Zach Sudfeld

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

When was the last time that we lost an UDFA? It doesn't happen often. After all, everyone else is cutting down also.

Just two years ago, the Patriots had TWO TEs claimed off waivers at cutdowns: both Lee Smith (drafted) AND Will Yeatman (UDFA).

 

[mgteich]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

I don't think my expectations are certainty; there are simply my expectation. And the vast majority of UDFA's on offense do not make the 53.

While it is true that a couple of the 2 dozen or so rookie UDFA's make the team in any given year, it is difficult to predict who will be this year's one or two or three rookie UDFA's to make the team. As I have said, IMHO, it is much easier for this to happen on defense or special teams.

I do not think that Gronk being injured makes it more likely that an rookie UDFA makes the team at TE. Gronk will likely take an inactive roster spot that might have been used for a developmental player.

What you expect to happen and what will actually happen are two different things, even though you say it with such certainty. IIRC you say this every year and every year UDFA beat out veterans for roster spots.

With Gronk injured, wouldn't that make it more likely Sudfeld makes the roster rather less likely? I don't know what you've seen from Fells or Hooman to think it would be such a tall order to replace them. If Sudfeld shows he's better than either of them he'll be on the roster, if he doesn't he won't, simple as that. Too many variables to start assigning practice squad spots in early July.

Green Ellis was productive, Bolden was at times last year, Hoyer was trusted enough to be Brady's only backup. Wendell was a very solid Center last year.

 

[Joker]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

NFL Draft Prospect Profile: Zach Sudfeld, TE Nevada | AllGreenBayPackers.Com

perspective from an NFC viewpoint...

 

[Gumby]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

NFL Draft Prospect Profile: Zach Sudfeld, TE Nevada | AllGreenBayPackers.Com

perspective from an NFC viewpoint...

NFC-MEDIA viewpoint. And we all know how well the other media ( a la Kiper) predict the draft - or view guys talent level as compared to the guys who actually do the drafting.

Sure, he had plenty of injury problems during his time at Nevada, but there are not 19 tight ends in this draft that are better than Sudfeld. You can write that in ink.

Quite the promise ('written in ink' )..... BUT amazingly IT CAME TRUE..... after all there were only 16 TEs drafted. So the writer was obviously high on Zach from looking at tape and not just measureables (combine)- career history. Which is significant when it comes to Patriots drafting as they seem to rely much more on (invest more time into) tape-game day evaluation than many of the other teams.

NOTE:
-- that almost 50% (7 of 16) were drafted IN THE LAST TWO ROUNDS
-- that although only one guy drafted was taller than Sudfeld, 50% are 6'5" or taller.

NAME POS HT WT Round SCHOOL
Zachary Sudfeld TE 6'6?" 261 - - UDFA-Pats Nevada
Michael Williams TE 6'5¾" 269 - - 7 (5-211) Alabama
Justice Cunningham TE 6'2?" 258 - - 7 (48-254) South Carolina
Chris Gragg TE 6'2¾" 244 - - 7 (16-222) Arkansas
D.C. Jefferson TE 6'5¾" 255 - - 7 (13-219) Rutgers
Nick Kasa TE 6'5?" 269 - - 6 (4-172) Colorado
Ryan Griffin TE 6'5½" 247 - - 6 (33-201) Connecticut
Mychal Rivera TE 6'3¼" 242 - - 6 (16-184) Tennessee
Luke Willson TE 6'5?" 252 - - 5 (25-158) Rice
Dion Sims TE 6'4?" 262 - - 4 (9-106) Michigan State
Levine Toilolo TE 6'8?" 260 - - 4 (36-133) Stanford
Jordan Reed TE 6'2½" 236 - - 3 (23-85) Florida
Travis Kelce TE 6'4?" 255 - - 3 (1-63) Cincinnati
Zach Ertz TE 6'5" 249 - - 2 (3-35) Stanford
Vance McDonald TE 6'4?" 267 - - 2 (23-55) Rice
Gavin Escobar TE 6'5?" 254 - - 2 (15-47) San Diego State
Tyler Eifert TE 6'5½" 250 - - 1 (21-21) Notre Dame

So a couple of things I would pull from that data are that:

--- the rest of the league is NOT trying to copy a 2 TE centric offense as much as some in media or on the board might say.

--- guys as tall as Sudfeld may get a bit of a bias AGAINST him; either cause scouts figure someone so tall may be disadvantaged from a\ leverage (from a physics-statics standpoint) and speed (harder to get that tall frame moving) standpoint.

-- Rest of league (and the Pats; albeit with the thinking they still had AH) passed on this guy 7+ times (with comp picks some teams had 8 or 9 bites). So to think he will be a wonder fill in is PURE HOMER/OPTIM-ISM (like thinking you are going to get the $1M rub-off lottery ticket every time you go to the liquor store)

In ZS's defense - as I like the vids and WOULD LOVE TO SEE HIM STICK; I would emphasize again that Pats pay attention to TAPE and GAME DAY EFFORT - so his talent level could clearly be above his draft (undraft) level.

At the end of the day if he stays healthy and shows some repoire building w/ TB (particularly running wr type routes as a TE) I think he can beat out Fells for sure and possibly Hoo-Man (who I like more than Fells). And I think he has more potential up-side than both right now, but of course they have the vet-experience X factor going for them.

As far as PS: I think there the bottom third tier of the league will look very carefully at any player the Pats-O / 49ers-O&D / Saints-O / cut loose. So expecting him to make Pats PS (if he survives til final cuts and then is cut) is IMO unlikely.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Go ahead and hope

Whether injuries or something else in the scouting reports, everybody "bet" that he wasn't a good value for the next 3-4 years, because that's what you're drafting when you draft a rookie.

Do all those bets add up to "it's a lock"? Nope. Once on an NFL field he could be productive.

Were all those bets on a single year's production? Again, nope -- the injury history could be irrelevant for a year and still come back to bite you. One-year wonders are okay but not a stellar return when you're trying to build for the long term.

Now, if you drafted with full knowledge that 2013 would be the last NFL season evah, do I think Sudfeld's draft stock would rise? I think so, because "injury concerns" could rear their head any time, or never. That being the case, by reducing the number of years played, you reduce the possibility that the injury happens in year 1.

So what we would need Sudfeld to do is make it through a year (and a post-season) healthy. He's more likely to be able to do that once than multiple times, if the problem is injuries.

Limit the question to "can he help out this year," and (given the detractions,) the possibilities look somewhat better.

That said, there are several guys who've had some success at the NFL level in camp too. So that's worth thinking about.

On a related topic... Um, anybody gonna complain the next time we see a video of Gronk dancing after we lose a big game now?

Get well soon Gronk... even if you party too much and yer made of glass... at least you didn't kill nobody

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

I'm not sure how good he could be for us. I have to see him put pads on first and compete in an actual NFL game before I can make an assessment.

 

[CheckMate]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Nobody on this board knows how good he can be for the Pats. Unless the real Belichick is hiding here.

 

[PatsFan2]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Just two years ago, the Patriots had TWO TEs claimed off waivers at cutdowns: both Lee Smith (drafted) AND Will Yeatman (UDFA).

How people forget around here if the guys shows something no waay we stash him on our PS knowing our present situation. After Gronk and may be Ballard it doesn't take much to beat out who's left. If Zach Sudfeld lives up to his patsfans.com hype he's #3 behind who's already mentioned.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

I think IF he has a great camp, he makes the top 53. Only guys ahead of him will be Gronk, Ballard and maybe Hooman. I don't think Fells makes it unless he has an incredible camp. Fells is what he is, an ok TE, Zudfeld actually has potential to be good. We carried 4 TEs last year, and I think it will be the same when we get to 53. Gronk, Ballard, Zudfeld and Hooman. If he regresses from his performances during the OTA's, we may try to sneak him to the PS.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

If Sudfield lives up to his pats-fans hype, he is headed to Canton and will start opposite Gronk.

How people forget around here if the guys shows something no waay we stash him on our PS knowing our present situation. After Gronk and may be Ballard it doesn't take much to beat out who's left. If Zach Sudfeld lives up to his patsfans.com hype he's #3 behind who's already mentioned.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

If Sudfield lives up to his pats-fans hype, he is headed to Canton and will start opposite Gronk.

So thinking he has a shot to make the roster means he is headed to Canton? Nobody has come close to saying that - pure hyperbole on your part.

He stood out during mini camp, has good physical size and speed, is considered to have good hands and be a good blocker. He needs to get stronger, work on getting separation and stay healthy, if he does, he has a chance to become a decent player.

You're guilty of overhyping Fells and Hoohoomananui yourself, saying it would be a "tall order" to beat them out of a job.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Bubble watch: Zach Sudfeld - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Interesting, Rodak gives him a 65% chance of making the roster.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Fells' record speaks for itself. If Fells is healthy, he is playing and may be our #2 TE.

Sudfield does indeed have a chance to beat out Hooman. Personally, I don't see that happening, but we'll see. I think that it is ALWAYS difficult for a rookie UDFA to beat out a veteran on offense who has been on the squad, even a JAG. A very few have succeeded, many dozens have failed.

Given that I sometimes have an impaired memory, please tell me about the rookie UDFA's who have made the patriots under Belichick on offense and have been productive team members. After we discuss these players, perhaps I will agree that it is likely that this will happen this time.

So thinking he has a shot to make the roster means he is headed to Canton? Nobody has come close to saying that - pure hyperbole on your part.

He stood out during mini camp, has good physical size and speed, is considered to have good hands and be a good blocker. He needs to get stronger, work on getting separation and stay healthy, if he does, he has a chance to become a decent player.

You're guilty of overhyping Fells and Hoohoomananui yourself, saying it would be a "tall order" to beat them out of a job.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Fells' record speaks for itself. If Fells is healthy, he is playing and may be our #2 TE.

Sudfield does indeed have a chance to beat out Hooman. Personally, I don't see that happening, but we'll see. I think that it is ALWAYS difficult for a rookie UDFA to beat out a veteran on offense who has been on the squad, even a JAG. A very few have succeeded, many dozens have failed.

Given that I sometimes have an impaired memory, please tell me about the rookie UDFA's who have made the patriots under Belichick on offense and have been productive team members. After we discuss these players, perhaps I will agree that it is likely that this will happen this time.

I'm curious as to what you think Fells' record says. Less than ideal size/speed. Been with 6 teams in 7 years. One season with more than 21 catches, 4 catches last season, played behind Hoomanawanui most of the year, even in blocking situations. To me that spells out a JAG, a very replaceable player, a player who shouldn't be making any long term plans.

Not that it relevant to this years discussion but BJGE, Bolden this past year and Hoyer the #2 QB his rookie year were UDFAS with some level of production their rookie years. You want to put a production qualification on it? How about we start with Fells' 4 catches. Do you think Sudfeld could surpass the incredible production level of 4 catches?

 

[Brady6]

Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Fells' record speaks for itself. If Fells is healthy, he is playing and may be our #2 TE.

Fells record is very good though. He has never surpassed 400 receiving yards in a season and has 8 career touchdowns. He will be 30 in September, so if it came down to Fells or Sudfeld I actually rather take a shot on the Sudfeld.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Fells was injured last year. Perhaps you would like to cut Dowling in favor of an UDFA?

I'm curious as to what you think Fells' record says. Less than ideal size/speed. Been with 6 teams in 7 years. One season with more than 21 catches, 4 catches last season, played behind Hoomanawanui most of the year, even in blocking situations. To me that spells out a JAG, a very replaceable player, a player who shouldn't be making any long term plans.

Not that it relevant to this years discussion but BJGE, Bolden this past year and Hoyer the #2 QB his rookie year were UDFAS with some level of production their rookie years. You want to put a production qualification on it? How about we start with Fells' 4 catches. Do you think Sudfeld could surpass the incredible production level of 4 catches?

 

[Brady6]

Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Fells was injured last year. Perhaps you would like to cut Dowling in favor of an UDFA?

I'm not sure that is a good comparison. Fells was an undrafted free agent who has been in the league since 2006 and has not done much catching 92 balls for 1086 over that time. He is a JAG when at his best. Dowling was the 33rd overall pick, is extremely talented and because of injuries in his first 2 seasons it's still unclear what we have in him.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you see in Fells that you think so highly of? Potential? Or do you just think the state of our TE's is so poor behind Gronk he is the best of the bad?

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Fells was injured last year. Perhaps you would like to cut Dowling in favor of an UDFA?

Sure, if the UDFA were the better player. What has Dowling ever accomplished to merit job security? Has BB never cut a CB drafted in the 2nd round within two years? (Wheatley 2008, Butler 2009) Isn't BB notorious for not caring about draft position or how the player was acquired? Isn't it what they do on the field and in practice that matters? Over half the players on the current roster were or are undrafted free agents, 44 of the 87 players, including Fells.

And Fells was well enough to play in 13 games, injured or not, his play says he's very replaceable. You speak like if only Fells was healthy then we really would have seen something. It's not exactly like if he wasn't injured we'd have another Gronk on our hands.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

fair enough

We all agree that Sudfield will be given every opportunity to make the 53. I suspect that we will be having this discussion again the week before the cuts.

Sure, if the UDFA were the better player. What has Dowling ever accomplished to merit job security? Has BB never cut a CB drafted in the 2nd round within two years? (Wheatley 2008, Butler 2009) Isn't BB notorious for not caring about draft position or how the player was acquired? Isn't it what they do on the field and in practice that matters? Over half the players on the current roster were or are undrafted free agents, 44 of the 87 players, including Fells.

And Fells was well enough to play in 13 games, injured or not, his play says he's very replaceable. You speak like if only Fells was healthy then we really would have seen something. It's not exactly like if he wasn't injured we'd have another Gronk on our hands.

 

[jmt57]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

A couple of blog entries today from espnBoston:


Bubble Watch: Zach Sudfeld | Mike Rodak

AGE: 24

2012 STATS: 13 games, 45 receptions (598 yards, 8 touchdowns) -- at Nevada

INJURY STATUS: No known injuries.

CHANCE OF MAKING 53-MAN ROSTER: 65%

WHY HE SHOULD MAKE IT: It's no mystery that the Patriots have significant uncertainty at the tight end position heading into training camp, and it's Sudfeld who could stand to benefit the most. He saw extensive practice time during OTAs and minicamp, and has an intriguing combination of size (6-foot-7, 260 pounds), mobility, and hands that could allow him to play either the 'Y' or 'F' tight end positions. Regardless of whether Rob Gronkowski begins the regular season on the active roster or PUP, the Patriots may want to keep Sudfeld on the 53-man roster as a young piece to develop at the position.

WHY HE SHOULD NOT MAKE IT: Undrafted rookies always have an uphill battle to make the team out of training camp, and one thing to keep an eye on with Sudfeld is injuries. He had six surgeries while at Nevada and the NCAA granted him a rare second medical redshirt after he broke his leg in 2011. It's too early to question his durability as an NFL player, but any injury that sidelines him during the preseason will hurt his chances of making the 53-man roster.​

Follow Up Thoughts: Zach Sudfeld | Field Yates

Zach Sudfeld, an undrafted rookie out of the University of Nevada, was hard to miss during Patriots offseason workouts, and not just because of the long, blonde hair flowing from the backside of helmet. He emerged as several tight ends shared reps in the absence of both Rob Gronkowksi and now former Patriot Aaron Hernandez, each of whom was limited this offseason as they recovered from their respective surgeries.

Sudfeld stood out as a natural pass catcher with a big frame (6-foot-7, 260 pounds) to match it. He displayed the movement skills to be an "F" tight end, something Hernandez excelled at given his athleticism.

It's short-sighted to make hardline judgements based on offseason workouts, as the sessions weren't even conducted in pads, but Sudfeld has at the very least arrived on the radar, as was evidenced by colleague Mike Rodak predicting his chances of making the 53-man roster at 65 percent in today's Bubble Watch entry.

Sudfeld was a productive player in college, catching eight touchdowns during his senior season, but his age (he's older than Rob Gronkowski) and durability (he redshirted twice in college) likely impacted his draft stock. He's now arrived in a landing spot that at the very least affords him a shot to compete for a job.

Given his injury history and the physical nature of the tight end position, we want to see Sudfeld perform with pads on and in NFL game action before taking a stronger stance on his professional outlook, but it's fair to say that, at this point, no other undrafted rookie was more noticeable during OTA's and minicamp. If Gronkowski is unable to start the season on the active roster as he recovers from back surgery, the Patriots need for contributions from their reserve tight ends will further grow. Sudfeld has a chance to make his mark among that group​