Welker was never coming to the patriots

[mgteich]

The final straw was a take or leave it offer for $10M/2 on Tuesday night.
==============================================
In 2011, the team and Welker negotiated. Kraft told Welker that a contract would be worked out with him before the start of the 2012 season.

In 2012, there was an offer, a franchise tag, and the expectation of further negotiations. Welker signed the tag. The patriots moved on, having secured what they wanted. They reportedly would have signed Welker for $16M guaranteed; Welker wanted $20M or $21M.

In 2013, all the hype was that there were considerable negotiations before free agency started and that Welker was almost a lock to stay. Obviously, that was utter nonsense. On the first day of free agency, Welker was offered 2/20 or the team would sign a player that night, player who has missed more than half his games over the past two years.
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THEN THE REAL DECISION-MAKING
Welker "knew" that he likely could get $8M a year if he accepted playing for a poor team. With an offer of $7.5M in hand from TENN, Welker went to Denver. Elway and tweets from the players convinced him how wanted he was by everyone in Denver. He received $12M guaranteed and got to play for one of the two top AFC teams.
========
WELKER'S AGENT IS GOING TO REGRET THIS DECISION
Obviously, Robert Kraft is not used to someone sticking it to him. Sure, Kraft "wanted" Welker to come back, at the patriot price, with no negotiations and no back-talk. After 3 years, Welker finally understood and moved on.

 

[RobAllan]

:bricks: :bricks: :bricks:

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I'm confused reading this... the way it's written, I can't tell the real reason why he was never coming back. Was it because Kraft didn't want him, Welker didn't want to come back, the agent messed up? Which of those are you implying was the major reason?

I think the story has been well-documented by numerous reports. Welker wanted to play for the Patriots, but obviously not badly enough. The Patriots wanted Welker, but obviously not badly enough. The agent misread the market and ultimately got his client less money. In the end, everyone came out a loser, but the Patriots got a strong replacement and Welker still joined a contender.

On the first day of free agency, Welker was offered 2/20 or the team would sign a player that night. I don't recall reading about this... was this reported? I thought the number was 2/10 (up to 16 with incentives) from the beginning.

 

[FourierSeries]

Here is the real reason Welker didn't return:

Did Wes Welker leave New England for Denver Broncos because wide receiver was embarrassed over attention brought on by hair transplant surgery? - NY Daily News

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm confused reading this... the way it's written, I can't tell the real reason why he was never coming back. Was it because Kraft didn't want him, Welker didn't want to come back, the agent messed up? Which of those are you implying was the major reason?

I think the story has been well-documented by numerous reports. Welker wanted to play for the Patriots, but obviously not badly enough. The Patriots wanted Welker, but obviously not badly enough. The agent misread the market and ultimately got his client less money. In the end, everyone came out a loser, but the Patriots got a strong replacement and Welker still joined a contender.

On the first day of free agency, Welker was offered 2/20 or the team would sign a player that night. I don't recall reading about this... was this reported? I thought the number was 2/10 (up to 16 with incentives) from the beginning.

Much of what you are claiming is "documented" is just opinions put forth as opposed to anything factual, the agent supposedly misreading the market being one prime example. If the reports are true, higher money offers were available even with this being a tight cap year.

 

[bagwell368]

The final straw was a take or leave it offer for $10M/2 on Tuesday night.
==============================================
In 2011, the team and Welker negotiated. Kraft told Welker that a contract would be worked out with him before the start of the 2012 season.

In 2012, there was an offer, a franchise tag, and the expectation of further negotiations. Welker signed the tag. The patriots moved on, having secured what they wanted. They reportedly would have signed Welker for $16M guaranteed; Welker wanted $20M or $21M.

In 2013, all the hype was that there were considerable negotiations before free agency started and that Welker was almost a lock to stay. Obviously, that was utter nonsense. On the first day of free agency, Welker was offered 2/20 or the team would sign a player that night, player who has missed more than half his games over the past two years.
======
THEN THE REAL DECISION-MAKING
Welker "knew" that he likely could get $8M a year if he accepted playing for a poor team. With an offer of $7.5M in hand from TENN, Welker went to Denver. Elway and tweets from the players convinced him how wanted he was by everyone in Denver. He received $12M guaranteed and got to play for one of the two top AFC teams.
========
WELKER'S AGENT IS GOING TO REGRET THIS DECISION
Obviously, Robert Kraft is not used to someone sticking it to him. Sure, Kraft "wanted" Welker to come back, at the patriot price, with no negotiations and no back-talk. After 3 years, Welker finally understood and moved on.

You took the time to post this - at this point in time?

I don't think your boss is getting his monies worth... my excuse is that I'm retired.

 

[mgteich]

The agent told EVERYONE that the market for Welker was $8M a year. Welker was offered $7.5M from TENN. Maybe he could have negotiated for $500K more. Perhaps another, weaker, team might have signed him for the same (the agent was under orders to only consider contenders).

So, I suppose everyone would have been fine if Welker signed with TENN for 50% or more above the patriot offer.

How exactly did the agent mis-read the market?

Welker DECIDED/WAS CONVINCED to take a below-market offer from Denver. He gave a discount to a contender not located in New England.

Much of what you are claiming is "documented" is just opinions put forth as opposed to anything factual, the agent supposedly misreading the market being one prime example.

 

[mgteich]

It is a slow day for we retirees.

It seems a good time to take a breath and re-assess.

You took the time to post this - at this point in time?

I don't think your boss is getting his monies worth... my excuse is that I'm retired.

 

[Sangreal95]

I think a telling point from Kraft was when he stated in his interview that the Patriots paid above the market value of Welker last year when they franchised him. I bet that fact was relayed to the Welker side in negotiations. He was not going to do it again.

Jodee

 

[mgteich]

I'm not trying to imply anything.

You are right. Many here will have the same information and decide differently.

Sure, Kraft wanted Welker at a significant home town discount. IMHO, that is not REALLY being serious, given that the nfl is a business, and the team's knowledge that Welker wanted a market contract. It was NOT surprising to find that out Welker was willing to play for Denver for the same amount as was offered by the pats (actually $2M more guaranteed salary).

I'm confused reading this... the way it's written, I can't tell the real reason why he was never coming back. Was it because Kraft didn't want him, Welker didn't want to come back, the agent messed up? Which of those are you implying was the major reason?

I think the story has been well-documented by numerous reports. Welker wanted to play for the Patriots, but obviously not badly enough. The Patriots wanted Welker, but obviously not badly enough. The agent misread the market and ultimately got his client less money. In the end, everyone came out a loser, but the Patriots got a strong replacement and Welker still joined a contender.

On the first day of free agency, Welker was offered 2/20 or the team would sign a player that night. I don't recall reading about this... was this reported? I thought the number was 2/10 (up to 16 with incentives) from the beginning.

 

[Rob0729]

Here is the real reason Welker didn't return:

Did Wes Welker leave New England for Denver Broncos because wide*receiver was embarrassed over attention brought on by hair transplant surgery? - NY Daily News

Another stellar, hard hitting story by the Daily News.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Well how's our 53 doing ... :typing:

 

[patfanken]

The final straw was a take or leave it offer for $10M/2 on Tuesday night.

When will this factually flawed nugget cease to be thrown about. Both Welker and his agent are sophisticated enough to understand that about 3 of the 6MM in incentives in the Pats deal were easily attainable. The rest needed to attained by having a very good year. Throwing out 2 and 10 chestnut in the hopes that it looks like the Denver deal was better is just disingenuous.
==============================================

In 2011, the team and Welker negotiated. Kraft told Welker that a contract would be worked out with him before the start of the 2012 season.

In 2012, there was an offer, a franchise tag, and the expectation of further negotiations. Welker signed the tag. The patriots moved on, having secured what they wanted. They reportedly would have signed Welker for $16M guaranteed; Welker wanted $20M or $21M.

Agreed, only I would add that while most felt that the $9.3MM Welker got was what he deserved, the Pats knew that they were well overpaying him that year....and did it gladly hoping Wes and his agent would appreciate the gesture.

In 2013, all the hype was that there were considerable negotiations before free agency started and that Welker was almost a lock to stay. Obviously, that was utter nonsense. On the first day of free agency, Welker was offered 2/20 or the team would sign a player that night, player who has missed more than half his games over the past two years.

I'm assuming the 2/20 is a typo and should be 2/10. I think you sensationalize the timeline a bit. I'm sure the Pats repeated their offer, on Tuesday night, and let Wes and agents know that they were going to have to move fast either with him or DA, so unfortunately Wes was put into a position to make an immediate decision.
======

THEN THE REAL DECISION-MAKING
Welker "knew" that he likely could get $8M a year if he accepted playing for a poor team. With an offer of $7.5M in hand from TENN, Welker went to Denver. Elway and tweets from the players convinced him how wanted he was by everyone in Denver. He received $12M guaranteed and got to play for one of the two top AFC teams.

This is just crap. The TENN offer was as incentivized as the Pats was, and essentially the same. And the thought that "bad teams" would over pay for a 32 year old slot receiver is just ludicrous. The 3 offers were all Wes had gotten to that point. Denver was by far the best fit other than NE. And why do you ignore that the "$12MM guaranteed" is NOT GUARANTEED. That he is likely to be be either gone next year, or fighting the Bronco's to keep as much of that "guaranteed money" as he can.
========

Welker's AGENT IS GOING TO REGRET THIS DECISION
Obviously, Robert Kraft is not used to someone sticking it to him. Sure, Kraft "wanted" Welker to come back, at the patriot price, with no negotiations and no back-talk. After 3 years, Welker finally understood and moved on.

NOT the Patriots' price, but EVERYONE's price. The reality was the easily makeable money was essentially the same in all 3 contracts. In fact only in the Denver Contract was there an out for the team that made it essentially a one year deal, or if you are being generous, a series of 2 one year deals

The fact is that there is a lot better argument that can be made for the fact the Denver contract was by far the worst that Welker could have signed, than can be made in reverse.

BTW- you make a very interesting point about the relationship between Dunn and the Pats, MG. This is going to bear watching, because, I don't recall the exact names,but at one time I saw a list of his Patriots clients, and I remember thinking that it was a long list and had a lot of important players on it.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

I think the pats didn't want him IMO. He shrunk in the spotlight. Get over it fanboys, he shrunk. 2011 and 2012 for sure. Welker was a regular season dude. Not the huge playoff playmaker. Which is what gronk is. And he got hurt both years. More playmakers is what we need. Guys that step up. Welker couldn't.

 

[BSR]

The agent told EVERYONE that the market for Welker was $8M a year. Welker was offered $7.5M from TENN. Maybe he could have negotiated for $500K more. Perhaps another, weaker, team might have signed him for the same (the agent was under orders to only consider contenders).

So, I suppose everyone would have been fine if Welker signed with TENN for 50% or more above the patriot offer.

How exactly did the agent mis-read the market?

Welker DECIDED/WAS CONVINCED to take a below-market offer from Denver. He gave a discount to a contender not located in New England.

Or Tenn was trying to pay above market to try to lure him there? There are two sides to a coin. We actually don't know anything about that Tenn offer. The fact of the matter is that he essentially signed a 1 year/ 6million deal with a team option for another year. That is the only fact we actually have. So if his agent was asking for $8m/year then I am not sure how you can argue that he didn't misread it. Even if the Tenn offer was real, what good was looking at his market value for teams that weren't in consideration?

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Asante Samual Part Deux, get over it. I heard he had his 'get paid' tatoo on his head, under the transplant.

 

[Gronkandez]

IMO, Welker didn't do himself any favors over the years with the Foot soldier comments and the "sometimes it's nice to stick it in Bills face once in a while" comment plus he took off something like four days during the preseason for a funeral including the one game where all the regulars played.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Pats could have avoided this years ago but didn't...leads me to believe they were planning on him leaving this year all along.

 

[PatsDeb]

There's nothing to do but move on. What's done is done.

 

[mgteich]

Wes Welker Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

When will this factually flawed nugget cease to be thrown about. Both Welker and his agent are sophisticated enough to understand that about 3 of the 6MM in incentives in the Pats deal were easily attainable. The rest needed to attained by having a very good year. Throwing out 2 and 10 chestnut in the hopes that it looks like the Denver deal was better is just disingenuous.
==============================================
Agreed, only I would add that while most felt that the $9.3MM Welker got was what he deserved, the Pats knew that they were well overpaying him that year....and did it gladly hoping Wes and his agent would appreciate the gesture.

I'm assuming the 2/20 is a typo and should be 2/10. I think you sensationalize the timeline a bit. I'm sure the Pats repeated their offer, on Tuesday night, and let Wes and agents know that they were going to have to move fast either with him or DA, so unfortunately Wes was put into a position to make an immediate decision.
======
This is just crap. The TENN offer was as incentivized as the Pats was, and essentially the same. And the thought that "bad teams" would over pay for a 32 year old slot receiver is just ludicrous. The 3 offers were all Wes had gotten to that point. Denver was by far the best fit other than NE. And why do you ignore that the "$12MM guaranteed" is NOT GUARANTEED. That he is likely to be be either gone next year, or fighting the Bronco's to keep as much of that "guaranteed money" as he can.
========
NOT the Patriots' price, but EVERYONE's price. The reality was the easily makeable money was essentially the same in all 3 contracts. In fact only in the Denver Contract was there an out for the team that made it essentially a one year deal, or if you are being generous, a series of 2 one year deals

The fact is that there is a lot better argument that can be made for the fact the Denver contract was by far the worst that Welker could have signed, than can be made in reverse.

BTW- you make a very interesting point about the relationship between Dunn and the Pats, MG. This is going to bear watching, because, I don't recall the exact names,but at one time I saw a list of his Patriots clients, and I remember thinking that it was a long list and had a lot of important players on it.