2013 Wide Receiver Watch

[Wilfork#75]

Anyone else really like Robert Woods at the end of Rd1?

He's fallen down draft boards lately. His teammate Hill took a lot of the spotlight and catches away from him.

He's undoubtedly talented, but he drops a lot of balls, gives up on routes and is a bit of a diva. Like manxman said, there are better options in the 2nd round, this is a pretty deep WR class.

 

[manxman2601]

Matt Waldman looks the WR's at the Senior Bowl. There are two that are standing out by a mile:

Markus Wheaton: Wheaton had initial trouble getting on top of the defender with his first two reps in the cone drill. He also was a little rough through his breaks on an out-and-up, but earned separation with his speed up the boundary. Unlike several of the receivers on either squad, Wheaton has a knack for getting position on a defender after his break. He made a nice catch on a slant, got strong position on a hook after his break, and for the second time in two days, displayed good technique on a deep fade where he caught the ball over his shoulder at the boundary. On five-on-sevens, Wheaton engaged in some trash talking with Washington corner Desmond Trufant, who asked the coaches to allow him to cut in line and take on the receiver. Wheaton promptly spanked Trufant on a deep streak up the right sideline with a nice move early in the route to slide outside and then buy position. Mike Glennon made the deep throw, hitting Wheaton in stride.

Quinton Patton: The receiver from Louisiana Tech was one of those cases where I saw more from him in practice than I saw from him in his games. Patton was really quick running through the gauntlet of cans and made tight turns on breaks. He practices fast. In one-on-one’s Patton made a tough catch on a deep streak up the right sideline, fighting through contact late in the route. The defensive back pushed Patton late and the receiver managed to control his balance enough to get additional separation as he turned back to the ball and made the catch while falling backwards, losing his helmet in the process – one of the most impressive athletic displays among the receivers this week. Patton earned praise form the coaching staff in scrimmages for working back to the football and taking good position on a slant. He also was the on the receiving end of the most impressive throw I saw today (from Tyler Wilson – more on that later), catching a dig in stride.

Senior Bowl: Day Two Skill Player Notables | The Rookie Scouting Portfolio

 

[EwanSellars]

my top 2 receivers in the draft especially Quinton Patton

 

[ctpatsfan77]

He's undoubtedly talented, but he drops a lot of balls, gives up on routes and is a bit of a diva. Like manxman said, there are better options in the 2nd round, this is a pretty deep WR class.

I'm starting to get a feel for why BB just doesn't like USC players very much (Cassel notwithstanding). . . .

 

[MrNathanDrake]

He's undoubtedly talented, but he drops a lot of balls, gives up on routes and is a bit of a diva. Like manxman said, there are better options in the 2nd round, this is a pretty deep WR class.

A little BB Humble Pie could get that sorted out.

And having a HOF QB screaming at him in practice will knock his Diva attitude down a couple notches.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

I'm surprised nobody is talking about Cobi Hamilton from Arkansas. He's 6'2'' or 6'3'' and roughly 210lbs.

Have you seen the Senior Bowl weigh ins ?


These guys are rarely as big as their billed height and weight.


Cobi Hamilton only measured in at 6'1, 199lbs.

 

[ay-yo]

Have you seen the Senior Bowl weigh ins ?


These guys are rarely as big as their billed height and weight.


Cobi Hamilton only measured in at 6'1, 199lbs.

Well that's certainly disappointing but not a reason to take him off your draft board.

 

[manxman2601]

Can we draft this guy please?

Marshall Thundering Herd - Moss 90yd TD vs Army 1997 - YouTube

Love the hurdle!

 

[Wilfork#75]

Can we draft this guy please?

Marshall Thundering Herd - Moss 90yd TD vs Army 1997 - YouTube

Love the hurdle!

This is probably the closest thing you are going to find to Randy Moss in this draft

Ultimate Justin Hunter Highlights - YouTube

 

[manxman2601]

This is probably the closest thing you are going to find to Randy Moss in this draft

Ultimate Justin Hunter Highlights - YouTube

Went off him when he had a crucial drop in the 'Bama game.

 

[Off The Grid]

A little BB Humble Pie could get that sorted out.

And having a HOF QB screaming at him in practice will knock his Diva attitude down a couple notches.

Brady's job is demanding enough without babysitting.

Pass.

 

[mayoclinic]

Went off him when he had a crucial drop in the 'Bama game.

Based on 1 drop? Then I assume you "went off" Welker based on his crucial drops in the last 2 SBs?

Show me one WR who hasn't had a crucial drop in a big game. Now, admittedly, if he has hands of stone, that's a different issue.

 

[mayoclinic]

Brady's job is demanding enough without babysitting.

Pass.

We could probably get Giz at a decent rate.

 

[manxman2601]

Based on 1 drop? Then I assume you "went off" Welker based on his crucial drops in the last 2 SBs?

Show me one WR who hasn't had a crucial drop in a big game. Now, admittedly, if he has hands of stone, that's a different issue.

Aren't you the one saying we should move on from Welker?

This was probably the biggest catch of his career and he muffed it. Yes that is part of how I evaluate a prospect just like it affected my view of Stephen Hill last year when I saw him drop a deep pass when wide open for a TD.

But it wasn't based just on that one drop. Here's what his HC had to say about him:

“First, it has to happen with more consistency in practice. Justin has got to understand that playing receiver is not always clean and easy [and] that there’s a little grit that you have to do to get open. You’re going to have to get hit. Good receivers are going to make those kind of plays no matter what the circumstance. He’s not there yet. We all want to talk about how he’s this first-round pick and the No.1 pick in the draft and he can be that, but he has never performed to that standard in my opinion. And he knows that. So he needs to focus on his development and what does he do well, what are some things that we have got to keep building on, and how do we get there. He’s got great character, it’s important to him, and he’s got a lot of special qualities as a wide out. But being able to go produce out there week after week is what matters.”

WR Justin Hunter: Unvarnished Moss | The Rookie Scouting Portfolio

It's hard enough for a drafted WR to succeed in our offense as it is. A possibly unmotivated entitled WR has no chance. Hunter has everything tangible you want from a WR but for the Patriots, the intangibles are just as important.

Also, Hunter had four 100 yard games this year. They were against Georgia State, Akron, Troy and Missouri. He's got the size and athleticism to pile on against smaller teams but when facing good NFL-like defenses:5 catches against Florida, 3 v Georgia, 2 v Miss. State, 4 v Alabama. Hardly a dominating performance.


So the answer is no, I'm not judging him on one catch. Let's call it confirming some already present doubts.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Aren't you the one saying we should move on from Welker?

This was probably the biggest catch of his career and he muffed it. Yes that is part of how I evaluate a prospect just like it affected my view of Stephen Hill last year when I saw him drop a deep pass when wide open for a TD.

But it wasn't based just on that one drop. Here's what his HC had to say about him:

“First, it has to happen with more consistency in practice. Justin has got to understand that playing receiver is not always clean and easy [and] that there’s a little grit that you have to do to get open. You’re going to have to get hit. Good receivers are going to make those kind of plays no matter what the circumstance. He’s not there yet. We all want to talk about how he’s this first-round pick and the No.1 pick in the draft and he can be that, but he has never performed to that standard in my opinion. And he knows that. So he needs to focus on his development and what does he do well, what are some things that we have got to keep building on, and how do we get there. He’s got great character, it’s important to him, and he’s got a lot of special qualities as a wide out. But being able to go produce out there week after week is what matters.”

WR Justin Hunter: Unvarnished Moss | The Rookie Scouting Portfolio

It's hard enough for a drafted WR to succeed in our offense as it is. A possibly unmotivated entitled WR has no chance. Hunter has everything tangible you want from a WR but for the Patriots, the intangibles are just as important.

Also, Hunter had four 100 yard games this year. They were against Georgia State, Akron, Troy and Missouri. He's got the size and athleticism to pile on against smaller teams but when facing good NFL-like defenses:5 catches against Florida, 3 v Georgia, 2 v Miss. State, 4 v Alabama. Hardly a dominating performance.


So the answer is no, I'm not judging him on one catch. Let's call it confirming some already present doubts.

I don't think there is any doubt that Hunter has his issues and areas that need to be worked on. But if he didn't have those he would a top 5 pick because he is probably the most athletically gifted WR since Calvin Johnson. He has certainly had a few drops which needs to be worked on, most of which are concentration issues not talent because he actually has fantastic ball skills. He also needs to toughen up a bit and get more physical, and I think that will come with more size that he adds to his frame as well as gaining more confidence in his knee after missing most 2011 through injury. He is by no means a sure thing (nobody is), but his upside is enormous.

The thing that would make me comfortable taking a chance on him in the 2nd round is this part.

He’s got great character, it’s important to him, and he’s got a lot of special qualities as a wide out.

He is still very young and relatively inexperienced after missing so much time with that knee injury. And they say you don't get back to 100% for 12-18 months after major knee surgery, so there is still so much room for improvement. I also think moving from a Tennessee team that has had its issues over the past few seasons into a pro environment, greater focus on football and more overall professionalism will do him the world of good. I am a Justin Hunter fan, but I can see his flaws. But those flaws are the only reason we even have a shot at him, and I think they can be corrected.

 

[mayoclinic]

Aren't you the one saying we should move on from Welker?

This was probably the biggest catch of his career and he muffed it. Yes that is part of how I evaluate a prospect just like it affected my view of Stephen Hill last year when I saw him drop a deep pass when wide open for a TD.

But it wasn't based just on that one drop. Here's what his HC had to say about him:

“First, it has to happen with more consistency in practice. Justin has got to understand that playing receiver is not always clean and easy [and] that there’s a little grit that you have to do to get open. You’re going to have to get hit. Good receivers are going to make those kind of plays no matter what the circumstance. He’s not there yet. We all want to talk about how he’s this first-round pick and the No.1 pick in the draft and he can be that, but he has never performed to that standard in my opinion. And he knows that. So he needs to focus on his development and what does he do well, what are some things that we have got to keep building on, and how do we get there. He’s got great character, it’s important to him, and he’s got a lot of special qualities as a wide out. But being able to go produce out there week after week is what matters.”

WR Justin Hunter: Unvarnished Moss | The Rookie Scouting Portfolio

It's hard enough for a drafted WR to succeed in our offense as it is. A possibly unmotivated entitled WR has no chance. Hunter has everything tangible you want from a WR but for the Patriots, the intangibles are just as important.

Also, Hunter had four 100 yard games this year. They were against Georgia State, Akron, Troy and Missouri. He's got the size and athleticism to pile on against smaller teams but when facing good NFL-like defenses:5 catches against Florida, 3 v Georgia, 2 v Miss. State, 4 v Alabama. Hardly a dominating performance.

So the answer is no, I'm not judging him on one catch. Let's call it confirming some already present doubts.

And that's a good answer. If Hunter is an "unmotivated entitled WR" I don't want him. Certainly something that needs to be closely looked into. I'm still very intrigued, but I think the issue you bring up is an important one.

I don't think there is any doubt that Hunter has his issues and areas that need to be worked on. But if he didn't have those he would a top 5 pick because he is probably the most athletically gifted WR since Calvin Johnson. He has certainly had a few drops which needs to be worked on, most of which are concentration issues not talent because he actually has fantastic ball skills. He also needs to toughen up a bit and get more physical, and I think that will come with more size that he adds to his frame as well as gaining more confidence in his knee after missing most 2011 through injury. He is by no means a sure thing (nobody is), but his upside is enormous.

The thing that would make me comfortable taking a chance on him in the 2nd round is this part

He is still very young and relatively inexperienced after missing so much time with that knee injury. And they say you don't get back to 100% for 12-18 months after major knee surgery, so there is still so much room for improvement. I also think moving from a Tennessee team that has had its issues over the past few seasons into a pro environment, greater focus on football and more overall professionalism will do him the world of good. I am a Justin Hunter fan, but I can see his flaws. But those flaws are the only reason we even have a shot at him, and I think they can be corrected.

Again. the talent is intriguing, the issues are concerning. This kid will have to be evaluated very carefully.

 

[manxman2601]

I don't think there is any doubt that Hunter has his issues and areas that need to be worked on. But if he didn't have those he would a top 5 pick because he is probably the most athletically gifted WR since Calvin Johnson. He has certainly had a few drops which needs to be worked on, most of which are concentration issues not talent because he actually has fantastic ball skills. He also needs to toughen up a bit and get more physical, and I think that will come with more size that he adds to his frame as well as gaining more confidence in his knee after missing most 2011 through injury. He is by no means a sure thing (nobody is), but his upside is enormous.

The thing that would make me comfortable taking a chance on him in the 2nd round is this part.



He is still very young and relatively inexperienced after missing so much time with that knee injury. And they say you don't get back to 100% for 12-18 months after major knee surgery, so there is still so much room for improvement. I also think moving from a Tennessee team that has had its issues over the past few seasons into a pro environment, greater focus on football and more overall professionalism will do him the world of good. I am a Justin Hunter fan, but I can see his flaws. But those flaws are the only reason we even have a shot at him, and I think they can be corrected.

I do see what you and Mayo see in him, I really do. But this last part that I bolded is the crux for me.

I've alluded to it before. Is it better to take a player who is falling for reasons other than injury or better take a prospect who appears to be on the rise? It's a philosophical approach to the draft. Taking a falling player like Hunter is certainly a way to get value. I agree with you, a perfect Justin Hunter is a top 5 guy. But if all those teams are passing on him because of his flaws, why do we think he'd be good for the Pats? The flaws will still be there. We're either putting a lot of faith in our locker room and coaching or we're putting a lot of faith in luck. On the other hand, a player on the rise is doing so because of discovered positives. Perhaps a more detailed analysis of game tape shows how good he really is, he demonstrates plus athletic prowess, a small schooler performs well when elevated to a higher level in a Bowl game. Sometimes, this can let you do (combine stars for example), but generally the player is rising for positive reasons.

It's a philosophical issue and both arguments have merits. The risky value approach of drafting a faller or taking the player who has exceeded your earlier expectations. Personally I think the latter approach is more likely to find the more productive player. For example, I'm glad we drafted 'riser' Chandler Jones rather than 'faller' Courtney Upshaw.

 

[Wilfork#75]

I do see what you and Mayo see in him, I really do. But this last part that I bolded is the crux for me.

I've alluded to it before. Is it better to take a player who is falling for reasons other than injury or better take a prospect who appears to be on the rise? It's a philosophical approach to the draft. Taking a falling player like Hunter is certainly a way to get value. I agree with you, a perfect Justin Hunter is a top 5 guy. But if all those teams are passing on him because of his flaws, why do we think he'd be good for the Pats? The flaws will still be there. We're either putting a lot of faith in our locker room and coaching or we're putting a lot of faith in luck. On the other hand, a player on the rise is doing so because of discovered positives. Perhaps a more detailed analysis of game tape shows how good he really is, he demonstrates plus athletic prowess, a small schooler performs well when elevated to a higher level in a Bowl game. Sometimes, this can let you do (combine stars for example), but generally the player is rising for positive reasons.

It's a philosophical issue and both arguments have merits. The risky value approach of drafting a faller or taking the player who has exceeded your earlier expectations. Personally I think the latter approach is more likely to find the more productive player. For example, I'm glad we drafted 'riser' Chandler Jones rather than 'faller' Courtney Upshaw.

I don't think its putting faith in the locker room or even that much into coaching, I think its just the fact that he is a 21 year old kid, who hasn't played a whole lot of football in the past few years because of injury and he is only scratching the surface of what he is capable of. He is a year behind where he should be development wise because of the injury, and I think a lot of the things mentioned by his HC are a product of being a young kid that hasn't learnt the right way to do things yet. And I think a lot of that could be because of all the turmoil surrounding the Tennessee program over the past few years. To me he simply isn't polished yet, but I don't think its a great stretch to think that over the next few seasons he will step up into that top quality WR. He could have used another year at Tennessee to polish areas of his game, but I don't think he is quite as raw as that article pointed out (to say he is more raw that Stephen Hill was is just ridiculous to me).

I also don't read into Dooley's comments quite as much as you do. I don't see where he is entitled or unmotivated, I think its simply his HC being honest that he isn't living up to the high expectations (and the expectations for Hunter were huge). I don't think Hunter's flaws have anything to do with talent or character, he is simply just raw and still in the early stages of development. I am normally not one for the athlete over the football player, especially at WR (I wasn't a fan of Hill at all last year), but I have seen what Hunter is capable of and believe he is special.

 

[Avenger]

Markus Wheaton in the second and Luke Tasker in the seventh

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Markus Wheaton in the second and Luke Tasker in the seventh

I love Tasker! I think Wheaton might to too light to be ideal. Patton is my number 1 WR right now.