen on Sunday in the first padded practice.

After a variety of missed downfield throws from Tim Tebow to several targets, Brady stepped in and threw a perfect back-shoulder throw to Kamar Aiken down the left sideline from about 25 yards out.

When Zoltan Mesko was initially in punt protection, the slightly built Steve Gregory was his personal protector. Perhaps Gregory is in there to reason with the prospective punt block group.

Tim Tebow was the other personal protector.

Tommy Kelly is Seymour strong.

In the 1-on-1's we caught, here’s what we had…

Jake Bequette gets the edge on Nate Solder

Jermaine Cunningham swims Chris McDonald.

Marcus Fortson stoned by Ryan Wendell

Tommy Kelly too powerful for Marcus Cannon

Will Svitek holds off Jason Vega

Michael Buchanan beats Elvis Fisher

Vince Wilfork outfights Logan Mankins

Joe Vellano swims Chris McDonald


Wide receiver Lavelle Hawkins had an obvious drop on a throw from Brady. He’s not making the most of his opportunities so far.

You can tell Brady like Kenbrell Thompkins. He seeks him out in 7-on-7 and 11-on-11 and Thompkins fights like an animal when the ball is in the air.

Thompkins, Aaron Dobson, Danny Amendola and Daniel Fells were the first group of targets in for Tom Brady. Shane Vereen was the lone back.

Josh Boyce, Michael Jenkins, Michael Hoomanawanui and Jake Ballard were the next group in with Stevan Ridley running behind Vereen tonight.

Elvis Fisher left practice with an injury and adjourned to the locker room.

Tight end Brandon Ford let Tebow down with a drop on perfectly thrown ball over the middle.

Danny Amendola had a couple of drops but atoned soon after wrestling a 50-50 ball away from Talib.

Josh Boyce took the wrong angle on a comeback pattern and when he was off by about 2 yards to the inside, he was handcuffed by Brady’s pass. Brady cast his gaze skyward and then went to counsel Boyce. On the next play, he ran a terrific route and got open deep down the seam.

WHAT THEY SAID

“Whoa, we practice harrrdddd!” – Tommy Kelly, former Raider, after Monday’s practice.

 

[jmt57]

Patriots Training Camp: Hall of Fame Backdrop to Day Four | NEPatriotsDraft.com | James Christensen

-In the two-minute / no-huddle drill, Aaron Dobson, Kenbrell Thompkins and Danny Amendola lined up as the receivers with the first group. Shane Vereen was the running back.

-Purely anecdotal evidence, but Chandler Jones looks noticeably bigger this year.

-Buchanan got some work on special teams. If he can contribute there, that could help him make the team.

-Marcus Cannon has been very impressive at guard, at one point taking on a full-force Brandon Spikes and living to tell about it.

-Thompkins looked good blocking and getting off the press. Kamar Aiken also was able to get in some good blocks. Dobson was improved in this area as well.

-Dobson beat Ras-I Dowling on a double move and later beat Justin Green on a post-corner later on in practice, gaining acres of separation with a slick move. He also uncovered easily from Kyle Arrington with a slick curl route. After Amendola, Dobson looked like the best receiver on the field today.

-I saw Dobson line up in the slot a couple plays for the first time during camp. He has been almost exclusive on the line as an “X” or off the line as a “Z”.

-Boyce looked good running routes underneath again and showed off some blazing speed on the outside.

-Alfonzo Dennard continued his good overall performance, cutting in front of Dobson and breaking up a slant in 11 v 11. Dobson didn’t sell the outside move well enough – the slant was the one route that I pinpointed from his Marshall tape that I felt he really needed to work on.

-Although he’s had a good camp so far, Thompkins showed some chinks in his armor with a couple of dropped passes and a muffed punt. In 11 v 11, he failed to cut his route down which led to a pick from Aqib Talib.

-Ras-I Dowling made an impressive open field tackle on Josh Boyce, while Danny Amendola, Michael Jenkins and Aaron Dobson all were able to juke their defenders.

-Hightower did a nice job against Shane Vereen in coverage, breaking up the pass. Collins had a big chuck in coverage, knocking the running back off balance.

-Tavon Wilson was beat by an amazing catch by Michael Hoomanawanui and was victimized later by Jake Ballard who made the catch with Wilson all over him.

-Duron Harmon was guilty of overpursuit on a couple of occasions, but made up for it with a nice interception on an overthrown Ryan Mallett pass.​

Aqib Talib ends Tom Brady's night with pick-six | Jeff Howe | Boston Herald

Tally this practice in favor of the defense.

That unit made the majority of the plays during tonight's season-ticket practice inside Gillette Stadium, and cornerback Aqib Talib was active on the outside. He finished the starters' night by intercepting a Tom Brady pass and taking it up the sideline for a touchdown, and it was actually Talib's second pick on Brady of the session. Rookie safety Duron Harmon pulled down a Ryan Mallett pass on the next drill.

"When anybody gets an interception, it’s big," safety Devin McCourty said. "With Aqib getting that one and Duron getting the second one, that’s how you want to end period on defense."

McCourty then showed some of the level-headedness that has made him a captain for the last two seasons.

"I always feel like we have a good practice, but that’s why we have good coaches here," McCourty said. "They’ll come in and let us know exactly how we did. Like coach always says, it’s not always as good as you think, and it’s not as bad as you think. We’ll evaluate and see how it was."
​

 

[Joker]

The press seems to be trying to ignore Tebow's existence...every one of those blurbs ignores the one third of the reps at QB taken by Tebow...why?.. I AM puzzled.

oh..and I love this one..Hightower did a nice job against Shane Vereen in coverage, breaking up the pass.

WHAT?????????????????? Hightower on Vereen?? A total mismatch right? I saw it and was stunned at Hightower's speed...gotta love these media guys....then Hightower rushed and hit the QB...then Hightower blew up a run...then Hightower blanketed the TE...and on and on...but this guy sees something that makes your eyes bug out and he's like oh yeah,Hightower did a nice job ...ho hum...NEVER put yourself down as "just a fan". I watched Hightower as much as I could, considering and I KNOW I saw 100 times more than this scribe did, most likely because he was writing copy to get to press while practice was on. Fan reports ARE viable, when they are collated on a site like ours. I'm convinced of it.

 

[jmt57]

The press seems to be trying to ignore Tebow's existence...every one of those blurbs ignores the one third of the reps at QB taken by Tebow...why?.. I AM puzzled.

I was only quoting the highlights from those articles ... :behindsofa:



There were indeed a few mentions:

-Tim Tebow and Steve Gregory took snaps as a punt protector.

Tim Tebow and Steve Gregory took turns serving as a personal protector on the punt team. Tebow filled that role last year with the Jets.

6. Tebow works on special teams. Tim Tebow was used as a personal protector on the punt team, something he was asked to do in New York with the Jets. He also was used as a member of the scout team during other punt and punt return repetitions. It appears the Patriots are making using of his movement skills in any applicable drill.

• In addition to his usual reps at quarterback, Tim Tebow did a few different things: One, he spent some time as a punt protector, and was part of the scout team during other punt and punt return repetitions. And two, he took part in a drill where he was trying to avoid a would-be tackler (while the other quarterbacks were off on another part of the field). It will be interesting to see how he’s utilized going forward, and whether or not the coaching staff will try and take advantage of some of his other skills. Tebow did take some snaps at quarterback, and while there were no breakdowns like we saw over the first three camp practices, one play that did stand out for us was during some of the 11-on-11 work. Not sure if it was a breakdown in blocking by Kevin Haslam and R.J. Mattes or a neatly executed blitz by Jerod Mayo and Dont’a Hightower, but Tebow would have been crunched. Because he was wearing the red jersey, they pulled up at the last minute and he rolled out. But he would have been lit up.

 

[jmt57]

oh..and I love this one..Hightower did a nice job against Shane Vereen in coverage, breaking up the pass.

WHAT?????????????????? Hightower on Vereen?? A total mismatch right? I saw it and was stunned at Hightower's speed...gotta love these media guys....then Hightower rushed and hit the QB...then Hightower blew up a run...then Hightower blanketed the TE...and on and on...but this guy sees something that makes your eyes bug out and he's like oh yeah,Hightower did a nice job ...ho hum...NEVER put yourself down as "just a fan". I watched Hightower as much as I could, considering and I KNOW I saw 100 times more than this scribe did, most likely because he was writing copy to get to press while practice was on. Fan reports ARE viable, when they are collated on a site like ours. I'm convinced of it.

In his defense he did talk quite a bit about Hightower in his previous column, after Sunday's practice:

Patriots Training Camp: Versatility on Display for Day Three | NEPatriotsDraft.com | James Christensen

 

[JMC00]

IOW he misses most of Training Camp for essentially a rookie in the NFL. I think the 2013 season if it exists at all, will be a washout. 2013 will be his redshirt year.

How do you know he'll miss most of training camp? He could be back in 2 weeks and ready for the season by the end of camp.

If Armstead can go, he'll will go, there will be no redshirt season.

I recall people like Reiss thinking Dennard could have been headed to IR and a redshirt year after he missed at least half of training camp last year.

Armstead maybe at most misses a few games if he isn't ready but there is just no way Belichick intends this to be a redshirt year for Armstead.

 

[patsderoer]

Patriots Training Camp: Hall of Fame Backdrop to Day Four | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2013 NFL Draft

Jake Bequette beat Nate Solder for the second day in a row with the same outside speed move.

Unleash the Beast. :rocker:
Solder was rock solid last year. Great to see my binky Bequette owning Solder. I see great things in this season from him.

 

[Sparetire]

If we dont win it all, i know who i need to visit that let me get so hyped about our team.

 

[Kontradiction]

I know I'm a freak but I root for players wearing Patriots unis, I know, what am I thinking I should be more worried about proving how right I am all the time on an internet discussion board.

Most people, including me, are rooting for him to succeed because it's better for the team. That still doesn't mean that we should like where he was drafted. But that's a discussion that could be had in another thread.

 

[Nunchucks]

This is the first camp in a few years where the defense was ahead of the offense. Now, it is understandable why that is, but it still is an encouraging sign.

Offensive linemen are at a disadvantage when working one-on-one, they are a unit and work as a team, so when they go one-on-one, they have more ground to cover than when working as a unit.

Go Dobson!

 

[ivanvamp]

I was there tonight...some observations:

1. I didn't get to see much of the big guys mauling each other at they were off in the far corner from me. I can tell you, though, Tommy Kelly is HUGE. So is Marcus Cannon.

2. Defensive backs: Talib is smooth as silk. Arrington beat the snot out of everyone at the line in 1-on-1's, as did Dowling. Dennard looks quick to the ball - really quick to the ball. Dowling is up and down. I'm not surprised by the contradictory reports on him - it depends which play you watch. There's a ton of talent there, at times he looks like Talib, but he needs more consistency to crack the starting line up, I think.

3. TE's: the guy who looked very strong to me tonight was Fells. He ran some beautiful routes 20-yards down and Brady hit him in stride (and yeah, what Joker said on Brady...we really don't know how lucky we are). I didn't see much of Sudfield, Ford dropped a couple of balls, Hoo-man and Ballard both looked just fine.

4. RBs: you can tell when Ridley's running, even from a distance before you see his number. He is so smooth and changes direction and speed beautifully as he goes through the line. Good practice for him. I didn't see much of Vereen, but after watching tonight, I really hope Blount's got his head on straight and makes the team. I didn't realize how big he was. Cornerbacks are going to get Reche eyes if he's coming around the end at them. Yikes.

5. WRs: Aaron Dobson is for real. No, really. Play after play, he was just gliding past people, or through the seams. Very, very impressive.

Amendola's got more moves than ex-lax. You really see it on the punt returns. He'll be a match-up nightmare against many teams. But...

It wouldn't surprise me to see Amendola eased out of the slot eventually to a wide-out and Boyce put in there. There were a couple of plays right in front of us where Boyce did a basic five-and-out, except on the out, he left charred grass and confused DBs in his wake. The extra gear is as advertised, but I agree, he's still a little raw. He plays "big" - he just looks a bit thicker and stronger than the other wideouts.

KT looked good early, but seemed to run out of gas somewhere along the way. I think he blew a route and Brady got picked by Talib (and wasn't happy). Not a bad day and I think he's got a chance here, but Sims looked pretty good.

And strangely, the name you never hear, Hawkins started rough but got much better by the end and had a few catches.

Jenkins was Jenkins, nothing flashy but made a nice sideline grab of Dowling, who had good coverage.

I don't know, but just on pure talent and speed, this WR corps looks like it has a very high upside. Hope Brady has the patience to develop it without murdering a couple of the guys, a la Marino.

Thanks for the great writeup. I wonder if we are likely to see a lot of 3WR sets with Amendola and Dobson on the outside, Boyce in the slot, Gronk at TE, and Vereen in the backfield. They could cause a LOT of problems with that personnel grouping.

 

[Kontradiction]

Josh Boyce took the wrong angle on a comeback pattern and when he was off by about 2 yards to the inside, he was handcuffed by Brady’s pass. Brady cast his gaze skyward and then went to counsel Boyce. On the next play, he ran a terrific route and got open deep down the seam.

Hopefully the kid continues to learn quickly. I haven't heard too many negative reports about Boyce yet.

 

[Kontradiction]

This is the first camp in a few years where the defense was ahead of the offense. Now, it is understandable why that is, but it still is an encouraging sign.

Offensive linemen are at a disadvantage when working one-on-one, they are a unit and work as a team, so when they go one-on-one, they have more ground to cover than when working as a unit.

Go Dobson!

Not really. In 2010 and 2011, there were multiple reports of the defense coming out ahead of the offense in TC. In the first preseason game of 2010, the first string defense was successfully shutting down the Saints (just coming off of a Super Bowl victory) first string offense.

 

[Buchanty]

His followers make me crazy, too, but I'm finding that I can't root against the kid.

Well stated, I find myself in the exact same position, in fact there is much to admire in his character (beyond his Christianity) that makes up for his shortcomings as an NFL signal caller. It really cant be easy to daily face the barrage of criticism on his skill set and still come out punching. Pity he is not PS eligible.